So I have a few questions about the wonderful creature that inspires fear into the hearts of the most stalwart of adventurers. I would love to hear about the various amazing/horrifying Lichs you lovely people have dealt with over the years? Either as a player or a GM. How were they introduced? Was it a special ability that made them terrifying or just luck?
What sort of guards should a Lich have? Armies, a well trained personal bodyguard, be part of a group of Liches, a well stocked dungon/castle, ect?
Is there a certain level of spells a caster must be at to become a Lich?
Is there any way for martial with UMD to fake it and become a Lich?
Could I use a Bag of Holding for the phylactery? Could the Lich leave the bag with all the things it wanted from the bag?
Thank you in advance
Is there a certain level of spells a caster must be at to become a Lich?
No. The only requirement is that you have to have a caster level of 11th and be able to cast spells. A specific level of spell is not required.
Is there any way for martial with UMD to fake it and become a Lich?
No. Martials may instead become graveknights.
Could I use a Bag of Holding for the phylactery?
While the most common phylactery is a small box, the description does say other forms are possible. It doesn't say anything about using another magic item, however. That would seem to be up to the GM to make a ruling.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Liches be crazy.
A lich could have an army, but the classic stereotype probably calls for a bunch of skeletons, zombies, ghouls and other forms of corporeal undead. He may have some lieutenants who are more powerful skeletal warriors, or what have you.
I don't know if there is any set formula, but I'd expect one to be able to cast 6th level spells, at a minimum. Liches are always depicted as being fairly powerful spellcasters whose ambition drives them to do unspeakable things in their quest for immortality.
I don't think martial characters can do it. However, I do not recall where skeletal warriors, death knights, etc. come from. *Searches* Hmm...looks like Death Knights are made undead by someone (or some *thing*) other than themselves.
While a lich could certainly place the phylactery *inside* a Bag of Holding, I don't think it would be a good choice for the bag itself to *be* the phylactery. Seems like it would be too fragile.
1) As far as guards go, Liches generally have a fair amount of undead. They tend to be necromancers (at least from my perception), allowing them a wide variety of minions. Extremely high-level necromancers may bind their former enemies, or raise something like dragons or various other creatures.
2) By the rules, you need to be an 11th level caster in order to become a Lich, though DMs are free to break this rule if they see fit.
3) By the rules, no. Creating a phylactery requires you to be a caster. Graveknights are the approximate martial comparison, though that's a bit more risky than becoming a Lich.
4) Yes and yes.
I've only played against one Lich. He was introduced after we'd discovered that a town had been overrun by Devils. He's played very LE, willing to work with us so long as we are useful to him. We haven't fought him directly yet, as we'd probably get utterly destroyed.
Each lich is different so there is no single answer to what type of minions they have. Look at what the lich was before he became a lich and that will give you the idea of what kind of minions they will have. Some may not even have minions at all.
Martial characters don’t really get a lot out of becoming a lich. A Graveknight is a much better template for a martial character.
You can use anything you want for your phylactery, but for the most part it is usually hidden somewhere that is difficult to find. If the lich is smart he has created a secret hidden lair far away from his normal lair and stores the phylactery there. This hidden lair will have the equipment he needs to be functional in the lair. If the lich is able to teleport it can be a place that can only be reached by teleportation. Another idea is to create a demi plane and keep the phylactery there. In either case the lich will probably have some backup magic items for it to use. Maybe not as strong as the ones it normally uses, but better than nothing.
I haven't usually found them to be too deadly, just freakin hard to kill for good.
Most of the lichdom stuff they get is defensive in nature or help melee combat. So since they always seem to be made from an arcane necromancer, it doesn't help them as much as it seems like it would when you look at the CR and write-up.
