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Basically 3 questions, but third one is being, at least partly, discussed in another thread, and the first two I just lack the Forum-Fu to find a mention of:
1) Do monk and sacred fist levels stack for purpose of the unarmed strike damage?
2) Do monk and sacred fist levels stack for purpose of flurry of blows?
3) Does Monk & Sacred Fist Wisdom Bonus to AC from both classes stack with each other, essentially granting Wisdom modifier TWICE? Granted, Monk's ability is (Ex) and Sacred Fist's equivalent is (Su), so it would seem that they do stack, but I feel it's not supposed to. Feels more like rules-abuse.
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This is the closest quote from the ACG I could find that might answer your question:
Parent Classes: Each one of the following classes lists two classes that it draws upon to form the basis of its theme. While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don’t stack unless specified.
Yes, I know monk is not a parent class of the warpriest. Arguing that since it isn't specifically a parent class they would stack is disingenuous. So the answers to your questions are:
1) No. Take a look at the Monastic Legacy feat from UC for partial stacking.
2) Not directly, but remember that Flurry of Blows uses the BAB from non-monk classes. (In other words a monk 4/sacred fist 3 would use the full 4 monk levels and the 2 BAB from sacred fist for an effective BAB of 6 while flurrying - giving you an iterative attack.)
3) That's the rules question I most want answered - can you stack ability score bonuses twice to the same thing?
Of course it's up to your GM to alter rules as he or she sees fit. In a home game I would probably say yes to 1 and 2 and no to 3. (Because I don't see 1 and 2 as having a major negative impact on the game while 3 is going to require me to massively increase the power level of combat NPCs to provide equivalent challenges.)
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Basically 3 questions, but third one is being, at least partly, discussed in another thread, and the first two I just lack the Forum-Fu to find a mention of:
1) Do monk and sacred fist levels stack for purpose of the unarmed strike damage?
2) Do monk and sacred fist levels stack for purpose of flurry of blows?
3) Does Monk & Sacred Fist Wisdom Bonus to AC from both classes stack with each other, essentially granting Wisdom modifier TWICE? Granted, Monk's ability is (Ex) and Sacred Fist's equivalent is (Su), so it would seem that they do stack, but I feel it's not supposed to. Feels more like rules-abuse.
1.) I believe they do not.'He uses his warpriest levels as monk levels for determining the amount of damage dealt with an unarmed strike". However any GM probably wouldn't really mind if they did. At most I only see a 2 level dip from Monk for most of these builds.
2.) Yes, in the sense of adding your Monk BAB to your Warpriest's FBAB. They do not directly stack.3.) When it comes to RAW rules, this breaks None of them. They should be allowed to stack. However, it's always a good move to ask your GM about it so he isn't surprised with a non-enhanced 16-22 AC at level 2.
If you want it bad enough, just be ready to get to the nitty gritty of it. Make sure you clarify that, although unusual to come from Wisdom for both, One is Ex and the other is Su, they are both untyped bonuses, and they are both from unrelated sources. Also bring an example of a currently OK and used scenario/feat and ability combo, that is similar in concept to this debacle. It's certainly not unfair for a Monk to have decent AC for once, and do decent damage, since fighters and other martials still do far better in terms of both. Plus, even with AC covered to whatever degree, he'll just surprise you with something different ;P That's what good and smart GM's do!
Edit: I'm actually glad you asked these today. I'm presenting them and a couple others to my GM before I go to my first game.
there's one more "but" to your reasoning with flurry of blows. Sacred Fist gains it too, and it says it works just like the monk ability. This left me to wonder whether it does, in fact, stack levels after all. Reason for which I'm concerned with that, is: when would character with monk and sacred fist levels receive the extra flurry attacks. Monk gets the second at 8th level and third at 15th, iirc. By RAW I read it that Sacred Fist would get them too, at said levels.
Unarmed damage not stacking I can deal with, but flurry of blows I'm puzzled with.
Not to mention the AC shenanigans. Personally it feels "wrong" to me. Even if by RAW it might stack. I hardly believe it was the intent.
Actually, just realised that Ex. or Su. has nothing to do with the type of them. They don't define bonus type, only how the abilities function. If they did, there would be bonus types called extraordinary bonus or supernatural bonus.
1.) I believe they do not.'He uses his warpriest levels as monk levels for determining the amount of damage dealt with an unarmed strike". However any GM probably wouldn't really mind if they did. At most I only see a 2 level dip from Monk for most of these builds.
