Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
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Talonguard (NG) K
Settlement: Golgotha (LE) W
Keepers of the Circle AB
Aragon (CN) X
Ozem's Vigil E
Dagedai Alliance L
Forgeholm B
Thod's Friends V
Hammerfall Z
Tavernhold F
Blackwood Glade Y
Kabal D
The Phoenix Brotherhood O
Freevale I
Elkhaven G
Les Compagnons AD
Mystical Awakening AA
Eastern Sun H
Hammerfist Clan M
Brains and Brawn S
Agents of Erastil AC
Reading Between the Lines R
The Gauntlet C
Terra Australis Incognito J
vVv Gaming A
The Iron Gauntlet U
Golarion Liberators N
Librarians of Doom Q
The Guardians P
The Bastard Sons of Daggermark T
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Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
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Whaaaat? No play-by-play this week? Or still writing it? :D
Yeah, I realized I forgot that as soon as I hit send.
We had a lot of ranking changes without any settlememt changes, like Hammerfall moving up. Kabal moved to F and Tavenrhold to J, but not a lot of other movement in the top end. In the mid range Mystical Awakening moved to C, but the real movement was in the bottom eight as everyone except for Librarians of Doom moved (and the Librarians of DOom sure are building up that hunker down bonus in Q). Terra Australis Incognito and the Guardians get on the board for the first time, causing a lot of the movement in the lower end. Still most people seem happy where they are, but I will be curious over time if the smaller guilds will start joining the larger.
We are just about at the point where you need 8 people to show up on the leader board, so all you settlements with only a handful of people start looking for one of the bigger settlements to sign up with! It's a joiner's market right now and there has to be someone already on the board that's close to your alignment, playstyle, etc. Five people aren't going to win settlements at the end of this, so it's better to make a deal now to live in one of the settlements as part of a team of your choosing than be a master of your fate without a home.
Unless that's how you role, all stoic and loner like, sitting alone in the corner of the tavern.
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Goblin Squad Member
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J is now Terra Australis Incognito. It was Tavernhold, but Tavernhold moved to back to their spot at F, while Kabal left F and moved to D supplanting The Gauntlet. The Gauntlet is on C, vice Mystical Awakening, who is now on Zombie Kitteh Mountain where VVV was. VVV moved onto the big mountain next to Forgeholm; Otium Explorator got kicked off the map from that spot.
Also, Bastard Sons of Daggermark bumped to T; Four Rivers is gone.
I think that's everything. In the bottom 8, Iron Gauntlet, Golarion Liberators, and Librarians of Doom all kept their spots, so Lee is crazy or the map isn't properly updated!
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Goblin Squad Member
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We had a lot of ranking changes without any settlememt changes, like Hammerfall moving up. Kabal moved from F and Tavernhold from J, but not a lot of other movement in the top end. In the mid range Mystical Awakening moved from C ....
FTFY
... all stoic and loner like, sitting alone in the corner of the tavern.
and if that's your thing, why not Join Tavernhold?
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Goblin Squad Member
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... all stoic and loner like, sitting alone in the corner of the tavern.and if that's your thing, why not Join Tavernhold?
Probably one of the better shameless plugs I've seen in a while. ;)
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Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
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Terra Australis Incognito and the Guardians get on the board for the first time, causing a lot of the movement in the lower end.Lee, I wonder if you could address speculation about why Four Rivers didn't have enough "hunker Down" bonus to hold their hex Against the Bastard Sons?
Thus far the list we've been outputting has been ordered by number of members, and then age of settlement, cut off at thirty settlements (not including the three early placers). I've only used the hunker down bonus between settlements on that list, and Four Rivers was a younger guild than Bastard Sons so they didn't place on the list (also by age Otium Explorers also placed higher than Four Rivers).
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Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
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J is now Terra Australis Incognito. It was Tavernhold, but Tavernhold moved to back to their spot at F, while Kabal left F and moved to D supplanting The Gauntlet. The Gauntlet is on C, vice Mystical Awakening, who is now on Zombie Kitteh Mountain where VVV was. VVV moved onto the big mountain next to Forgeholm; Otium Explorator got kicked off the map from that spot.
Also, Bastard Sons of Daggermark bumped to T; Four Rivers is gone.
I think that's everything. In the bottom 8, Iron Gauntlet, Golarion Liberators, and Librarians of Doom all kept their spots, so Lee is crazy or the map isn't properly updated!
