A world where all the GOOD things in APs came true

[Dreaming Psion]

So we have the thread on what would happen if all the bad things happened in APs would come true in the same continuity. But what about the GOOD things? With the revelation of the AP after Giantslayer, I think it might be an interesting exercise to picture a Golarion after all these monumental events occur.

Where as "All the bad things happen..." might be fun for a post-apoc scenario, I think a "All the good things happen..." might be fun for a gilded age type scenario. Glory has been won across the Inner Sea (and in some places beyond), but now that many of the more overt threats have been nullified, Golarion must deal with picking up the pieces that the conflicts left behind. When an evil is destroyed, there is always a power vacuum to fill. Whereas most implications of the heroes winning might be good, there could be ripple effects that might down the line might not be so good.

Consider Mendev, for instance. Now that the Worldwound is closed, Mendev must look inward to purge its own ranks of the corruption the crusades have allowed to seep inside it. And what about its relationship with Taldor. Will Taldor call them home now that their work abroad is done? What if Mendev resists being called home to help restore Taldor to its former glory? And will Sarkoris recover- possibly coming back with a vengeance?

For the purpose of this discussion, we will assume any player characters defeated the final BBEG and stuck around just long enough to stabilize the immediate chaos left behind in the aftermath of an AP. After that, they ran off to other planes or otherwise became occupied by other things that more or less take up their time. So the world's more or less able to develop on its own. What do you think would happen and what ideas would you have for an age that is not as golden as we might like.

[MMCJawa]

Well...regarding the Worldwound AP:

Even if the Worldwound is closed, there will still be armies of demons, monsters, and cultists left in the Worldwound. They will be unorganized, especially if Deskari and Baphomet are both dead, but will continue to be a threat. So crusaders will probably still be active for quite a while. With the warding stones gone, some demons might try to push into new territory as well (or be pushed into other places by the crusaders, such as the Realms of the Mammoth Lords or Numeria.

As things improve, settlers and refugees will begin returning home. I expect there would actually be quite a bit of political conflict between Mendev, Ustalav, and Sarkoris refugees, as various groups jockey for power. We might also get a lot of petty kingdoms form, as various outside groups attempt to carve out territory.

Tensions are likely to rise between Cheliax and other inner sea nations, if the Iomedians decide that Thrune is the next significant threat to be dealt with. On the other hand, devils are clever, and they may direct that attention to Geb.

If the AP goes according to plans, there in all likelihood are new deities in the Inner Sea Region. Arlee Vorlesh is likely to take Deskari's place, and its probable that at least one of the PCs from the campaign will start accumulating worshippers. Depending on alignment, this could cause more problems or less. The loss of Baphomet and Deskari are likely to cause other changes to the power base of other demon lords.

With the cessation of the threat, there would also be likely a lot of crusaders returning home. This might result in a lot of political unrest or other problems in the major inner sea nations, especially when you throw in the part that a lot of these soldiers could be harboring demonic possession or other problems.

[UnArcaneElection]

Also, the time after Crusaders have gone home and/or fallen to fighting each other would be a perfect time for the Worldwound to blow back open again . . . .

[FormerFiend]

What happens after the world wound closes really depends on the particular PC's involved, I think. More so than most other AP's, due to a mythic character's ability to impact the world around them.

I know my CN half orc fighter/champion is eventually going to be heading back to the realm of the mammoth lords. After he gets done with Jarl Gnargorak, I imagine he'll want to carve out a piece of Sarkosis as well.

[Landon Winkler]

I feel like most APs the main "good thing" is preserving the status quo. That said, there are always side effects.

AP spoilers:

In Rise of the Runelords, Xin-Shalast being discovered and opened for exploitation could lead to some boom towns. Depending on the players, it could even be rebuilt.

Shattered Star you have the Sihedron in the hands of the PCs or the Pathfinder Society. Also, Xin's palace is now a thing off the coast, which is kind of cool.

Reign of Winter, you do get a new leader in Irrisen. And the wishes Baba Yaga grants could be suitably Golarion-shaking.