I think if someone made a lich that was a melee cleric or warpriest before becoming a lich it could be horrifically dangerous. Haven't seen one though.
|
Yeah Lichs vary, some are very aggressive, some are just obsessed with collecting knowledge and willing to work with adventurers, some are tyrants, some are loners. Still at the end of the day, they are still undead, so don't make them too nice, or at least think of someone had hundred of years to make all kind of contingencies for his plans.
Liches be crazy.
** spoiler omitted **
DANG it, man, you beat me to it!
(Now if only I had time to link the one poster's name, I wouldn't look like a chump/Johnny-come-lately... wait-)
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You know.. you could get around the caster level requirements for the phylactery by using the
Master Craftsman feat. A racial spell like ability qualifies for both the ability to cast spells and the caster level requirement, too.
Seems like a level 11 tiefling or aasimar fighter with high ranks in Craft could qualify to become a lich.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
When creating your own lich npc it's important to consider why and how the lich became one. That will help answer a lot of your other questions about minions and what kind of phylactery the character might use.
Unlike most other undead, a lich typically becomes one through the conscious choice of a mid-high level spellcaster. Also unlike other undead, like the ghoul or vampire, the lich doesn't feed on the living to sustain itself. So you have a character who is giving up mortality and physical pleasures, usually to achieve some goal. Becoming a lich is a means to an end. These individuals are at a minimum driven and often obsessed.
If your sole purpose is to stay alive, then everything that might kill you becomes a threat, so this character is likely very paranoid. That character is going to maximize the defenses of the lair, and probably eschew intelligent minions since they might betray it. Likely living in solitude with the phylactery as tough to break and hard to reach as possible. A cube of adamantite inscribed with strange glyphs might be appropriate.
If the purpose is to gain more magic, than maybe the character likes solitude but wants to be near an arcane university, exercising greater or lesser amounts of secrecy depending on the tolerance of the locals. The character might have apprentices (living or undead). the phylactery might be a symbol of magical power, like an amulet or ring.
A lich who dreams of conquest will have the benefit of long term planning and will need a more public lair, since they would need a symbol of authority. This lich might have range of mortal guardians with more powerful undead and constructs guarding the inner chambers depending on if it's keeping its nature a secret. The phylactery might be a crown or scepter.
As for why they're scary, part of it is they're mechanically usually strong spellcasters with a lot of immunities due to being undead. But the main reason I find them scary is they have the ability to be impossibly patient and hard to kill. You can destroy a lich a dozen times, but if you don't find the phylactery, it can keep coming back. With extra patience, the lich might study the PCs who wronged it for years, learning their weaknesses, loved ones, hopes and dreams, and strike when they're most vulnerable. The lich doesn't need to feed or rest. It can devote itself entirely to destroying the PCs.
Or maybe it doesn't care. It lets the PCs destroy its lair and its body, and stays hidden for decades or centuries, only to return to terrorize the next generation and the PCs simply die of old age, believing their enemy vanquished. For the lich it's just extra time to work on new spells or craft magic items without interruption.
Best of luck with your NPC creation :)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I wrote this for another Lich thread. It came from my musings on what a Bard Lich would be like.
You do not want to mess with charisma-based Lichs...
You people are awesome! I am running an undead heavy campaign and want to familiarize myself with this creature. The only phylactery I have seen in game is an adamantine coffin. I want the phylactery to be destroyable but I want the party to have to work for it. Unfortunately for me the party I am GMing for have decades of experience and I cant really ask them without giving away the plot. You all have given me some ideas. Now I don't mean for this to sound greedy or demanding but keep the ideas coming.
Ah and one more question. Which class do you think makes the most dangerous Lich?
Thank you all
I wrote this for another Lich thread. It came from my musings on what a Bard Lich would be like.
You do not want to mess with charisma-based Lichs...
I will look though this because I love bards! And the look on some of my groups faces when the Lich starts to sing would be priceless. This is a class I plan to make into a Lich but haven't gotten around to it yet.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Most dangerous Lich varies, but generally I'd say a Charisma-based class tends to be more deadly. Sorcerers, Skalds, Bards, and Oracles are the Charisma-based classes, and going Oracle can give you more synergy for Charisma.
