What are some of the best designed Feats, Traits, Spells, etc. and what makes them so well designed?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


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So, some of the most common threads on any game's website are probably about the problem features or vaguely worded abilities. While there can be some value (and fun) in discussing bad game features, in that by seeing what a bad feature is, we can gleam some information about what makes a good game feature. Normally the answer is something along the lines of "not that thing."

Anyway, I decided to make the opposite of that type of thread. Let's talk about some of the more well designed feats, traits, spells, archetypes, racial traits of Pathfinder? What are the ones that you like? What makes them so good? How could the design principles in those mechanics be applied to other classes.

For sake of brevity, I'd prefer the discussion stayed from the topic of entire classes. Those have a bit too much to try and unpack. Archetypes, or single class abilities are simple enough, though.

I'll be polite and start the conversation.

I love the Quiggong Monk Archetype. I love that the archetype is not the rigid list of alternate class features that other archetypes are, and is instead a selection of class features and powers that increases as the character levels up, that the character can replace his current features. They do have the downside that every Monk should theoretically be a Quiggong Monk, but I wish more archetypes were like that. I think you can see how they could be more integrated Pathfinder through Ranger combat styles. Instead of giving a character a preselected feat (see the 3.5 Ranger for that garbage), the player is given a slowly increasing pool of options that the player chooses at an early stage.


I like Alchemist Discoveries. They're neither too strong or too weak. They increase your versatility or allow you to specialize and they do so meaningfully.


Not from Paizo, but Psychic Warrior by DSP is what I consider to be the ultimate in balance. In fairness, the original 3.5 Psychic Warrior was also one of the best balanced classes, but all of the new Paths and options (Martial power!) are interesting. Really its a very versatile class that you can use to make just about any kind of character you want.


Armor Training: Makes the fighter better in armor (Full speed!) without just increasing AC.

Blind-Fight: Super useful feat that doesn't directly increase to-hit rolls or damage rolls

Combat Reflexes: Adds to a martial kit without doing MORE damage.

The Druid: A solid class from 1-20 with an evolving play style.

The Magus: A good gish

DSP psionics: just wow. I need more of this in my games. Might have to take up GM-ing again just force it on people.

The bard: best edition to be a bard. You do more than singing.

Summon Monster: I just like the summons.

Telekinesis: Fun useful spell that is not game breaking.


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Ninja tricks are amazing. Invisibility on demand as a swift action, mirror images, massive bursts of power to your Acrobatics skill, and the ability to see in pitch black lighting for an hour...all for the low cost of one ki point. There's even one that gives you a freaking climb speed, and that's without spending ANY ki at all! And this is all without getting into the grand-daddy of them all: Forgotten Trick. "Hmm, I wish I knew martial arts. Oh wait, *concentrates a moment and spends 2 ki* NOW I do!" It's what rogue talents should have been from day 1, a bunch of options that expand what you're capable of doing without dramatically overpowering the character.

Shadow Lodge

Abilities that let you choose between a pet and something else (eg Druid's Nature Bond, Paladin's Divine Bond, Wizard's Arcane Bond). Pets can be a lot of fun, but in some situations they can get in the way or slow down combat. The amount of RP a player is willing to devote to the pet also varies wildly. Being able to swap out the classic pet for another thematic ability is nice for some characters.

Sorcerer Bloodlines in general. Emphasize a key thematic difference in the way that sorcerers approach magic compared to wizards, and also provide neat abilities to make sorcerers feel really different from each other thematically and mechanically.

Sovereign Court

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The Grenadier alchemist archetype. Get rid of the whole poison thing and instead gain a variety of new bomb delivery mechanisms.


Ranger Combat Styles - bypassing prerequisites allows Rangers to become good at a number of specialist niches without paying feat or stat taxes. But this is primarily good because feat/stat taxes are bad.

Oracle of Battles can get the Revelations Weapon Mastery (Weapon Focus/Improved Critical/Greater Weapon Focus) and Maneuver Mastery (Oracle level = BAB for CMB/Improved Manuever Feat/Greater Maneuver Feat) that scale as you level and bypass feat taxes. This is probably how Weapon Focus and the Maneuver feats should have worked to start with. Regardless, the Revelations are great.


There are numerous examples but I like options that are easy to take away for archetypes or 'sub-feats' (revelations, discoveries, arcana) mostly because its much less painful for third parties to generate materials to expand the class. Personally I think Bloodlines should have worked like mysteries that could have more revelations attached to them. At the moment the most exciting thing you can do with the Sorcerer class features is make new bloodlines which reach into redundant or nonsensical territory.

Grand Lodge

I really like archetypes that simplify or reduce some of the complicated aspects of a class. For that reason I like to dump versatile performance on the bard. In that vein I am enjoying the dirge bard archetype. I also just made a preservationist alchemist. Nothing major about him but getting to dump most of the poison focus takes my mind off worrying about even making it useful. Plus it gives access to one of the coolest in game visuals I can think of to summon a creature.

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The Qinggong archetype.


Petty Alchemy wrote:
The Qinggong archetype.

Eh, I personally prefer "Quiggong" monks, but I can see why you might be partial to the one that actually exists.


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The spell "Mad Monkeys". It's a nauseate against guys with low fort saves, a full BAB disarm every turn, tough to avoid damage, it can effect up to 4 people with its 10x10 area, and there are few things in this game cooler than a gang of rampaging monkeys.

Shadow Lodge

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The entire Inquisitor class. It gives options for melee combat, ranged combat, and even spellcasting-focus, gives you strong out-of-combat prowess, gives efficient buffs that aren't OP, gives you feats that the entire party might want, and an ability to use them if the party doesn't, gives a good spell list, and overall has no real broken or unbalanced mechanics.

