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I've seen a lot of people exclaiming over the misfortune ability. But reading the text of the ability, I'm not certain what is so great about it. Can you guys clue me in?
Misfortune (Ex): At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it's worse than the original roll. Once a creature has suffered from your misfortune, it cannot be the target of this revelation again for 1 day.
What is so great about forcing a creature to reroll before the results of the roll are revealed? We don't know at that point whether its attack succeeded or not. Or am I missing something here?
Hmm
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Many players can make good educated guesses about whether or not their save/attack/skill check succeeded or failed before the GM announces so and then can 're-roll accordingly
If the first roll was a natural 20, forcing a reroll is avoiding a threatened critical.
If someone on your side rolls a natural 1, forcing a reroll can be beneficial.
Many players can make good educated guesses about whether or not their save/attack/skill check succeeded or failed before the GM announces so and then can 're-roll accordingly
This^.
The ability to look at the dice and determine if it's one that you want or not is quite potent, even before the GM reveals the results.
The ability grows much weaker in opposed combat if the GM rolls behind a screen - you have no idea, in that case, what was rolled.
If things are rolled publicly, however, it's easy to see if the GM made a 20 (or even 17-19), and then you can require a re-roll, for instance.
Similarly, if a player rolls a 1 (or, often enough a 2-5), there's rarely really a reason not to use it unless you honestly don't care about that skill and suspect that you might want to do it again, later, that day.
It's a pretty great ability, over-all, allowing players to reduce risk and random chance by a bit.
And how does one determine if they rolled a natural 20 before the roll is revealed?If the first roll was a natural 20, forcing a reroll is avoiding a threatened critical.
If someone on your side rolls a natural 1, forcing a reroll can be beneficial.
Only the most restrictive reading puts it before the value of the roll is revealed. Typically it's before the number on the die is interpreted to determine the AC it would hit, save DC it would meet, etc in the case of monsters and before the GM confirms the hit/miss or save/fail for PCs. You're right that if you don't get to know what the value of the die is, it's meaningless.
There's a slightly less restrictive reading that says you know the result for nat 1s and 20s (on saves and attacks). That seems a valid interpretation of the rules to me, but I still would allow a reroll in those cases.
But my DM rolls the monster's saves behind a screen. Does this ability mean the DM must tell me the number he rolled but not all pluses and minuses?
"Results of the roll" seems like after it is all totaled, but game-play often hides the numbers in the first place.
There was a thread about this a while ago, but I'm too lazy to search for it. There was a to-do about whether it was entitled players or the GM stealth-nerfing an ability.
The balanced middle approach that seemed to come out was to establish certain thresholds where the GM will tell you the roll on the die. If it rolls a 20 is a pretty simple one, but you could do whatever. Then the GM tells you the criterion was met and you say to reroll or not.
"Crit threat with its current weapon" seems like a reasonable one, also.
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It's not "before the roll is revealed" it's "before the results of the roll are revealed".
"Results" - not total, just the results.
"Do I climb the ladder?"
"Does the sword hit?"
"Are they persuaded by my words?"
These are all kind of "no duh" and are all exceedingly useful without the ability to alter the enemies' rolls.
Factor in the ability to alter foes' rolls - which may or may not apply depending on the game, as I noted above - and it becomes extremely potent.
Without it, it's a great ability.
... though without it, it's also a very misnamed ability.
EDIT: Also, add Fortune is pretty awesome.
These aren't the same as a witch's Fortune or Misfortune ability - they don't really match.
And the proper way to use it something like "I cast Murderous Command, reroll save if he rolls 14 or better", not "I cast Murderous Command, roll a Will save....hang on, what did he roll on the die? 13? The difficulty is...hang on, you said 13? no, not gonna force a reroll on that, Did he get a 16 or better to save?"
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So... Do you guys find that GMs in PFS are cooperative about this ability? Because this one seems one that could easily be shut down by GMs rolling everything behind a screen and maintaining poker faces.
My real life sense motive skill is fairly good, but I'd rather not have to rely on it to take advantage of an extraordinary ability.
Hmm
While there is no rule specifying how rolls are to be done abilities like this generally imply that rolls are done out in the open otherwise they have little to no meaning.
That or the DM has to be nice and give you hints from behind the screen.