However, the stereotypical Wizard is also very strong (thanks to the ability to prepare spells, and Wizards would be able to gather a large amount of spells.) I'd say that Sorcerers could possibly be very difficult to face as well though.
As well, it's possible for you to create a Gish-type mage, who can utilize the paralyzing touch a bit. it's also possible that you could make an Antipaladin Lich as well, who can be very deadly thanks to the Charisma synergy.
|
~~Quick note I have skimmed through this thread an not read each post in its entirety~~
That said, I love the Lich template for everything it does. The touch attack is great as a Lich has basically a save or die touch attack with no limit, conductive weapons are excellent for them. Cleric and Oracles are often forgotten when it comes to Liches but can make great ones especially the Oracle with a D8 HD, excellent Charisma and a 3/4th attack bonus it can make a very good "bad touch" caster.
That said, with all that a spell caster can do with the Lich his best asset is the phylactery. with that one ability death became a minor setback, if you kill the Lich he is down for about a week (1-10 days) after that he comes back full power and finds his killers. Depending on how well hidden a Phylactery is he may never be destroyed. As I mentioned in another thread use Interplanetary teleport and put it on the moon or some other uninhabitable planet in lead box with as many abjurations as possible. NEVER carry it on your person. it may seem cool to have it be your holy symbol or arcane bond but that is how adventures take it and break it.
I have been able to play as a Lich character before and it was very fun, I was a sorcerer so I had HP. I used illusions to hide myself when I did not want to be known and revealed my true form to terrify people.
Other comments:
Minions: undead are a common choice but not needed, anything that does not breath can be good, have his dungeon be airless and force adventures to work around that.
As for an army, that may be too much because now he has drawn a lot of attention to himself (though that could be his plan) On the other hand An army can be very helpful in acquiring objects, have the army invade, make the best distraction available then use magic to get what you want (An invasion can make guards leave their post watching vaults)
look at Xykon from "Order of the Stick" Its a silly comic but he is seriously a "good" Lich, ruthless, powerful, smart when he wants to be, and makes a great evil villain monolog on power
You need 11th caster level to become a Lich.
Master craftsman feat can probably be used to cheat your way into Lichdom but Grave knight is generally a better option.
Bags of Holding could be used as a Phylacteries holding spot without any problem, there is no limit on the soul even across planar boundaries.
Liches are my favorite undead and probably monster overall so I tend to make my Lich encounters with more effort than others causing my players to be a bit worried when facing one.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Undead Hanson... If I wasn't going the more serious route I would do this because hilarity. And I intend to use the Alchemist because they are amazing.
The main bad guys are from the Whispering Way. Which a faction/cult thing that belives the best state to be in is undead. Their utopia would be an undead world. And that is a very vague description of this cult. I know that they play a big part in the country of Ulstava and are in the Carrion Crown AP. So lots of Vampires, Liches, and various other undead horrors. So many of them have a faction backing them but it has been stated I just don't remember where I read it that this group doesn't always work together. They have a similar goal and that is the main factor keeping them together, a vision of an undead world. Many of these people fancy themselves the leader when their really isn't one. Lots of little groups, some followers of the Whispering Tyrant, and some followers of Urgathoa.
One of the most terrifying encounters I've had with a Lich was in a Pathinder AP. I'm not going to say which one to avoid spoilers, but this Lich was the final boss of a dungeon and as far as I'm aware is always ready for the PC's thanks to scrying and other abilities. This boss, and his dungeon, is responsible for the most TPKs out of any Pathfinder campaign/game I have ever played. I have played this particular AP multiple times obviously, and its gotten to the point where I dread reaching the particular book of the AP that he appears in.