Mummy's Mask I don't see much effect. Maybe the Ruby Prince realizes letting people dig around in his ruins isn't such a great idea, but that's about it.

Iron Gods you apparently can help a new god ascend and help determine its personality and portfolio.

Cheers!
Landon

[thenovalord]

The good things happen?

Spoiler:

SeSk...all the npcs drown before reaching the beach. The PFS never find the lost city before you do. You discover it in secret all by yourself and have a much better time driving the story forward?

Kingmaker....a mighty empire flourishes and makes dealing with Wrath & Iron Gods much easier for future adventurers!

JR....Everyone gets jiggy with enormous relationship scores and a new dynasty of love, and getting it on, reigns in a distant land

[captain yesterday]

Skull and Shackles

:

the pirates finally become unified enough to pillage the f@$+ out of Nidal and Cheliax, which causes enough strife and loss of Thrune dominance to make Hells Rebels completely unneccesary:)

[Tangent101]

Reign of Winter: Winter has Ended (in Irrisen). Well, that would be assuming the PCs follow the world-hopping after-the-end adventure, of course! ;)

Second Darkness: The elves' dark little secret has been revealed and the surface world can prepare for the threat from below.

WotR: The threat of the Worldwound is ended and four new demi-Gods may appear in the pantheon.

Mummy's Mask: More pyramids to loot!

Rise of the Runelords: Even more loot!

Shattered Star: Did we mention loot?

[UnArcaneElection]

For Reign of Winter, any chance that the PCs can actually go AGAINST Baba Yaga (who started the whole Irrisen mess in the first place) without hosing the world?

Likewise, for Curse of the Crimson Throne, any chance of freeing Queen Ileosa from her madness and redeeming her enough to convince her to make a quiet exit instead of fighting to the death? (Of course, you'd have to find some place that would take her but where she wouldn't easily be able to cause trouble.)

[zimmerwald1915]

UnArcaneElection wrote:

For Reign of Winter, any chance that the PCs can actually go AGAINST Baba Yaga (who started the whole Irrisen mess in the first place) without hosing the world?

Reign of Winter:

I'd answer with a tentative yes. True, the AP doesn't really permit overt acts against Baba Yaga herself until the last possible moment, by which point she's had a whole book to spy on the PCs and guess at their plans. But it is possible to imagine a scenario where the PCs run through the AP as written, let Baba Yaga end Elvanna's ritual and remove the Black Rider's mantle (both of which she will do anyway, regardless of what the PCs do) and then immediately attack her, dealing her a killing blow with her besom or some other artifact. It is also possible to play the long game against Baba Yaga, letting her end Elvanna's ritual and remove the Black Rider's mantle, and then asking her for some boon that will buy the PCs space and/or time to plan a later assault on the Old Crone. Such a boon might include making a PC Queen of Irrisen, which buys a century of time to plan and grow in strength, or leaving Golarion, or its solar system, or the Material Plane, never to return, which buys the PCs a sanctuary in which to plan and grow in strength.

On the way to the final confrontation, there are opportunities to fool around with Little Grandmother's plans in small ways without triggering the geas. For example, the PCs might decide to just trash Artrosa, kill everyone there, and take the Artrosa Ring along with the two keys to Triaxus, leaving the place without a guardian. The geas as written shouldn't stop them. For another example, the AP as written actually features a minor event where the PCs strike at Baba Yaga's interests, when they help Solveig's Heralds provoke the loyalist Iron Guard into an abortive uprising that will end up getting them all killed. Also, I'm pretty sure Baba Yaga wasn't a Bolshevik and wouldn't be too pleased at her home going Red. The PCs in rescuing her from Rasputin incidentally dispersed a formidable concentration of White (judging by the attitude of Polkovnik Lavrenti) troops.

[UnArcaneElection]

Reign of Winter:

If NOBODY in the PC party accepts Baba Yaga's blessing, does that let them evade her Geas and/or her spying?

[zimmerwald1915]

Reign of Winter:

The geas, yes. The spying, no; she manages that by being physically present throughout the last adventure.