I think the answer to this specifically should be yes exactly for the language used: saying to use "his warpriest levels as monk levels" to me mean summing them up. It would have been different if it was "his warpriest level as the equivalent monk level".
For the 2. I would agree with everybody (although I think it would have been cleared adding something to specify the implicit assumption that the "Sacred fist" levels are used in place of Monk levels for Flurry of blows).
For the 3., RAW they do stack, probably RAI they do not, as some developers stated in some previous posts that a bonus from the same stat should not be added twice if not explicitly stated otherwise... but to my knowledge it was not a ruling, only an opinion...
For #3, I suspect that RAI, the Wisdom bonuses do not stact and they intended the Su to be associated more with the +1 deflection the sacred fist gets, as opposed to the +1 untyped bonus the monk Ex ability gets at 4th level.
AC Bonus (Ex)
When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
AC Bonus (Su)
A deity protects her sacred fist as long as he is unarmored and unencumbered. A sacred fist adds his Wisdom modifier (minimum 0) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a sacred fist gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every 4 levels thereafter (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level).
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the sacred fist is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Emphasis mine.
There are two reasons I personally would say they should stack:
1. The Monk's ability comes from his/her own inner strength; whereas the Sacred Fist's ability comes from his/her Deity shielding him/her from harm.
2. The monk's AC Bonus is (ex), which means it works every time, all the time, 24/7. The Sacred Fist's AC Bonus is (su); which means if you walk into an AMF or if you do something to piss your deity off, no more AC Bonus.
Two different abilities (albeit similarly themed) from two different sources.
That, whether they come from yourself or from your deity, has absolutely zero effect on whether they stack or not.
Saying they're untyped is wrong, because the type is Wisdom modifier.
Wisdom modifier (a.k.a. bonus) doesn't stack with itself, period.
The deflection bonus from sacred fist's AC bonus and it's equivalent monk AC bonus do stack, however like you said. Still their levels do not stack per se, so that your monk levels do not count as sacred fist levels and vice versa for the extra bonus.
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What type of bonus is the wisdom mod? Is it sacred? Luck? Something you pulled out of thin air that isn't in the rules?
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That, whether they come from yourself or from your deity, has absolutely zero effect on whether they stack or not.
Saying they're untyped is wrong, because the type is Wisdom modifier.
Wisdom modifier (a.k.a. bonus) doesn't stack with itself, period.
The deflection bonus from sacred fist's AC bonus and it's equivalent monk AC bonus do stack, however like you said. Still their levels do not stack per se, so that your monk levels do not count as sacred fist levels and vice versa for the extra bonus.
I think you're reading into it a bit wrong... or mixing up source with type.
The Monk's AC Bonus is an UNTYPED bonus. The growth of a Monk's AC Bonus is also UNTYPED. The AC Bonus of the Sacred Fist is UNTYPED. The growth of a Sacred Fist's AC Bonus is a DEFLECTION bonus.
It's SOURCE is WISDOM mod.
Is there a general rule or specific rule that says you may not pull from the same source for an ability? I think that's the issue here. That, or maybe the "same name" is bothering people.
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It's source is the AC Bonus class feature.
Wisdom sets the value of this bonus.
This.
And since the two class features are not the same (they read differently, have different types of bonuses for their scaling increase, and are different types of abilities entirely) they stack. Unless Paizo specifically says they don't, of course.
Now, I'm not saying that they may not decide they don't stack. But until the devs say otherwise, there is nothing in the game that says they don't.
I'm sort of thinking they didn't spend a lot of time considering the implications of some of their archetypes. This is one but there are others (hello Bolt Ace).
The idea of a Warpriest with a Monk dip (or vice versa) to double up on Wis AC and regain Flurry of Blows (lost with some Monk archetypes), among other things, seems a little much.
By RAW these things look like they would stack, but I'm thinking that, for some reason, they didn't consider (or they forgot to mention something that would prevent) a Sacred Fist multiclass with Monk. From the way it reads, I suspect that they intended to swap out the Fighter half of the hybrid for Monk (which makes some sense since the Fighter aspects of the class were replaced by Monkish ones). Unfortunately, they didn't bother to print it.
I think the book needs another once over followed by thick erratas and FAQs.
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I think the book needs another once over followed by thick erratas and FAQs.I don't think anyone on the planet disagrees with this.
You think wrong. The book is fine. Yes, it needs errata. But so did every other damn rulebook of any gaming system ever.
