So, I worked up the following character. 25-point buy. His main aim: Pump strength and be a glass canon, but that goes for any raging class right!?
Half-Orc
Crossblooded Rager (Abyssal/Draconic) 20
St: 18 Dex: 12 Con: 15 Int: 9 Wis: 10 Cha: 15
1: Bloodrager Bloodrage, Fast Movement, Bloodline Power: Claws (Draconic Bloodline), Raging Vitality. Toothy racial trait.
2: Bloodrager Uncanny Dodge
3: Bloodrager Knowledge: Survival, Blood Sanctuary
4: Bloodrager Blood Casting, Bloodline Power: Draconic Resistances, Eschew Materials (Bonus).
5: Bloodrager Improved Uncanny Dodge, Arcane Strike
6: Bloodrager Power Attack (Bonus)
7: Bloodrager DR 1/ -, Blooded Arcane Strike
8: Bloodrager Bloodline Power: Breath Weapon
9: Bloodrager Eldritch Heritage (Orc: Touch of Rage), Toughness (Bonus)
10: Bloodrager DR 2/-
11: Bloodrager Greater Bloodrage, Improved Eldritch Heritage: Strength of the Beast
12: Bloodrager Abyssal Bloodrage (Bloodline Power), Intimidating Prowess (Bonus)
13: Bloodrager DR 3/ -, Cornugon Smash/Reckless Rage
14: Bloodrager Indomitable Will
15: Bloodrager Furious Focus, Improved Initiative (Bonus)
16: Bloodrager Bloodline Power: Dragon Form, DR 4/ -
17: Bloodrager Tireless Bloodrage, Dreadful Carnage
18: Bloodrager Blind-Fight (Bonus)
19: Bloodrager DR 5/ -
20: Bloodrager Mighty Bloodrage, Bloodline Power: Power of Wyrms
If my calculations are correct this would net me a standard 3 natural attacks while raging. It would also work towards boosting strength like a maniac. Spells would mostly be self buffs, maybe chill touch worked in or w/e.
The things I was wondering:
1) Can Strength be boosted higher?
2) Which combination of Intimidating Prowess/Furious Focus/Cornugon Smash/Dreadful Carnage should I take? All, some?
3) Do you have any suggestions on how to decrease (melee) vulnerability, already well aware I am going to be messed-up on will saves :)?
4) Any sensible way I could work IUS, Feral Combat Training and the Dragon Style feats in (with or without losing Strength)?
5) Other feedback?
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Can you give us a breakdown of your total Strength bonuses? There are builds out there that can get Strength up into the 80s, so I'm absolutely sure there will be other things you can add to this to boost your Strength more. The first one I can think of is a single dip into Alchemist for +4 Alchemical bonus to Strength from your mutagen, but that would kill your capstone ability of course.
18 Start
4 leveling
6 belt
6 Eldritch Heritage
14 (Mighty Bloodrage 8 + 6 from Abyssal)
6 (size, Form of the Dragon II)
That leaves me at 54.
I could add;
2 from Profane Gift from a Succubus.
+4 alchemical bonus could be done, but then I lose +2 from not getting to level 20 for the Abyssal Bloodrage
I could periodically get +14 from Moment of Greatness, but that would be just one attack, and would need a wand or a friendly caster.
Blood rage from Orcs of Golarion is a morale bonus, so is out due to Bloodraging providing a morale bonus.
If Dragon Disciple stacks with Bloodrager I could get +4 from there.
@Falcar
I would indeed get decent HP. However, I would start with 'just' 10 + 4 (raging con of +4) + 1 Favoured class = 15 HP.
I know it's not bad, and I guess medium armour helps :)
Well you could try for the teamwork feat amplified rage. That increases your rage bonuses by 4. and then depending on if courageous weapons increase to moral includes the moral bonus to str.
Aren't the +6 from eldritch heritage Orc and the +6 from Abysall both Inherant bonuses? (In other words they do not stack).
This Abyssal is from the Bloodrager, so it's increasing the STR bonus for his rage.
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Aren't the +6 from eldritch heritage Orc and the +6 from Abysall both Inherant bonuses? (In other words they do not stack).This Abyssal is from the Bloodrager, so it's increasing the STR bonus for his rage.
It is part of his rage, but what is the category of the bonus? Is it a morale bonus or is it an inherent bonus? It doesn't matter where it is from, it matters what type of bonus it is.
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Instead of Draconic, go with Arcane. You can choose the 8th level power for free Haste when you start raging, and you can pick up the 16th level for Beast Shape IV when you rage. Same Strength buff, but you can get Pounce and Haste from arcane. Also, if you have retraining as an option, you can get free Blur while you rage also, giving up Enlarge Person[which IIRC doesn't stack with Beast Shape]. And if you still want to go with dragon-shifting, you can get Form of the Dragon just as well, but only form I.