But in many ways the adventure path cannot move forward without at least one PC accepting the mantle of the Black Rider. The Dancing Hut only leaves the PCs alone when they first encounter it because it senses the Mantle. If they did not carry it, they would be subject to its attacks if they got within range, just like Nazhena, and they'd probably die. Furthermore, the shackles that imprison the Hut only open when touched by a character bearing the Black Rider's mantle.

[Set]

Kingmaker, exciting new nation, which could be a force for good, and very much change the dynamic of surrounding countries (particularly both Brevoy and the River Kingdoms).

[UnArcaneElection]

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

Reign of Winter:

But in many ways the adventure path cannot move forward without at least one PC accepting the mantle of the Black Rider. The Dancing Hut only leaves the PCs alone when they first encounter it because it senses the Mantle. If they did not carry it, they would be subject to its attacks if they got within range, just like Nazhena, and they'd probably die. Furthermore, the shackles that imprison the Hut only open when touched by a character bearing the Black Rider's mantle.

Reign of Winter:

So this means that an uncompromising party needs to find a way to hot-wire the Hut and its shackles. Elvanna figured out enough to get it to where it is, so it must be at least possible, although probably extremely difficult. Alternatively, the party needs to figure out how to do without the Hut, maybe doing just enough hacking to figure out what the Hut would do if they had the Mantle of the Black Rider, and then go research how to do these things themselves. Either way, it sounds like a worthy challenge, although it would probably make them take a lot longer to accomplish their goals.

Alternatively, it is a possible lead-in to the Reign of Winter part of this scenario. Mua haa haa haa haa haa haa haa . . . .

[Tangent101]

If one person and only one person takes the Mantle, then that provides a method of working around the Mantle. Only one person would be under the geas, and the other PCs would be with him or her and thus not targeted by the Hut after he or she frees the Hut in Book 2.

[Drock11]

One of the biggest problems would be figuring out what to do with the massive amounts of super powerful good adventurers that won all those APs assuming none of them were involved with more than one.

[Tangent101]

Retirement.

Seriously. You have someone who is extremely rich and extremely powerful. They also were facing nonstop threats for months or years. Why not settle down?

It also allows for a Big Bad Heroes moment should things go pear-shaped for the end of Wrath of the Righteous: Imagine 40+ 15th to 18th level characters coming out of retirement with their large caches of magic items and the like and working together to invade the Worldwound and seal it shut after four Mythic Heroes failed.

This is bigger than the Circle of Nine of Greyhawk, or Elminster and his Amazing Friends in Forgotten Realms. This is the heroes who stopped the Runelords, who prevented the Serpent God from rising, who prevented the Drow from destroying the elven lands and who restored the rightful heir of some kingdom on the other side of the world... the heroes who prevented a geniekind from merging with one of the Great Beasts as part of a courtship ritual and four pirates who gleefully tweaked the noses of the Chellish navy, and more. All coming together and working together to stop the Greater Evil. To be heroes one last time, and save the entire world.

[Tacticslion]

Dottination.

[captain yesterday]

who says the "Heroes" were good:)
evil PCs that "save the day" and knock off their major competitors could step into said power vacuum and really clean house;)

[Set]

captain yesterday wrote:

who says the "Heroes" were good:)

evil PCs that "save the day" and knock off their major competitors could step into said power vacuum and really clean house;)

Yeah, many APs are perfect for evil parties. 'Ooh, we stopped the evil whatever, and now we get to take over his castle / city / nation!'

[UnArcaneElection]

Linking back to the thread for A world where all the bad things in APs come true, the above could be a tie-in for Necessary Evil.

[Alleran]

Maybe I'll do what I did for the All The Bad Things thread, and use it to continue procrastinating over Garund in post-apocalypse Golarion. There are certainly some interesting possibilities, though the main issue that will begin to crop up is all the 15-17th level characters appearing in a short period of time, with at least one set of 20th level (and 10th tier) demigod-like individuals up in Sarkoris.

What I think probably would be the case is that the kingdoms and regions of Golarion won't begin to blend together and interact as much like they do in the apocalypse scenario. They'll stay isolated to individual geographical areas unless you strongly push for greater levels of interaction.