PFS will ban or make calls for organised play. DMs in regular games will make some calls based on the most importamt rule, RAW and RAI, which is that the DM is always right.
It is an exciting book, with cool options.
So what if some things are wonky or a tadbit over/underpowered, again not something new :).
Anyway, imo unarmed damage does not stack, FOB BAB does stack (but you'd still need level 8/15 for the 'extra' attacks mirroring two weapon fighting) and you get to count Wisdom twice. Two classes, two abilities, two different sources which happen to use the same stat.
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I'm sort of thinking they didn't spend a lot of time considering the implications of some of their archetypes. This is one but there are others (hello Bolt Ace).
The idea of a Warpriest with a Monk dip (or vice versa) to double up on Wis AC and regain Flurry of Blows (lost with some Monk archetypes), among other things, seems a little much.
By RAW these things look like they would stack, but I'm thinking that, for some reason, they didn't consider (or they forgot to mention something that would prevent) a Sacred Fist multiclass with Monk. From the way it reads, I suspect that they intended to swap out the Fighter half of the hybrid for Monk (which makes some sense since the Fighter aspects of the class were replaced by Monkish ones). Unfortunately, they didn't bother to print it.
I think the book needs another once over followed by thick erratas and FAQs.
Not to disagree with this entire book needing a few more runthroughs;
but as for doubling up on AC and other things being "a bit much", it's certainly enough and right on the nose. It makes any actual "Monks" suck a lot less(for the RAW that is), though their damage still won't accel past mediocre. That, and their Deflection bonus from the SF is pretty much useless since a Ring of Deflection is a cheap and just better option.It may "seem" like a bit much, but it isn't. It's no better than a Fighter's AC or Damage in the long-term.
As far as considering to mention SF with Monk... they mentioned Monk several times on what doesn't stack 3-4 times. The whole SF is BASED on the Monk. I'm pretty sure they were thinking of the Monk, somehow, while they wrote that entire segment. Something just hints at it... I don't know what.(sarcasm).
I think Paizo in general just like crapping on Monks, and making sure anything Monk-like is purely for dips.
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I think the book needs another once over followed by thick erratas and FAQs.I don't think anyone on the planet disagrees with this.You think wrong. The book is fine. Yes, it needs errata. But so did every other damn rulebook of any gaming system ever.
PFS will ban or make calls for organised play. DMs in regular games will make some calls based on the most importamt rule, RAW and RAI, which is that the DM is always right.
This.
I recall a player in 3.5 once bringing me a Monk with 2 +5 defending spiked gauntlets and a +5/+5 quarterstaff enchanted with defending on both ends. In those days Defending provided an untyped bonus to AC. By RAW this PC had a +20 stack on his AC.
I killed him with the spell Stop Heart from the old Book of Vile Darkness.
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Interestingly enough; I created a level 15 Str/Dex/Con Sword and Board Fighter(vanilla), and pitted his stats against a level 15 Str/Dex/Wisdom Unarmed Monk/SFWarpriest. This does not include ANY feats, but does include Basic Necessary Gear, Class Abilities, and Race.
I gave them the same items of:
Cloak of Resistance +5
Belt of Physical Perfection +6
Ring of Deflection +5
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
Special for the Fighter:
A +5 Weapon.
