Daze and Flat Footed Condition

[Val'bryn2]

Okay, just got done with a Pathfinder Society module yesterday, and a situation came up that I would like your input on:

Our group was fighting against a team of bandits, and our party's wizard rolled very well for initiative. His first action was to cast Daze on the bandit leader, who promptly failed his save. Now, our rogue, that is me, had already acted and gotten a round of sneak attacks. However, a bit of confusion arose now: since the Daze spell prevents action but does not lower the character's AC at all, would my character get a second round of sneak attacks, or not?

[Caïen]

'Flat-footed:
A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, unable to react normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC and Combat Maneuver Defense (CMD) (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity, unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat or Uncanny Dodge class ability.

Characters with Uncanny Dodge retain their Dexterity bonus to their AC and can make attacks of opportunity before they have acted in the first round of combat.'

If you casted Daze on the bandit before he would act, that means he would still be flat-footed until he acts. So, that is a good use of that spell.

Yes, you would have another round of sneak attack.

[Dasrak]

The flat-footed condition stipulates that creatures who have not yet acted are flat-footed, and the daze spell prevented the bandit leader from acting on his first turn. It's a pretty technical arguement, but I'd agree the bandit leader should remain flat-footed as a result. Seems like you should get a second round of sneak attacks.

[Diego Rossi]

èquote=DAZE]This spell clouds the mind of a humanoid creature with 4 or fewer Hit Dice so that it takes no actions.

Even it someone hasn't taken any action, that is not the same thing as "hasn't acted". His turn has come and his action has been "take no action".

And the complete description of flat footed is:

PRD wrote:

Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can't use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues of high enough level have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which means that they cannot be caught flat-footed. Characters with uncanny dodge retain their Dexterity bonus to their AC and can make attacks of opportunity before they have acted in the first round of combat. A flat-footed character can't make attacks of opportunity, unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat.è/quote+

That "pecifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order" is even more telling. It is not important what you have done, your first turn has come and passed, so you are no more flat footed, even if an enemy has rendered you unconscious before you had any chance to act and you have been later cured by an ally.

[Fromper]

I think I agree with Diego. Daze specifically says that they don't lose AC due to the dazed condition, so their dex still applies. They got a turn in the first round, they just weren't able to do anything useful with it, other than to stop being flat footed.

[Claxon]

I concur with Diego. Not flat-footed.

[Zhayne]

I concur with Claxon's concurrence of Fromper's concurrence of Diego.

[Val'bryn2]

Okay, I just wanted to check other people's opinions. It was ruled that the bandit was no longer flatfooted, due to Daze not penalizing your AC, which means you can react, just not act. I just realized it was a bit of a grey area in the rules, and so wanted to hear from others.

[Fromper]

Well, there is a reason I said "I think" I agree with Diego. I could be convinced to change my mind if someone had a good argument. Definitely a grey area that I could see going either way.

[Zhayne]

Not really ... it's crystal clear. Even if you can't take actions, you still get your turn. Once you get your first regular turn, you are no longer flat footed.