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How would I price a Collar of Strong Jaw. Effect: 3 time per day the wearer of the collar is effected by the Strong Jaw spell for ten minutes each time minimum caster level.
Strong Jaw
Source Advanced Player's Guide pg. 1
School transmutation; Level druid 4, ranger 3
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Effect
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw Fortitude negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
Description
Laying a hand upon an allied creature’s jaw, claws, tentacles, or other natural weapons, you enhance the power of that creature’s natural attacks. Each natural attack that creature makes deals damage as if the creature were two sizes larger than it actually is. If the creature is already Gargantuan or Colossal-sized, double the amount of damage dealt by each of its natural attacks instead. This spell does not actually change the creature’s size; all of its statistics except the amount of damage dealt by its natural attacks remain unchanged.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Sort of does what Monk's Robes does.
Price based on Monk's Robes at a discounted 10,000 gp and consider like level 2 of the ability. So Cloak of Resistance +1 is 1,000 gp a CoR+2 is 4,000 gp. So Start with 40,000 gp.
Compare to the continuous effect item cost to make sure that isn't more. If it is more, use the higher.
Given that a monk's unarmed damage dice never get so large as to double without serious tomfoolery and this item can be used on something to double the damage dice, I'd price it as a good deal more expensive than Monk's Robes. Especially when the Vital Strike feat chain comes into play.
In order to correctly price it, we need to know what you, yourself, would use it for, and how badly this item could be abused in a hypothetical scenario. So, here's the hypothetical scenario. This is put on a T-rex with Greater Vital Strike. It now has another whopping handful of d6s and a lot more average damage. Probably worth more.
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Maybe this will help:
Aura: moderate transmutation and enchantment; CL 7th
Slot: neck; Price: 10080gp ; Weight: 1 lb.
Description:
1/day command word activated; the collar casts Strong Jaw on the wearer.
Construction:
Requirements: Craft Wondrous Item; Strong Jaw, Cost 5040gp
Math:
4 x 7 x 1800 = 50400 (spell level x caster level x 1800 for Command Word)
total = 50400 / 5 (1 charge per day)
Final = 10080gp
Definitely "spell in a can," but it would be pretty cool to put something like this on an animal companion.
You can't make an Impact AoMF. You can't apply the effects to light weapons, which unarmed strikes and natural attacks are.
The item you are looking for already exists. An Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Impact property.
Think harder.
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New Maths, because OP asked for 3/day:
4 x 7 x 1800 = 50400 (spell level x caster level x 1800 for Command Word)
total = 50400 / (5/3) (3 charges per day)
Final Price = 30240gp
Final Cost = 15120gp
Also:
In order to correctly price it, we need to know what you, yourself, would use it for, and how badly this item could be abused in a hypothetical scenario. So, here's the hypothetical scenario.
Yes, I agree.
Tomos was close, but to get the 10 minute duration the OP ask for it would be 4 * 10 * 1800 / (5/3) = 43200 gp to buy, 21600 gp to craft.
If you're fine with a 7 minute duration, 3 times/day, the prices Tomos listed are 100% correct.
You can't make an Impact AoMF. You can't apply the effects to light weapons, which unarmed strikes and natural attacks are.
You also can't make a 3/day Strong Jaw item. Not without designing a custom item, that is. If we're designing custom items, you absolutely can have an Impact AoMF. Such an item wouldn't be hard to price, either.
That said, I think Strong Jaw is quite a bit better than the Impact ability, since it's two steps rather than one.
All things considered, an Impact AoMF would cost 16,000gp and and item "twice as good" should cost at least 32,000gp for an always on item, which is less than the prices Tomos and CrazyGnomes have put forth. I don't think following the suggested pricing guidelines yields an item that's too inexpensive in this case. I would go with the formula.
You can't make an Impact AoMF. You can't apply the effects to light weapons, which unarmed strikes and natural attacks are.You also can't make a 3/day Strong Jaw item. Not without designing a custom item, that is. If we're designing custom items, you absolutely can have an Impact AoMF. Such an item wouldn't be hard to price, either.
Amulet of Mighty Fists: Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks.
Impact: This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons that are not light weapons.
Unarmed Strike: An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.
Arachnofiend is technically correct, you can't make an impact amulet of mighty fists. You can design a custom magic item with the same effect as a hypothetical impact amulet of mighty fists but you're creating a custom item, not an amulet of mighty fists.
Arachnofiend is technically correct, you can't make an impact amulet of mighty fists. You can design a custom magic item with the same effect as a hypothetical impact amulet of mighty fists but you're creating a custom item, not an amulet of mighty fists.
You also can't make a 3/day Strong Jaw item. Not without designing a custom item, that is. If we're designing custom items, you absolutely can have an Impact AoMF. Such an item wouldn't be hard to price, either.