Amulet of Natural Armor +5
Full Plate +5
Heavy Steel Shield +5
Special for the Monk/SFWarpriest:
Amulet of Might Fists +5
Headband of Wisdom +6
Attribute gains for the Fighter and Monk/SFWarpriest:
+3 Str
Races for Fighter and Monk/SFWarpriest:
Human with a +2 to Str
Overall Stats for Fighter:
Str: 27(18 base), Dex: 22(16 base), Con: 18(12 base), Int: 13, Wis: 10, Cha: 7
225 HP, AC 47, Touch 21, Flat 42, Fort 18, Ref 16, Will 10
Attack of 33; Damage undoubtedly better than Monk, CMB 23, CMD 44
Breakdown of Stats:
Str: 16 Base Str + 2 Racial + 3 Attribute Gain + 6 Enhancement(belt)
Dex: 16 Base Dex + 6 Enhancement(belt)
Con: 12 Base Con + 6 Enhancement(belt)
HP: HD10+Con(4) -> 14 x 15 levels = 210 + 15 FCHPS = 225
AC 47: Base 10, Full Plate +5(14), Heavy Steel Shield +5(7), Amulet of Natural Armor +5(5), Ring of Deflection +5(5), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier(1), Dex of 22(5 Max)
Touch 21: Base 10, Dex of 22(5 Max), Ring of Deflection +5(5), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier(1)
Flat 42: Base 10, Full Plate +5(14), Heavy Steel Shield +5(7), Amulet of Natural Armor +5(5), Ring of Deflection +5(5), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier(1)
Fort 18: Base 9, Cloak of Resistance +5(5), Con 18(4)
Ref 16: Base 5, Cloak of Resistance +5(5), Dex 22(6)
Will 10: Base 5, Cloak of Resistance +5(5)
Melee Attack 33: BAB 15, Weapon +5, Weapon Specialization +5
Damage: Win
CMB 23: BAB 15, Str 27(8)
CMD 44: Base 10, BAB 15, Dodge and Deflect(5), Str 27+Dex 22(14)
Overall Stats for Monk/SFWarpriest:
Str: 27(18 base), Dex: 18(12 base), Con: 18(12 base), Int: 10, Wis: 22(16 base), Cha: 7
195 HP, AC 40, Touch 32, Flat 36, Fort 20, Ref 16, Will 22
Attack of 23; Damage undoubtedly worse than Fighter, CMB 18, CMD 37
Breakdown of Stats for Monk/SFWarpriest:
Str: 16 Base Str + 2 Racial + 3 Attribute Gain + 6 Enhancement(belt)
Dex: 12 Base Dex + 6 Enhancement(belt)
Con: 12 Base Con + 6 Enhancement(belt)
Wis: 12 Base Wis + 6 Enhancement(headband)
HP: HD8+Con(4) -> 14 x 15 levels = 210 + 15 FCHPS = 195
AC 40: Base 10, AC Bonus(Monk)(6), AC Bonus(SFWarpriest)(6), Ring of Deflection +5(5), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier(1), Dex of 18(4), Bracers of Armor +8(8)
Touch 32: Base 10, Dex of 18(4), Ring of Deflection +5(5), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier(1), AC Bonus(Monk)(6), AC Bonus(SFWarpriest)(6)
Flat 36: Base 10, AC Bonus(Monk)(6), AC Bonus(SFWarpriest)(6), Ring of Deflection +5(5), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier(1), Bracers of Armor +8(8)
Fort 20: Base 11, Cloak of Resistance +5(5), Con 18(4)
Ref 16: Base 7, Cloak of Resistance +5(5), Dex 18(4)
Will 22: Base 11, Cloak of Resistance +5(5), Wis 22(6)
Melee Attack 23: BAB 10, AoMF +5
Damage: Lose
CMB 18: BAB 10, Str 27(8)
CMD 37: Base 10, BAB 10, Dodge and Deflect(5), Str 27+Dex 18(12)
Advantages of Fighter vs Monk/SFWarpriest beyond Stats:
Damage
Attack
Feat Choices and Number of Feats
AC/Flat
Versatility between Ranged and Melee
Can Multiclass for Bonus Feats/Styles(like MoMS Monk for Evasion and Styles)
LOTS of Feats
Weapon Versatility
Bypassing DR
+4 Will vs Fear
Advantages of Monk/SFWarpriest beyond Stats:
Cleric Spells and Domains(1 Minor 1 Major)
Touch AC
Will Save
Evasion or Blessed Fortitude + Miraculous Fortitude
MOMS for Styles
Free Two-Weapon Fighting(Flurry of Blows really)
Low-End Ki Pool for a few effects
+2 Saves vs Enchantment
This is pretty much what it comes down to. That Double-Up in AC Bonus for Monk/SFWarpriest doesn't really make a difference.
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Ring of Protection is useless for the Sacred Fist as they get a defection bonus from class levels. Need to recalculate the AC and give a different item.
Considering their AC Bonus's Deflection Bonus would only give them 3 in the longrun(lvl 14), up to 15, a Ring of Protection would easily be the better choice. No need to re-calculate.
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Is this a Caster WarPriest? 2 monk (for evasion)/ 13 Warpriest? or Monk 14 WarPriest 1?
Also your warpriest build is seriously flawed, Strength is a dumpstat in a survivalist build you max out dex and take weapon finesse This significanlty increases his AC making it so that melee attacks have a very hard time (natural 20's only please) hitting at level. The loss of damage from strength is typically negligible when paired with the ability to simply ignore attacks that aren't critical hits.
for a solid build your warpriest should be Con/Dex/Wisdom with his racial going to wisdom make him the Monk 2 Sacred Fist 13 Ability scores should focus on dex and wisdom being as high as possible.
plus the warpriest has self healing.
