Cheers all
My campaign is getting close to lv 20, so I would like a bit of advice on what to do...
I have the following suggestions myself:
1: 3.5 epic rules except no single class above lv. 20 (so multiclassing or prestige classes....)
2: mythic
Since I never played in a campaign this high-level I'm unsure of the consequences...
How would a non mythic CR 21 encounter feel for a lv. 20 party with 1 mythic tier?
Are there anything in 3.5 epic rules that completely break the system?
All my PC's got some spellcasting, do the caster/martial problem is irrelevant..
---
Note: we got the epic level handbook, need to buy mythic...
Mythic rules are available on the prd. You can review them for free.
Artanthos wrote: Mythic rules are available on the prd. You can review them for free. I know, but we use a rule that only books we got in real books can be used.
My question was how mythic deals with challenge rating...
Would a lv 10 fighter and a lv 8 with 2 mythic tiers fighter be equal?
From everything I've seen, a couple mythic tiers really ratchet up the power level of PCs. You will be required to use mythic enemies to challenge them as they become literally immune from things that don't come from a mythic source.
My understanding is that Mythic and Epic aren't really at all related to one another.
Bacon666 wrote: Artanthos wrote: Mythic rules are available on the prd. You can review them for free. I know, but we use a rule that only books we got in real books can be used.
My question was how mythic deals with challenge rating...
Would a lv 10 fighter and a lv 8 with 2 mythic tiers fighter be equal? Probably not. Depending on the build the fighter 8 tier 2 character is going to win the fight over the fighter 10.
Claxon wrote: From everything I've seen, a couple mythic tiers really ratchet up the power level of PCs. You will be required to use mythic enemies to challenge them as they become literally immune from things that don't come from a mythic source.
My understanding is that Mythic and Epic aren't really at all related to one another.
.
Thanks... I'll probably go 3.5 epic unless some1 got experiences against it...
Bacon666 wrote: Artanthos wrote: Mythic rules are available on the prd. You can review them for free. I know, but we use a rule that only books we got in real books can be used. Wait, I'm confused.
The PRD is by Paizo. What you get from it is literally a copy and paste of the text from their print books. The only thing you're missing is the illustrations and the table numbers. How are the rules included in the PRD not from "real books"?
Bacon666 wrote: Claxon wrote: From everything I've seen, a couple mythic tiers really ratchet up the power level of PCs. You will be required to use mythic enemies to challenge them as they become literally immune from things that don't come from a mythic source.
My understanding is that Mythic and Epic aren't really at all related to one another.
.
Thanks... I'll probably go 3.5 epic unless some1 got experiences against it... I've done both and after using Pathfinder Mythic, I wouldn't touch 3.5 epic with a ten foot pole.
I also would not wait until 20 for mythic, I'd kick in a mythic rank as they are now if I was going to use it at all. Beauty of the system is that there are nice guidelines for using mythic as temporary ranks instead of permanent.
Phoebus Alexandros wrote: Bacon666 wrote: Artanthos wrote: Mythic rules are available on the prd. You can review them for free. I know, but we use a rule that only books we got in real books can be used. Wait, I'm confused.
The PRD is by Paizo. What you get from it is literally a copy and paste of the text from their print books. The only thing you're missing is the illustrations and the table numbers. How are the rules included in the PRD not from "real books"? We get equal possibilities for everybody...
I have a few players who will and can use hours cruising around finding obscure builds, and other players who barely manages to read up on spells that are suggested to them.
This is both a time and a language problem.
Our sollution is that only books we got as hard copy are allowed...
LazarX wrote: Bacon666 wrote: Claxon wrote: From everything I've seen, a couple mythic tiers really ratchet up the power level of PCs. You will be required to use mythic enemies to challenge them as they become literally immune from things that don't come from a mythic source.
My understanding is that Mythic and Epic aren't really at all related to one another.
.
Thanks... I'll probably go 3.5 epic unless some1 got experiences against it... I've done both and after using Pathfinder Mythic, I wouldn't touch 3.5 epic with a ten foot pole.
I also would not wait until 20 for mythic, I'd kick in a mythic rank as they are now if I was going to use it at all. Beauty of the system is that there are nice guidelines for using mythic as temporary ranks instead of permanent. What's wrong with epic? And does mythic work with non mythic encounters?
It also keeps electronic devices away from tables which some groups appreciate.