Other than that, another encounter with a Lich that I enjoyed but was also quite scary wasn't in a tabletop game, but was in a video game based off D&D 3.5 called Dark Alliance 2. It was a boss fight where you are placed in a mausoleum filled with a maze-like pattern of shelves, and all over the shelves are urns. You fight and are pursued by a very powerful Lich boss throughout this maze, and he can teleport and phase through the shelves to pursue you. You have to not only defend yourself from him but also go through smashing as many of the urns as you can, because a single one that is randomly determined is his phylactery, which is the key to winning the encounter.
A spellcaster is always a pretty serious boss, combine that with sentient undead needs special circumstances to die, and a touch that can paralyze you... Liches are infamous for a reason!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Something worth noting...Bloodragers are full casters so...you can make bloodragers liches, just saying at level 11.
That just might be truly awe-ful to encounter
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
3.5 Had a cool book for fluff for the undead
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libris_Mortis
Remember, the scariest thing in any adventure is a prepared enemy. And liches (as previously mentioned) are likely *very* prepared. Think like a PC - if you knew for a fact if a group of people whose life purpose is to destroy your kind, and you knew they were coming for you, what would you do?
Creating magical items
Creating mundane traps (lead is wonderful)
Researching spells that harm others uniquely
Having minions who do the dirty work for you - not created undead, but those who work for you for money/power/fear...etc.
My favorite lich (well, demilich) encounter was when we were playing 100th level characters in the Throne of Bloodstone module. Well, I decided to play a solar instead of a character. At one point we were traveling through caverns in the abyss and came upon a demilich that floated up and threatened us. I created a bucket out of thin air, turned on my antimagic field, walked up to the skull, stuck the bucket over it, turned off my antimagic field, stone shaped a hole in the wall, and placed the skull in the bucket in the wall and stone shaped it shut. We still laugh about it.
I used a lich as a primary benefactor in one Skullport campaign. I kept him mysterious and veiled and tried to hide his true motivations from the PCs he hired to do odd jobs. It worked out quite well for flavor.
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Although you can handwave it, a Lich needs money to fund it's research and preparations, same as anyone. That said, it would be interesting to see a Lich that operated a magic item shop front but built in hidden command words to every item they crafted and sold that would deactivate the item, provided they recognized their own handiwork.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Something worth noting...Bloodragers are full casters so...you can make bloodragers liches, just saying at level 11.That just might be truly awe-ful to encounter
Keep in mind that undead cannot benefit from morale bonuses, which are what rage grants.
You're much better off using an antipaladin, or a magus if you prefer.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Although you can handwave it, a Lich needs money to fund it's research and preparations, same as anyone. That said, it would be interesting to see a Lich that operated a magic item shop front but built in hidden command words to every item they crafted and sold that would deactivate the item, provided they recognized their own handiwork.
I've been brainstorming an idea for a campaign that takes the "magic mart" syndrome to the absolute extreme, making Magic Mart a massive world-spanning supercorp run by a powerful caster who has simulacrums running all of his stores (so it appears that every Magic Mart is run by the same guy named Magic Mart).
Having the real Magic Mart be a lich would be perfect.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hmm.
If you want a terrifying lich I would suggest looking into some of the necromancer builds people have come up with for the oracle, and make them into liches.
A master summoner would be pretty terrifying as well.
An Occultist Arcanist would also work.
Other interesting undead to use
Curst (Monsters of Faerun, Lost Empires of Faerun)
Curst are people who were hit with a specific combination of spells, a specific variety of curse, or died to magic in a wild magi zone (%). They're somewhat mad (5% chance every 10 minutes of doing something od and irrationally for 1d6 rounds), are immune to channeling/turning, immune to cold and fire, have regeneration, and can't be killed by damage (if brought to -300, they will slowly regenerate until they're back up again, from a pile of goop if necessary).
Entropic Reaper (Libris Mortis)
An undead planeshifting grim reaper who has similar effets on a reature to a chaos beast. Scary stuff.