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Is this a Caster WarPriest? 2 monk (for evasion)/ 13 Warpriest? or Monk 14 WarPriest 1?
Also your warpriest build is seriously flawed, Strength is a dumpstat in a survivalist build you max out dex and take weapon finesse This significanlty increases his AC making it so that melee attacks have a very hard time (natural 20's only please) hitting at level. The loss of damage from strength is typically negligible when paired with the ability to simply ignore attacks that aren't critical hits.
for a solid build your warpriest should be Con/Dex/Wisdom with his racial going to wisdom make him the Monk 2 Sacred Fist 13 Ability scores should focus on dex and wisdom being as high as possible.
plus the warpriest has self healing.
Neither of them are Survivalist builds. That's the point.
The loss of damage from Str certainly is not negligible. It works the same way when you hit hard enough and kill fast enough, for there to be Zero chance for any Crits; As opposed to having a Crit Only AC(but not Touch AC) and Hopefully not being hit and slowly eating away at your opponent. Also, that would only exist early on levels 1-8 at the most. I guarantee there will be creatures that will still hit on a 15-20 quite often; Unless you're referring to the typical AP. I know this, because I've played a Qinggong Monk to there, and being Defensive didn't pay off after that point.
I forgot to list Fervor and Channel Energy. Now I can't edit :(
My mention of paizo not printing Monk in SF was directly related to the hybrid nature of the class and not to the obvious monk features (that are even described as such). You cannot multiclass a hybrid class with one of it's components. As the Sacred Fist seems to have had the Fighter half replaced by Monk, one would expect the hybrid to become Cleric/Monk rather than remaining as Cleric/Fighter. They failed to mention the change in the hybrid component, however, so it can stack.
How did you combine your Monk/Warpriest? More monk than WP or vice versa? If more WP, I'd expect a little more put initially into Wisdom (considering both blessings and fervor key off of them). Two levels of monk net Evasion and 3 levels of WP get Blessed Fortitude (which you mention). So they could have both, and alongside higher (in your build) fortitude and will saves than the fighter (and tied Reflex) pull them way ahead in the saves department. Depending on your combination, monk could get a bit more mobility too. There's a lot of versatility to the WP with certain spell selection. Granted it would be limited throughout the day while the fighter can keep on trucking, but they can make a world of difference among fewer encounters (such as Righteous Might, Divine Power, etc. which could mitigate a reduction in Str to pump Wis).
The main question is why are you comparing the fighter (full BAB class) to this multiclass (of 3/4 BAB classes)?
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My mention of paizo not printing Monk in SF was directly related to the hybrid nature of the class and not to the obvious monk features (that are even described as such). You cannot multiclass a hybrid class with one of it's components. As the Sacred Fist seems to have had the Fighter half replaced by Monk, one would expect the hybrid to become Cleric/Monk rather than remaining as Cleric/Fighter. They failed to mention the change in the hybrid component, however, so it can stack.
How did you combine your Monk/Warpriest? More monk than WP or vice versa? If more WP, I'd expect a little more put initially into Wisdom (considering both blessings and fervor key off of them). Two levels of monk net Evasion and 3 levels of WP get Blessed Fortitude (which you mention). So they could have both, and alongside higher (in your build) fortitude and will saves than the fighter (and tied Reflex) pull them way ahead in the saves department. Depending on your combination, monk could get a bit more mobility too. There's a lot of versatility to the WP with certain spell selection. Granted it would be limited throughout the day while the fighter can keep on trucking, but they can make a world of difference among fewer encounters (such as Righteous Might, Divine Power, etc. which could mitigate a reduction in Str to pump Wis).
The main question is why are you comparing the fighter (full BAB class) to this multiclass (of 3/4 BAB classes)?
Actually, you can multiclass a Hybrid with it's Parent class. Originally, you could not. I guess they changed it before the release version. This actually surprised me and all I could think was "oh the broken s*** that will be produced now..".
Parent Classes: Each one of the following classes lists two classes that it draws upon to form the basis of its theme. While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don’t stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline), that choice must match similar choices made by the parent classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline).
The Monk/Warpriest, referencing probably the most common one to be built, is Monk2/Warpriest+; and Yes, there is versatility depending on spell selection, which is why I listed that as one of the Advantages vs a Fighter.