Custom items don't follow the rules of non-custom items, if they did, they wouldn't be custom items. Custom items can do whatever the designer wants.
If it makes it easier for you to understand: Custom Items == House Rules.|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Tomos was close, but to get the 10 minute duration the OP ask for it would be 4 * 10 * 1800 / (5/3) = 43200 gp to buy, 21600 gp to craft.
If you're fine with a 7 minute duration, 3 times/day, the prices Tomos listed are 100% correct.
There is practically no difference between 3/day for 10 minutes and continuous. You get it for every combat of the day.
The only difference is probably out of combat action economy and cost (continuous = 2,000*2*4*10 = 160,000)
Any way you look at it this should be an expensive item. I'd be very uncomfortable with any price below 40,000 in a game I'm running.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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After seeing the Pricing I Think I would change it to 1x a day for 7 min. Command word activated for 10.800gp
Its for my animal companion. A custom animal companion a Skaith Hound which is a dog large sized.
Probably too cheap to allow, so ask your GM (especially since you as a player can't set or calculate prices only the GM can do so.)
But your animal would need to be able to activate an item, and it certainly can't do so with Int 2. Whether or not it can at Int 3 is up to the rules in Animal Archive and/or the GM. I don't recall and didn't look it up before posting this.
A dog can't speak, so it could have Int 20 and it still couldn't use command word.
Arachnofiend is technically correct, you can't make an impact amulet of mighty fists. You can design a custom magic item with the same effect as a hypothetical impact amulet of mighty fists but you're creating a custom item, not an amulet of mighty fists.
You also can't make a 3/day Strong Jaw item. Not without designing a custom item, that is. If we're designing custom items, you absolutely can have an Impact AoMF. Such an item wouldn't be hard to price, either.Custom items don't follow the rules of non-custom items, if they did, they wouldn't be custom items. Custom items can do whatever the designer wants.
If it makes it easier for you to understand: Custom Items == House Rules.
A custom item is not the same thing as a non-custom item that does something similar. Just because you create a similar item with an effect not normally allowed allowed by an amulet of mighty fists does not make the custom item you created an amulet of mighty fists. It's still its own separate custom item.
And custom items are not the same as house rules. If I create a custom item that fills the neck slot, gives a +1 enhancement bonus to my unarmed/natural attacks, and increases the effective size of those unarmed/natural attacks, that's within the normal item creation guidelines for custom items. If I instead say impact can be applied to an amulet of mighty fists, despite the rules relating to light weapons, then I'm creating my own house rules.
A dog can't speak, so it could have Int 20 and it still couldn't use command word.
But a barbarian with natural attacks can.
After seeing the Pricing I Think I would change it to 1x a day for 7 min. Command word activated for 10.800gp
Its for my animal companion. A custom animal companion a Skaith Hound which is a dog large sized.
James Risner and The Purity of Violence are correct, your animal intelligence, non-speaking dog won't be able to activate a command word item. If you want this item for your animal companion, you're looking at a continuous effect item, costing 4 * 7 * 2000 = 56000 gp to buy, 28000 gp to craft.
There is a collar (not legal in PFS) that allows an animal to speak a language. IIRC.
That would share the same slot as this proposed item, since they're both collars. The only collar I could find was the collar of beast-speech, from a 3PP.
And custom items are not the same as house rules.His point is that they are house rules, because any custom item needs to be created, designed, and balanced by the GM. So it is a defacto house rule.
There are also rules in Pathfinder for a GM to create, design, and balance encounters. Does that mean that every encounter is a de facto house rule? No, because using the rules of the game as intended is not the same thing as a house rule.
House rules are when you change existing rules or create new rules.
You can't make an Impact AoMF. You can't apply the effects to light weapons, which unarmed strikes and natural attacks are.You also can't make a 3/day Strong Jaw item. Not without designing a custom item, that is. If we're designing custom items, you absolutely can have an Impact AoMF. Such an item wouldn't be hard to price, either.
That said, I think Strong Jaw is quite a bit better than the Impact ability, since it's two steps rather than one.
All things considered, an Impact AoMF would cost 16,000gp and and item "twice as good" should cost at least 32,000gp for an always on item, which is less than the prices Tomos and CrazyGnomes have put forth. I don't think following the suggested pricing guidelines yields an item that's too inexpensive in this case. I would go with the formula.
This is only semi custom at worst. There are explicit rules for creating items like this. It is like saying that since there is not an entry for a Wand of Fireballs that creating one is a custom item.
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Think harder.The item you are looking for already exists. An Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Impact property.
I did.
Asking for an item that casts Strong Jaw all the time is similar to asking for an item that casts True Strike.
It's an interesting theorycraft, but should never be permitted in a game.