Eh, this is what happens when I try to write the play by play afterwards rather than during as I forget where all the big movers went.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thus far the list we've been outputting has been ordered by number of members, and then age of settlement, cut off at thirty settlements (not including the three early placers). I've only used the hunker down bonus between settlements on that list
So based on this rule, hunker down will not keep you on the map; it will just give you a bonus to keep the spot you prefer rather than bouncing around the map if your population and age keep you in the top 30.
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Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
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Thus far the list we've been outputting has been ordered by number of members, and then age of settlement, cut off at thirty settlements (not including the three early placers). I've only used the hunker down bonus between settlements on that listSo based on this rule, hunker down will not keep you on the map; it will just give you a bonus to keep the spot you prefer rather than bouncing around the map if your population and age keep you in the top 30.
Yes. If people think this is an unfair rule, since we weren't specific beforehand I'm not steadfast against changing it. This rule does make it simpler on my end, but so few things in life are simple.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thus far the list we've been outputting has been ordered by number of members, and then age of settlement, cut off at thirty settlements (not including the three early placers). I've only used the hunker down bonus between settlements on that list, and Four Rivers was a younger guild than Bastard Sons so they didn't place on the list (also by age Otium Explorers also placed higher than Four Rivers).Terra Australis Incognito and the Guardians get on the board for the first time, causing a lot of the movement in the lower end.Lee, I wonder if you could address speculation about why Four Rivers didn't have enough "hunker Down" bonus to hold their hex Against the Bastard Sons?
Ouch. I think the blog should address that.
So it really only effects which settlement you get if you are top 30, not whether you get one?
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Goblin Squad Member
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After a quick poll, everyone in my guild (The Iron Gauntlet) was under the impression that the hunker down bonus would keep you from being bumped off of the leader board by a guild that didn't surpass your hunker down modified membership total.
The hunker down bonus is already weaker then we thought it should be (with large groups able to bump anyone and shift around constantly), this ruling just makes the bonus that much more useless... And very disappointing.
We are all of the opinion that the 'simple method' cheats guilds out of a bonus they should have earned by being active and involved in the land rush process... And favor the bonus helping guilds hold their position from all takers.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I tend to agree, I was under the impression that it would be a global protection, not only in effect if you were still on the leaderboard.
On one hand, it means that every settlement will go to one of the official top 30. On the other hand, it does seem to be a fairly weak protection for those most at risk. The people it was intended to protect?
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Goblin Squad Member
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The actual text of the "Rushing" blog post says "Each week a guild remains in the same location, they get a bonus to their population when determining if another guild can displace them."
My intuitive understanding of this language is that it should count for keeping a guild on the map. However, Lee's explanation that it's only against relocation is also a plausible reading of the text.
I think I'm fine with the relocation-only bonus. If you're small enough that you need to worry about dropping off the board, you should be allying, not turtling. If you do stay on the board, then hunker-down gives you a better chance at keeping the specific spot you prefer, at least against comparably sized opposition.
If there's a huge outcry that it should go the other way, I'd be fine with that too, with the comment that the more time Lee has to spend on updating the land rush the less time he has for everything else, so simpler is probably better if it's a close decision.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Small groups, team up. Big groups, be welcoming. Seems everyone just wants to complain every time GW makes a blog entry, or even a single post. Stop being so natty. The map will expand a few more time in the next year or two. We will all be moving eventually.
Yep, plenty of room in Kabal for the small groups who fear not getting a settlement. I think we are going for K next week, so we will need all the votes we can get!
[Of course, what I THINK and what I KNOW are usually two separate things.} :-)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Small groups, team up. Big groups, be welcoming. Seems everyone just wants to complain every time GW makes a blog entry, or even a single post. Stop being so natty. The map will expand a few more time in the next year or two. We will all be moving eventually.
Come off it. He asked if people had a different opinion on how it should work. People responded. That kind of rhetoric just makes people shut up and not voice their opinion. The exact opposite of what we want people to be doing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I never understood the hunker-down feature to be a safe-guard against falling from the map, tbh. I hope it stays this way, because now you can actually hope to see some more merges, with groups that have fallen off joining someone higher on the list.
I would prefer more incentive to mergers, rather then increasing the spots on the maps for the landrush. We could see more "Kabal" like entries in the next weeks, so those unclaimed settlement hexes could be filling up fast then.