It is part of his rage, but what is the category of the bonus? Is it a morale bonus or is it an inherent bonus? It doesn't matter where it is from, it matters what type of bonus it is.Aren't the +6 from eldritch heritage Orc and the +6 from Abysall both Inherant bonuses? (In other words they do not stack).This Abyssal is from the Bloodrager, so it's increasing the STR bonus for his rage.
It increases the moral bonus gained from your rage. "At 12th level, the morale bonus to
Strength granted by your bloodrage increases by 2, but thepenalty to AC becomes –4 instead of –2. At 16th level, this bonus
increases by 4 instead. At 20th level, it increases by 6 instead."
So, anything else? Still very much on the fence about the amount of intimidate feats to take. Only Cornugon Smash is cheap (only 1 feat) and will proc practically every round. However, Furious Focus gives a nice bonus and dreadful carnage makes for many intimidayes. Down side is that you have to 'kill' somebody and it costs an extra feat.
Anyway, seems a pretty decent build for raw damage. Might want noxious bite in for s%@~s n giggles.
furious focus isn't needed, Your first hit should hit fine as is. If it doesn't you'd have more to worry about then the +4 to hit it'd give.
Rxcept that it is a prereq for dreadful carnage iirc.
So, I worked up the following character. 25-point buy. His main aim: Pump strength and be a glass canon, but that goes for any raging class right!?
Half-Orc
Crossblooded Rager (Abyssal/Draconic) 20
St: 18 Dex: 12 Con: 15 Int: 9 Wis: 10 Cha: 151: Bloodrager Bloodrage, Fast Movement, Bloodline Power: Claws (Draconic Bloodline), Raging Vitality. Toothy racial trait.
2: Bloodrager Uncanny Dodge
3: Bloodrager Knowledge: Survival, Blood Sanctuary
4: Bloodrager Blood Casting, Bloodline Power: Draconic Resistances, Eschew Materials (Bonus).
5: Bloodrager Improved Uncanny Dodge, Arcane Strike
6: Bloodrager Power Attack (Bonus)
7: Bloodrager DR 1/ -, Blooded Arcane Strike
8: Bloodrager Bloodline Power: Breath Weapon
9: Bloodrager Eldritch Heritage (Orc: Touch of Rage), Toughness (Bonus)
10: Bloodrager DR 2/-
11: Bloodrager Greater Bloodrage, Improved Eldritch Heritage: Strength of the Beast
12: Bloodrager Abyssal Bloodrage (Bloodline Power), Intimidating Prowess (Bonus)
13: Bloodrager DR 3/ -, Cornugon Smash/Reckless Rage
14: Bloodrager Indomitable Will
15: Bloodrager Furious Focus, Improved Initiative (Bonus)
16: Bloodrager Bloodline Power: Dragon Form, DR 4/ -
17: Bloodrager Tireless Bloodrage, Dreadful Carnage
18: Bloodrager Blind-Fight (Bonus)
19: Bloodrager DR 5/ -
20: Bloodrager Mighty Bloodrage, Bloodline Power: Power of WyrmsIf my calculations are correct this would net me a standard 3 natural attacks while raging. It would also work towards boosting strength like a maniac. Spells would mostly be self buffs, maybe chill touch worked in or w/e.
The things I was wondering:
1) Can Strength be boosted higher?
2) Which combination of Intimidating Prowess/Furious Focus/Cornugon Smash/Dreadful Carnage should I take? All, some?
3) Do you have any suggestions on how to decrease (melee) vulnerability, already well aware I am going to be messed-up on will saves :)?
4) Any sensible way I...
What is bloodrage knowledge? Didn't see it anywhere.
In my original write-up I tabbed between the level + class end the abilities gained. So what it should have said was;
level 3 bloodrager: (feat) knowledge: survival (prereq for Orcish bloodline Eldritch Heritage).
A bloodrager can be crossblooded???For a massive -4 will save penalty yeah.
The - to will saves (-2 and not getting the +2 while raging) is indeed rough. The d10 hitdice, medium armour and con while raging means he'll be decent at surviving melee, but will be problematic.
I usually like my characters to have a weak spot. This one would be a bit too much maybe. Iron Will and at least a 12 in Wisdom would almost be needed to not be mindcontrolled everytime. Though, usually people would expect a decent will save on a rager, so being continously targeted with spells would involve (some) metagaming on the part of the DM.
So, I worked up the following character. 25-point buy. His main aim: Pump strength and be a glass canon, but that goes for any raging class right!?
Half-Orc
Crossblooded Rager (Abyssal/Draconic) 20
I noticed some things that I've seen contradicted elsewhere:
1. cross blooded rager - bloodline powers: I think you've got them at the wrong levels. they should be at 1,5,9 and 13:
Bloodline Powers: At 1st level and every 4 levels thereafter
2. raging vitality: I don't think you can take that since you don't have the pre-req of either barbarian or rage power. bloodrage doesn't count as rage power.
not a huge change to your overall build, but I think they're important to note for anyone looking at this build.
I was wrong about raging vitality, last line of bloodrage clearly means you can take it. I was for some reason thinking it was a rage power.