Evolved Undead (Libris Mortis)
Creature advancement tailored specifically for undead creatures.
Gravetouched Ghoul (Libris Mortis)
Another variety of Ghoul.
Necropolitan (Libris Mortis)
A low powered intelligent undead that functions much like a regular living creature. I would expect things like this to be fairly common in Ustalav.
Swarm Shifter (Libris Mortis)
A template so that your mummy can turn into a swarm of scarabs, and the like. Kindof neat.
Cryptspawn (Magic of Faerun, Lost Empires of Faerun)
Cryptspawn have the undead type, scaling natural armor, an intimidate bonus, and channel resistance, and are created by being the willing target of the 7th level cleric(Bane) spell "Undeath After Death". Personally I open the spell up beyond the church of bane, because it's interesting.
Dracolich (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Draconomicon)
I can't forget this one. you can have your dragon also be a lich. What's not to love.
Alhoon (Monsters of Faerun, Lords of Madness)
Alhoon's are also awesome, because a lich that is a mindflayer is a terrifying prospect.
Nonevil Liches (Monsters of Faerun)
Baelnorn can be very interesting NPCs. Baelnorn are nonevil elven liches who serves as heads of a household, protect their realm, guard ancient secrets and libraries, or research powerful magic for their people. Baelnorns can astrally project and cast spells from said projection (and the projection has a str of 1, so it can turn pages), can turn undead/channel energy as a cleric of their level, do not have a fear aura, do not use phylacteries (but do use clones like other wizards) and of course, do not radiate evil.
Archliches are another form of good lich, immune to channeling/turning from good and neutral clerics, that dont radiate evil, can raise dead at will as a sorcerer of their character level, and can channel energy/turn undead.
Something worth noting...Bloodragers are full casters so...you can make bloodragers liches, just saying at level 11.
I like the way you mind works. I will need to look into that class.
Although you can handwave it, a Lich needs money to fund it's research and preparations, same as anyone. That said, it would be interesting to see a Lich that operated a magic item shop front but built in hidden command words to every item they crafted and sold that would deactivate the item, provided they recognized their own handiwork.
That is delightfully evil and i respect that. And it would be a lot of paperwork but the looks on their faces would be hilarious. Though this is a trick i think you can only play once.
Darkholme that is a list of awesome and i like it. I will need to find this Libris Mortis and hopefully it snit to hard to convert to pathfinder. A book of evil undead is really something i need. thank you
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hmm. 3.5 stuff isn't particularly hard to convert to Pathfinder. Basically just calculate CMB/CMD and you can run them. You will find that 3.5 monsters are easier to beat, and 3.5 classes are underwhelming.
FYI, I would advise against a hard copy of libris mortis. Only about 1/4 the book is monsters/templates. The other half consists of 20 pages of fluff, 8 pages of feats, 10 pages of 3.5 undead monster classes (I would advise against trying to use these in PF), 17 pages of prestige classes (again, advise against in most cases, or at least make clear to your players they are likely less powerful and a bit less fun), 13 pages of spells, 6 pages of equipment, the 51 pages of monsters, and then 54 pages of suggestions for undead-themed games.
Of the monsters in the book, I'd probably consider using about 10 of them; I think I listed most of the good ones up-thread.
The advice section is pretty good.
I'd advise heading over to DriveThru, and picking up the PDF for $15.
That way you can copy paste the monster entries you want into MS word, rearrange everything into the pathfinder format you're used to, and convert everything (either quick or thorough), copy the illustration from the book (or grab it of google), and get the ones you like printed out and put them in a binder.
Also, FYI, Level Adjustments and XP costs on spells were not very good ideas, and that's why they're not in Pathfinder (don't try to bring them back).
Something worth noting...Bloodragers are full casters so...you can make bloodragers liches, just saying at level 11.That just might be truly awe-ful to encounterKeep in mind that undead cannot benefit from morale bonuses, which are what rage grants.