Sovereign Court

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I used to dislike the Inquisitor because I thought the name was a bit silly. But mechanically it's really quite solid and versatile.


I think it's hard to identify things that are "balanced", since they will by definition be weaker than many optimal choices. It then becomes a question of where you think the "sweet spot" is.

Some design principles that I like:

1. Meaningful choices: Your options seem distinct, each with their own weaknesses and strengths.

2. Burst vs sustain tradeoff: If you out-damage the fighter, you shouldn't be able to do it all day long.

3. Clarity: No trap options.

4. Opportunity cost balancing: The strength of different abilities should be not be judged in a vacuum, but rather with an eye on what you're giving up to get them.


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I like flanking. It really encourages teamwork and positioning, and it's a simple concept that's easy for new players to learn.

Dark Archive

Sorcerer Bloodlines.

Not all are equal, some rule and some drool, but conceptually they are great. They have interesting powers and with the class skills and bonus spells they add a mechanical advantage to roleplaying a character of that type. For example, one of the more recent ones is the Div bloodline. Divs hate stuff and they like to destroy stuff. Is there an advantage in playing a Div Sorcerer as a horrible person who like to break stuff? Yes! The spells are things like Touch of Idiocy, Insect Plague and Earthquake. The Bloodline Arcana rewards you for causing more and more destruction. The Powers are about ruining your opponent's day.

It doesn't force you do do anything, you can be Lawful Good and spam Charm Person all day if you want - you are still a Sorcerer after all - but Bloodlines are very nicely designed because they reward play for living up to the blood.

And Smite Evil. Actually, the whole Pathfinder revamp of the Paladin.


I'll second the Inquisitor, and throw in the Samurai. With Resolve and Challenge, they can be a pseudo-paladin without being locked into one alignment. And the Order choices allow you to build a character who abides by a code without being forced into a single, all-encompassing code.

Also, Witch hexes. With the exception of one or two, they're a fun, flexible way to expand on a caster's options without pushing them into Superwizard territory.


Inquisitor. Rage powers (generally, rather then uber ones, as in feats should be more like this). Sorcerer bloodlines (although most of 1st lvl powers could be at will). Paladin as a whole could be considered excellent design, if not for the alignment pigeon-holing (not the problem with him being LG, but his effectiveness against anything that's not evil).


All of the Totem Based rage powers are cool. Spirit totem in particular is my favorite. I have this cool Inquisitor (with domain that grants rage) or Barbarian idea that involves the Spirit Totems use to make a Valkyrie, complete with Einherjar.


Captain K. wrote:

Sorcerer Bloodlines.

Not all are equal, some rule and some drool, but conceptually they are great.

Conceptually the sorcerer bloodlines are cool but mechanically they are a complete mess. there are a handful of really strong choices, arcane (generally good), sage (Int casting, yes please), Infernal (for charm users), Fey (for compulsions), sylvan (if you want a pet) or crossblooded draconic/orc.

Beyond that they are fairly horrible. Serpent/Undead can have some uses but they are very limited and generally way too many of the bloodlines have truly terrible abilities. Either they give you things no straight sorcerer will ever want to use (claws on draconic) or things which you don't need by the time you get it (anything that gives wings at 15 when you can probably fly from 6/7 and fly all day from 10/11).


I really like this class from DSP.

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Crane Style -> Crane Wing -> Crane Riposte. Not just because pre-errata Crane Wing was great, but because this is a feat chain that makes sense. It builds synergy.

Counter example: Dodge->Mobility->Spring Attack->Whirlwind Attack.

What does Whirlwind Attack got to do with any of the stuff before it? I've no idea.


Petty Alchemy wrote:

Crane Style -> Crane Wing -> Crane Riposte. Not just because pre-errata Crane Wing was great, but because this is a feat chain that makes sense. It builds synergy.

Counter example: Dodge->Mobility->Spring Attack->Whirlwind Attack.

What does Whirlwind Attack got to do with any of the stuff before it? I've no idea.

3.5 was apparently big on feat taxes, even if they made no sense. Unfortunately, PF still has them. The one that pisses me off is Point-Blank Shot being the prereq for all (AFAIK) archery feats, especially Far Shot. Other than both dealing with ranged attacking, they couldn't be further apart.

Shot On The Run requiring PBS doesn't make much sense either. I'd like to go even further with that one and combine all the "you can split your move action" feats into one.


Ascalaphus wrote:
The Grenadier alchemist archetype. Get rid of the whole poison thing and instead gain a variety of new bomb delivery mechanisms.

also gets rid of poison immunity -, poison resistance -, brew potion, use poison + and swift poison +. that's a lot of stuff to loss. i don't like poison myself but i do like the 3 poison resistances and poison immunity.

i also like the
preserve organs

When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on the alchemist, there is a 25% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally. can be taken up to three times.

and
Mummification

awakens as a “living mummy.” The alchemist’s type does not change, but he becomes immune to cold, nonlethal damage, paralysis, and sleep.

i have not looked up mummification in the book so i dont know if it says to look at the sleep spell as an example so as worded you don't need to sleep. will look in book to see if its sleep spells or just sleep. heres hoping sleep is a luxury.


I absolutely adore Fireball.

Great range, available fairly early, good area of effect, decent damage... What's not to love?

Also, Half Dragons. Our group allows templates from the Bestiaries, and Half Dragons are just... so nice.

I like having level 3 characters with one hit die that start with a claw claw bite... kinda weak at first, but with the stat bonuses WHOO HOO!

Also, the Erinyes devil. My favorite. Trying to convince a foolish GM to let me play one. :D

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