Bacon666 wrote: Thanks... I'll probably go 3.5 epic unless some1 got experiences against it... In the hands of a creative and flexible GM, characters of such power have the opportunity to experience sensational adventures, make truly unique discoveries, dictate the course of history and seek to change the world to suit their tastes. Sadly, not all GMs who are enthusiastic about epic-level play have that requisite creativity and flexibility; the results are... monotonous. In the two campaigns I've played in and the vast majority I've heard of, all it amounted to was "Explore the really ludicrous dungeon! Kill the really ludicrous monsters! Loot the really ludicrous treasure!" I believe that the presentation and design of the 3.5 epic rules inadvertently encouraged the GM to limit himself to the latter; I don't know enough about Mythic Adventures to offer an opinion on that.
So I suppose my advice, whatever rules set(s) you choose, is to do what you can to present an adventure that couldn't have happened without that power level/rules set. Go for spectacle, and don't be afraid to let the players drive. They already paid their dues in the monster-bashing, dungeon-crawling department.
Mythic is considered 2 ranks of mythic as adding 1 to the CR. So 2 ranks in mythinc is = 1 rank in level (theoretically).
Now in theory there is no difference between Theory and Practice... in Practice there is.
How much a mythic rank will help compared ot a regular level will vary based on build/class/level of character. For example a wizard gets more leveling to 15 (Bonus feat and new spell level) then he gets leveling to 16.
Question if you are considering epic 3.5 but no class above levle 20. How are you intending to work casting level? Does a Wizard 20/Loremaster 10 have a 30 or a 20 for casting level?
Using some foes from the Epic handbook you will need a higher casting level just to break SR.
If you drop anything from Epic.. I would drop Epic spell casting... while neat it is very open to abuse.
Epic can be fun to play or run (have done both) I am still trying to get the group I am with to experiment with mythic.
Bacon666 wrote: LazarX wrote: Bacon666 wrote: Claxon wrote: From everything I've seen, a couple mythic tiers really ratchet up the power level of PCs. You will be required to use mythic enemies to challenge them as they become literally immune from things that don't come from a mythic source.
My understanding is that Mythic and Epic aren't really at all related to one another.
.
Thanks... I'll probably go 3.5 epic unless some1 got experiences against it... I've done both and after using Pathfinder Mythic, I wouldn't touch 3.5 epic with a ten foot pole.
I also would not wait until 20 for mythic, I'd kick in a mythic rank as they are now if I was going to use it at all. Beauty of the system is that there are nice guidelines for using mythic as temporary ranks instead of permanent. What's wrong with epic? And does mythic work with non mythic encounters? It's non-rachetable, it starts by being over the top, and doesn't get any better. And you have to wait until 21st level to use it. And that's not even counting the mess that is Epic Spellcasting.
Mythic on the other hand can be workable straight from level 1 if yoiu want it. And it works well with non-mythic encounters. Mythic's impact varies at the level you introduce it at. many of the abilities are more powerful at high levels, because they are force multipliers. a single mythic tier can do a lot more to a level 10 character than a level 1.
And best of all, it's completely independent of experience progression.
I have played mythic for a while... 2 MR = 1 CR is bullshit. More like 1 to 1.
Sissyl wrote: I have played mythic for a while... 2 MR = 1 CR is b~#+$@*#. More like 1 to 1. Why I added the comment on Practice and Theory. I have not had any practice with mythic sadly.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I agree with Lazar - if you're going to go mythic, go mythic sooner rather than later.
Whilst the mythic rules can be used as post-20 advancement, that advancement is strictly limited: you gain hp, mythic powers, mythic feats, and some very nifty abilities, but the lack of additional skill points, BAB, saving throws, spellcasting and so forth can severely limit the improvements the players are seeing, that they have spent 20 levels seeing improvement in. So while their characters are undeniably "improving", they aren't improving in the way they're used to. Mythic makes existing abilities broader and more powerful, but the scope for actually improving the numbers on the character sheet is quite small.
I've found at low levels, the 2 mythic = 1 level is pretty good. At higher levels they are 1-1 or even more favorable to the mythic side.
Mythic is a force multiplier. It does not scale in a linear fashion when combined with character level.
Sissyl wrote: I have played mythic for a while... 2 MR = 1 CR is b*&~$#*~. More like 1 to 1. I would suspect that most of your mythic has been in the upper tier of levels, the 16-20 range. At that level the mythic tiers are a much greater force multiplier than they are at the bottom five.
Artanthos wrote: Mythic is a force multiplier. It does not scale in a linear fashion when combined with character level. Something like: (character level) x (half of mythic ranks rounded up) = suitable challenge rating?
|