You're much better off using an antipaladin, or a magus if you prefer.
I didn't think of that. Good to know.
..
...anyone. That said, it would be interesting to see a Lich that operated a magic item shop front but built in hidden command words to every item they crafted and sold that would deactivate the item, provided they recognized their own handiwork.I've been brainstorming an idea for a campaign that takes the "magic mart" syndrome to the absolute extreme, making Magic Mart a massive world-spanning supercorp run by a powerful caster who has simulacrums running all of his stores (so it appears that every Magic Mart is run by the same guy named Magic Mart).
Having the real Magic Mart be a lich would be perfect.
Wow! It's too late to add to the current campaign, but this is happening next campaign I start.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Since you have said you're new at this and theefore weren't around during the 3.5 days:
For which 3.5 Books I've found most useful in Pathfinder:
Setting Books (Forgotten Realms) - their monsters are good, and most have no Pathfinder Equivalents, they have interesting prestige classes (most will be underwhelming in pathfinder, but not all of them) and races. And that's assuming you're not making use of the excellent setting info, which is all quite good. Waterdeep has been a great book for running campaigns. The Campaign Setting, Player's Guide, Races of Faerun, Magic of Faerun, Underdark, and Drow of the Underdark have all been excellent and highly used as well (I invested in a second copy of the campaign setting as my first one was starting to wear out).
Adventures - these work quite well in Pathfinder. Ideally you just grab your monsters from the pathfinder bestiaries, as most of them have been done at this point. NPCs can require some converting, or they end up on the weak side. The earlier ones (or any made by Paizo) are quite good. Some of the later ones were a bit 4e for my tastes.
IMO the best 3.5 book for use with Pathfinder is Cityscape; but I tend to prefer running Urban adventures. Stormwrack(seafaring), Frostfall(artic adventues), and Sandstorm (desert adventures), Heroes of Horror, Heroes of Battle (war campaigns), and Dungeonscape (dungeon campaigns) were were also alright; I've gotten lots of good use out of stormwrack and cityscape in Pathfinder.
Manual of the Planes and Planar handbook have all sorts of excellent planar goodies, and some cool templates and monsters, as well as some interesting races and spells and magic gear.
Players tend to like Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium, and the Complete Series (Complete Champion, Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, and Complete Mage in particular - but some of the options in there can be quite powerful when combined together).
Book of Challenges is a good collection of traps and whatnot for your dungeons. That's always nice.
-----
For monsters specifically (im sure others will have more suggestions here, but)? Monster Manual 3.5 has a bunch of iconic monsters that didn't come over to pathfinder (Beholder, Illithid, Umber Hulk, Displacer Beast, Githyanki/Githzerai, Slaad, and Ogre Mage (Not-Oni) ) are the main attractions there.
Lords of Madness doesn't have a Pathfinder equivalent. Fiend Folio has a good collection of monsters, most of which I dont think are in Pathfinder (at a glance I see dark ones, formians, huecuva, jackalweres, kelpie, selkie, and spriggan which seem to be the only ones with pathfinder versions).
Looking at undead specifically, the ones I mentioned are the main ones I've enjoyed using (Curst (Monsters of Faerun/Lost Empires of Faerun), Cryptspawn (Magic of Faerun), Dracolich (Draconomicon), and Baelnorn (Monsters of Faerun) in particular), and none of them are in Libris Mortis.
You could have some fun in an undead campaign by mixing in some non-necromancy skeletons (created with animate object) as constructs instead of undead, if you want to keep your players on their toes. Also, Pseudo-Undead(never got an official 3.5 writeup, but were around before that) can be fun. I like when the cleric panics because turn undead isn't doing anything, because they're actually fighting a bunch of negative-energy-mutated humans.
On undead in pathfinder. The reason they have d12s in 3.5 is because they dont have any stats adding to their hp, so if doign a full conversion take that into consideration, rather than just making all your PF undead get extra HP.