If you don't care about the draconic resistances (and NA) you could always grab the Demonic Bulk for +2 size bonus. Not the greatest payoff though since you can cast enlarge person on yourself for the same bonus.
Alternatively, at 17th level you could grab Greater Eldritch Heritage for the Power of Giants ability (+6 size bonus to strength, +4 to Con, -2 dex, and the +4 NA which doesn't really stack with anything).
I meant anything in the build (like the NA bonus from the draconic resistances), but you're right to point that out.
My suggestion of Power of Giants, also wouldn't be as useful when using Form of the Dragon II (which grants similar bonuses and a little bump to NA and a bunch of cool abilities) as they won't stack and so would only be useful if you didn't want to enter the dragon form for some reason, or if you weren't raging.
If you're interested in more fear/intimidation type stuff, you could always dump draconic for undead to pick up Frightful Charger and Frightful Strikes.
So, I worked up the following character. 25-point buy. His main aim: Pump strength and be a glass canon, but that goes for any raging class right!?
Half-Orc
Crossblooded Rager (Abyssal/Draconic) 20
I noticed some things that I've seen contradicted elsewhere:
1. cross blooded rager - bloodline powers: I think you've got them at the wrong levels. they should be at 1,5,9 and 13:
Bloodline Powers: At 1st level and every 4 levels thereafter2. raging vitality: I don't think you can take that since you don't have the pre-req of either barbarian or rage power. bloodrage doesn't count as rage power.
not a huge change to your overall build, but I think they're important to note for anyone looking at this build.
1. Missed that. I am not sure, I figured it wis indeed intended. It specifically states: " At 1st level and every 4 levels thereafter,
a crossblooded rager gains one of the two new bloodlinepowers available to him at that level."
Problem is that RAW 'available to him that level makes no sense, as there are no powers available "at that level" 5, 9, 13, 17. Sure, you could also take a lower level power (and 4, 8, 12 and 16 do work as lower levels), but it seems a weird way to phrase it.
Add to that the fact that the -4 Will save is nasty enough as it is. Getting abilities later and never getting a capstone is.... wrong and makes crossblooded rager really bad.
At my table I would not hand out the abilities later tbh.
What do you guys think about crossblooded and primalist, do they stack?
If you take a 4 level dip in Dragon Disciple that raises your strength by four. In addition, you could also multiclass with Alchemist to get an alchemical bonus to strength ranging from +4 to +6 (depending on one level Alchemist or 2 levels with the Ragechemist).
Unfortunately you do miss out on the capstone with that, but you do gain a net... 4 strength more, though you are missing the self-buff from the capstone and the increase to Will saves. In addition, it takes longer for you to set up, as Mutagen takes a Move Action to activate (unless you activate it beforehand), but even then you're still equal thanks to Dragon Disciple. If it is eventually ruled that Dragon Disciple advances your bloodline, I'd heavily recommend taking a 2 or 4 level dip, since you'd still obtain your bloodline capstone.
EDIT: It's questionable whether Crossblooded and Primalist conflict, since both modify the bloodline, though the Crossblooded Rager section does not mention actually changing the "bloodline class feature" that Primalist mentions.
4 level dip does indeed raise the strength by 4.
It would also lose 2 strength/Con from the loss of the level 20 Mighty Bloodrage. I also lose +2 strength from never getting above level 16 bloodrager for the Abyssal Bloodrage.
Furthermore, it would push back getting Form of the Dragon II till level 20 (unless I do DD 1-4 at level 17-20).
Both problems would ofcourse be solved if Dragon Disciploe stacks with bloodrager.
As for going sorcerer/XX before DD that would work.
I have contemplated:
Sorcerer 12(10)/DD8 (10)
Monk 2/Sorc 3/DD10/??? 5 (possibly EK)
Paladin 4/Sorc 1/DD 10/???
Eldritch Scion 5/DD 10 could also work for a DD gish class.
Or I could abandon the whole massive strength thing and just go bloodrager with a 2-level dip in monk for dragon style and pummeling style and laugh at the image of a 50 strength pouncing enraged dragon :)
You could also be a Halfling Barbarian if you wanted.
It would reduce your STR score by 4 points, but with the feat "Small but Deadly" you can negate half of that.
More importantly though, you could then take the feat "Risky Striker" for a psuedo Power Attack that trades -1 AC for a scaling +2-12 damage bonus (as written, the -1 AC doesn't even scale).
If you take the Primalist archetype as well, you could lose a first level power to gain 2 rage powers, which means you could get Reckless Abandon as well.
While your AC may be pretty low from all this, Halflings FCB gives the Bloodrager more AC to negate these penalties. Fighting defensively also works to ease up on your AC, and Halflings get a bunch of useful feats here as well.
But really, you should try using Arcane Strike.Bloodragers can take the Blooded Arcane Strike feat to gain effectively a constant Arcane Strike effect as they bloodrage, which allows you to use your swift actions for other things, like casting a Quickened spell with the Metamagic Rager Archetype.
Really, there are about 1000 things you could do with the Bloodrager, it's pretty hard to go wrong here.