Honestly, I really believe the Fighter is just a great benchmark in general. They're good for nearly every occasion, period. I really just couldn't think of one more well-balanced that wouldn't be mediocre or less; or anywhere beyond Powerful. That and everyone is always comparing things to Fighters... when it comes to Martial types that is - Especially comparing Monks to them; In which the SF Warpriest and Monk basically are as far as martial compatibility goes.
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1) You can multiclass into hybrid classes and parent classes.
2) WP is fighter/Cleric. Not Monk. As a result everything stacks.
3) WP gets spells, It's highly likely that WP is a better progression class with monk a better dip.
4) Thanks to the wonderful pummeling charge feat the SF effectively has full BAB.To the OP
1) Yes
2) Yes as long as you get flurry progression (IE not MoMS) as a monk
3) Yes
1) Doh. Ya beat me to it.
2) I agree. Although as far as the "Feel" of it, the Sacred Fist is a crappier Monk, with actually helpful Spells/Domains.3) Correct, it will slow down Spell Progression. That's a tough trade for MoMS, but it depends if you want to be more Divine Caster than Martial.
4) Yep. This is the whole point of a Monk dip. MoMS Monk dip is just a really smart option; especially with Fighter or Sacred Fist.
3) Here is where I agree with you and disagree(after much debating). I agree to an extent, although I disagree when I realize there is a 3.5 parent rule that isn't in PRD stating bonuses from the same source do not stack. Then again; that's 3.5 and this is Pathfinder. /shrug. So I'm kind of floating in space on this one.
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While a single class should not be locked in to one build to be effective, a combination can such as Sorc/Monk. If you are multi classing in two classes specifically to get 2x wis to AC Wis should be your primary stat. Besides u can make up the lost danage with buff spells such as divine favor. Dex/Wis is the way to go with Monk/Sacred fist
Yes, and No on the subject of Making up for Lost Damage.
It costs extra actions to get to that point, and even then, you'll still fall pretty behind that of a Fighter. You'll be closer, but still far - and it took prepping to do it whereas a Fighter just walks in Ready. You could use your Fervor to Swift action a Divine spell, but then you need 2 more Swift Actions afterwards to get into Styles. You can't say you don't want Pummeling Style/Charge, Dragon Style, and/or Snake Style/Fang! : P
I can't disagree with the Dex/Wis build, that build comes natural to me for Monk and Sacred Fist alike. I love Dex builds! Especially with Snake Fang involved. However they tend to suffer the first 1-6 levels for me, and in the long-run still continue to lag behind.
Could you explain the Sorc/Monk? I'm pretty curious!
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I am interested as to what the final resolution will be for stacking, but there is the solution that no-one has considered:
The abilities stack in a sense that their levels stack together (at least if the ability is identical).
So a Monk 3/Sacred Fist 4 would flurry as a 7th level monk and deal unarmed strike damage as a 7th level monk.
I'm not sure how level-stacking could work with the AC bonus ability and have clarity.
I am interested as to what the final resolution will be for stacking, but there is the solution that no-one has considered:
The abilities stack in a sense that their levels stack together (at least if the ability is identical).
So a Monk 3/Sacred Fist 4 would flurry as a 7th level monk and deal unarmed strike damage as a 7th level monk.
I'm not sure how level-stacking could work with the AC bonus ability and have clarity.
They have ruled that the Wis to AC is a Ability Bonus, and so the two do not stack. However, the +1 and so that each class gets as they level would stack.
So a Monk 3/Sacred Fist 4 would flurry as a 7th level monk and deal unarmed strike damage as a 7th level monk.
I'm pretty sure the second half of that statement is actually wrong. The ACG says that similar or identical class features do not stack unless it's specifically stated that they do. The text for a sacred fist's unarmed strike says that warpriest levels count as monk levels for determining damage but it doesn't say that these levels stack with monk levels from other classes.
I'm pretty sure the second half of that statement is actually wrong. The ACG says that similar or identical class features do not stack unless it's specifically stated that they do. The text for a sacred fist's unarmed strike says that warpriest levels count as monk levels for determining damage but it doesn't say that these levels stack with monk levels from other classes.
So a Monk 3/Sacred Fist 4 would flurry as a 7th level monk and deal unarmed strike damage as a 7th level monk.
The ACG only talks about Parent Class(es) and warpriest doesn't include monk as one. As such, it's statement on similar or identical class features for Parent Class(es) doesn't apply.