And for quick conversions to pathfinder I would probably suggest just calculating CMB/CMD and then counting the CR as if 1 lower (above level 2 or 3), and maybe 2 lower above level 10 or so, just based on personal experience. Maybe some other people could weigh in on this one.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You know.. you could get around the caster level requirements for the phylactery by using the
Master Craftsman feat. A racial spell like ability qualifies for both the ability to cast spells and the caster level requirement, too.Seems like a level 11 tiefling or aasimar fighter with high ranks in Craft could qualify to become a lich.
Since spell like abilities can qualify you for feats and such, you don't even need master craftsman. Any SLA that increases in caster level as you level up will qualify you (such as the tiefling or aasimar). With this in mind, the qi gong monk or even the relatively mundane rogue (with the minor magic rogue talent) could potentially become liches.
Also note that many martial classes (antipaladin, ranger, etc.) can cast spells, so you're covered there too.
Interestingly, the lowest CR entry lich I can find is not the kobold adept, contrary to what you might think. No, it's the relatively ironic barbazu/bearded devil. With a caster level of 12 for its SLAs and a CR of 5, with the lich template you've got a CR 7 lich. (Making it a potential good villain for an E6 campaign.
I didn't think outsiders could become a lich. Not sure where I got that, but I could have sworn I read it someplace.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A lich who dreams of conquest will have the benefit of long term planning and will need a more public lair, since they would need a symbol of authority. This lich might have range of mortal guardians with more powerful undead and constructs guarding the inner chambers depending on if it's keeping its nature a secret. The phylactery might be a crown or scepter.
As for why they're scary, part of it is they're mechanically usually strong spellcasters with a lot of immunities due to being undead. But the main reason I find them scary is they have the ability to be impossibly patient and hard to kill. You...
Of course, the whole patience thing might also be their downfall. Staying current/up with the times might be a significant problem with liches (wizards in fantasy media tend to be reclusive types who spend long hours looking over old tomes in the first place.) As one ages in real life it can be difficult enough to keep caught up with current events, fashions etc. Can you imagine what it must be like for an immortal being, particularly one who was born and raised in a long dead civilization? Although we often handwave ancient immortals as not only to surviving the change of societies through out the ages but also thriving in/mastering the johnny-come-lately civilizations, the question of how they came to dominant these later societies may be an interesting one to explore.
I didn't think outsiders could become a lich. Not sure where I got that, but I could have sworn I read it someplace.
It might be in some later book, I dunno. It USED to be in 3.5 only humanoids could become liches. HOWEVER, in PF core the template can be added to "any living creature" (a qualification that excludes constructs and undead but includes outsiders.)
I didn't think outsiders could become a lich. Not sure where I got that, but I could have sworn I read it someplace.It might be in some later book, I dunno. It USED to be in 3.5 only humanoids could become liches. HOWEVER, in PF core the template can be added to "any living creature" (a qualification that excludes constructs and undead but includes outsiders.)
Ok, thanks.
For some reason, I seem to be channeling my old 3.x books lately even though I haven't looked at them in years.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You people are awesome and so freaking helpful. Darkholme you are just a well of information and i like that.
The idea of a monk Lich is wonderful.
Something worth noting...Bloodragers are full casters so...you can make bloodragers liches, just saying at level 11.
What a beautifully horrid bad-guy. (Best BAB, haste while bloodraging, dual-wielding unarmed strikes with every one save or suck...)
EDIT: Tri is correct reference the morale bonuses, I was just imagining a free haste, best BAB save-or-suck fest.
Vanilla Pudding
I just got a new baaaaa~d guuuyyyy~!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Something worth noting...Bloodragers are full casters so...you can make bloodragers liches, just saying at level 11.What a beautifully horrid bad-guy. (Best BAB, haste while bloodraging, dual-wielding unarmed strikes with every one save or suck...)