Think harder.The item you are looking for already exists. An Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Impact property.
I did.
Asking for an item that casts Strong Jaw all the time is similar to asking for an item that casts True Strike.
It's an interesting theorycraft, but should never be permitted in a game.
But we are talking about a 3X per day command word activated item like a Scabbard of Keen Edges.
House rules are when you change existing rules or create new rules.And custom items are not the same as house rules.His point is that they are house rules, because any custom item needs to be created, designed, and balanced by the GM. So it is a defacto house rule.
House rules are also when you change existing items or create new items. Or are magic items not part of the rules?
Asking for an item that casts Strong Jaw all the time is similar to asking for an item that casts True Strike.
It's an interesting theorycraft, but should never be permitted in a game.
The big problem with true strike is that it is a standard action casting time, range personal spell that affects only your next attack. Translating that into a continuous item that can be worn by anyone that affects all attacks breaks the limitations on it. On the other hand, strong jaw is a range touch spell that has a minutes/level duration (minimum 7 minutes), which is similar to other spell-in-a-can items that are permitted in the game (cape of the mountebank, lantern of revealing).
House rules are when you change existing rules or create new rules.House rules are also when you change existing items or create new items. Or are magic items not part of the rules?
Magic items are not rules. Changing an existing magic item is not changing an existing rule. Creating a new item is not creating a new rule.
Are magic items part of the rules? Sure, and changing the rules for magic item creation would be a house rule. Using the magic item creation rules to create a magic item? No, that's not a house rule.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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continuous effect item, costing 4 * 7 * 2000 = 56000 gp to buy, 28000 gp to craft.
You missed the 2x multiplier I included above since it is 1 minute duration.
Using the magic item creation rules to create a magic item? No, that's not a house rule.
There are no creation rules. Only guidelines for the GM to make new house rules in the form of new item stat blocks that include cost, etc.
But you understand this, so let us chalk it up to a difference in perspective. I think all item creation that isn't an existing item is a new house rule, and you don't.
continuous effect item, costing 4 * 7 * 2000 = 56000 gp to buy, 28000 gp to craft.You missed the 2x multiplier I included above since it is 1 minute duration.
My bad, I thought there was a rule to that effect but kept on missing the footnotes beneath the table. You are correct, 112,000 gp to buy, 56,000 gp to craft.
There are probably a lot better ways to invest your money than to give your animal companion an item that costs more than a 12th level characters total wealth.
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OP could probably save some gp (and this headache) by using his Craft Wondrous feat to make a Beast-Bond Brand instead.
It's only 500gp to craft and accomplishes almost exactly what he's trying to do with this collar: get Strong Jaw onto his companion in combat.
The only downside is that it must be reapplied after 2 uses for Strong Jaw (4th level spell), unless he's a Ranger, then 3 uses.
You could probably make a bunch of this paste and keep it stored until you need to reapply.
It will be astronomically more expensive to make this custom item when you can get a nearly identical effect from using this cheapo one.
You just have to prep Strong Jaw each day and cast it during battle (at close range, minimum 40' @ CL 7) or get your party Wizard to scribe some scrolls of it with you.
Your action economy doesn't change... it's a standard action to use the BBB or to do the Command Word activation of the item.
Think of what else you could buy with your 10,000+ gp...
You can't make an Impact AoMF. You can't apply the effects to light weapons, which unarmed strikes and natural attacks are.You also can't make a 3/day Strong Jaw item. Not without designing a custom item, that is. If we're designing custom items, you absolutely can have an Impact AoMF. Such an item wouldn't be hard to price, either.
That said, I think Strong Jaw is quite a bit better than the Impact ability, since it's two steps rather than one.
All things considered, an Impact AoMF would cost 16,000gp and and item "twice as good" should cost at least 32,000gp for an always on item, which is less than the prices Tomos and CrazyGnomes have put forth. I don't think following the suggested pricing guidelines yields an item that's too inexpensive in this case. I would go with the formula.
The argument was that the item the OP is looking for already exists because you can make an Impact AoMF. This is untrue, because by RAW you cannot. You can homebrew an item with such an effect, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that in my opinion.
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Impact AoMF is not the same as Strong Jaw. AoMF W/impact only increases
the damage step of a fist by one size Category strong jaw increases it by
2. So the Item does not exist. I am making a custom item for a home game for an animal companion. As far as a command word the AC is within 30 ft of the master most of the time so his master could say the command word as the master and his brothers crafted the Item.
Lets step back a moment. Do you really need strong-jaw specifically, or are you just trying to beef-up your ac a bit? Whats wrong with a flaming aomf? It boosts damage and saves headaches... items that directly boost attack damage should be priced as +s anyway, so if you absolutely needed strong jaw, id price as a +2 or +3 weapon enchantment.