EDIT: Tri is correct reference the morale bonuses, I was just imagining a free haste, best BAB save-or-suck fest.
Vanilla PuddingI just got a new baaaaa~d guuuyyyy~!
well a spell conduit bad touch lich may be kinda scary. also i homebrewed a feat for the occasion.
Even the life has long left you, you feel the stirrings of former passion and fury.
Prerequisite
Must be undead
Benefit
You gain the benefits of morale bonuses granted by class features you possess. You are immune to morale bonuses from other sources as normal.
special
if you possess the undead bloodline and gain the benefit from a morale bonus to your constitution score, you may instead gain the morale bonus to your charisma score.
added some special love for the undead bloodlines since they lose out a bit for going undead.
If you're okay with 3.5, the Book of Vile Darkness has some good stuff for liches, what with the vile spells and evil magic items and whatnot.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If you're okay with 3.5, the Book of Vile Darkness has some good stuff for liches, what with the vile spells and evil magic items and whatnot.
I have that.
BoVD has a couple of interesting pages on the nature of evil, some evil sample gods, an article with advice on creating a villain - followed by examples, rules on possession
, magical sacrifice, additional curses and diseases, evil plot hooks, torture devices & execution equipment, drugs, a big table of poisons, some general monster feats, as well as some feats based on evil stuff, Some prestige classes (some of which would work fine in Pathfinder, like the disciple/thrall PRCs might work out okay - some of the others would be lacking when compared to PF stuff - but you never know, some of it is great fluff and you might want to take the time to find/do a conversion of it, too), a collection of spells (some of which are pretty cool - which you might want to include in a PF Game (and consider which PF classes you should consider adding them to)), some neat magic items, a nice section on the hells, the abyss, and the rulers of both, and a small monster section [spoiler]The demons/devils mostly have pathfinder versions, but the Kython seem to basically be D&D Tyranids/Zerg/Aliens, so you may have a use for those. Then there are a couple of evil templates, Following the monsters is a section on dealing with evil PCs, and ways to make it work, and whatnot.
In short;
BoVD - Cool Evil Stuff for your bad guys, info on demons and devils.
Heroes of Horror - an excellent book for stuff to run darker games.
Book of Fiends - Demon/Daemon/Devil bestiary.
Hordes of the Abyss - a guide to Demons and the Abyss.
Tyrants of the Nine Hells - a guide to Devils and the Hells.
Lords of Chaos - Paizo Demon Guide (short, but has some interesting stuff)
Princes of Darkness - Paizo Devil Guide (short, but interesting)
Horsemen of the Apocalypse - Paizo Daemon Guide (very different from D&D Daemons.)
Demon Hunter's Handbook - Paizo Demon Hunter option book.
Council of Thieves AP - Cool Devil-Themed AP set in Cheliax, featuring some interesting devil characters.
Cheliax - Empire of Devils - Cool Setting book about diabolists with a little bit more devil information.
Manual of the Planes - A Comprehensive Planar Guide
Planar Handbook - Expansion for Manual of the Planes.
Demons (Tanar'ri), Devils (Baatezu), Daemons (Yugoloths), Daemons (Not Yugoloths), are fantastic; and you should look for ways to work them into your games. ;P
Also fun fact, a good chunk of Book of Fiends was written by Erik Mona (Paizo), Hordes of the Abyss by James Jacobs (Paizo).
I know i have the pdf of the BoVD and i will give it a read through.thank you
Dot
If I have an NPC bad guy who becomes a Vampire or a mummy could the person become a Lich later? Do those templates stack?
If I have an NPC bad guy who becomes a Vampire or a mummy could the person become a Lich later? Do those templates stack?
You can't apply the Lich template to something that is already undead.
“Lich” is an acquired template that can be added to any living creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature), provided it can create the required phylactery. A lich retains all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Vampires have the same wording, so an already undead creature can't become a vampire.
Of course, the GM can always decide differently.