I'll admit some self-interest is at play here, since I am eyeing Otium Explorator, who just fell off the map, for Freevale. :)
Spoiler is in Dutch....
Hebben jullie misschien ergens een website?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have to admit I always assumed it is the way it is now.
Otherwise who is in the top 30 depends on who wants your spot. If someone else bigger takes it, then you lose the bonus - you are no longer at that spot - and are out.
The algorithm would be more complex as you would have 2 entries - one with the bonus, one without. Could be done ...
But yes - you need to stay inside the top 30 first was always my assumption. Interestingly it seems movement increases now instead of getting less as you would expect that things settled down more - not the opposite.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Lee, I also believe that a plain-text reading of your blog language leads to the belief that you'll not be knocked out if your Hunker Down bonus keeps you in your spot. I don't believe being in the Top 30 vote-totals without Hunker Down should be made a criterion superior to that.
EDIT: Thod's comments before mine show that my wording above was appropriate: it's only my *belief* that my plain-text interpretation is correct; there's room for well-meaning interpretation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If people think this is an unfair rule, since we weren't specific beforehand I'm not steadfast against changing it. This rule does make it simpler on my end, but so few things in life are simple.
I think it's fair.
I'll admit I didn't think it was going to be the case, but other folks in T7V always assumed the top 30 would be skimmed off before any bonuses were applied. I really don't think it's unfair at all.
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I think the valuable lesson to be learned here is this: we're building the airplane in the air, and the devs are not always going to be able to clearly communicate their design intentions on the first try in a way that doesn't lead to temporary misperceptions, and that's OK.
I think we all need to be prepared for many more moments of "that's not the way you said that was going to work" followed by "oh, you thought we meant this other thing? No, we meant this all along."
We need to decide to feel comfortable with that as the price of being involved in the development process, rather than waiting to be handed a fully operational and well-documented battlestation on OE day.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Small groups, team up. Big groups, be welcoming. Seems everyone just wants to complain every time GW makes a blog entry, or even a single post. Stop being so natty. The map will expand a few more time in the next year or two. We will all be moving eventually.Come off it. He asked if people had a different opinion on how it should work. People responded. That kind of rhetoric just makes people shut up and not voice their opinion. The exact opposite of what we want people to be doing.
Wrong. It is the incessant complaining that is so tiresome. Look. Small groups of 7 or 8 players are not going to be able to hold a settlement for long anyway. We all want more people, but those groups especially need more people. The "hunker down" bonus, as imperfect as the calculations or formula may be, is just that...a bonus. It is not going to save a group with less than a few dozen members once "it hits the fan".
Small groups of 7 or 8 players are not going to be able to hold a settlement for long anyway.
The fallacy here is assuming that the small groups of 7 or 8 players will remain thus. What happens to all the people who didn't get settlements, though? They look for ones with a familiar style.
Not everybody is going to go to the big settlements, because those may not fit what the displaced folk want. As long as the small settlements that remain managed to distinguish themselves, they'll get a whole bunch of new folk when the landrush is finalized.
And if they didn't distinguish themselves...well, like you said, they were doomed anyways.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Small groups of 7 or 8 players are not going to be able to hold a settlement for long anyway.The fallacy here is assuming that the small groups of 7 or 8 players will remain thus. What happens to all the people who didn't get settlements, though? They look for ones with a familiar style.
Not everybody is going to go to the big settlements, because those may not fit what the displaced folk want. As long as the small settlements that remain managed to distinguish themselves, they'll get a whole bunch of new folk when the landrush is finalized.
And if they didn't distinguish themselves...well, like you said, they were doomed anyways.
And how are they going to distinguish themselves if they don't have a contact website? Minor gripe of mine. We can't help them and they can't help us because we can't contact them.
I think maybe an email from GW going out to everyone telling them to pay attention to the GW blogs if they want to participate in the land rush, might be in order to wake up these people and get them to pay attention to what is going on. I assume such an email can go out since we had to provide such with our mailing addresses to get our stuff when it was ready.
If that happened, I think we would see massive shifts in numbers. None of the 30 slots would be safe then. Which would be both exciting and terrifying for us all. All carefully laid plans by various groups going up in smoke as hexes bounce from week to week from one group to another. :-)
I would really like that email sent out this week, if possible, rather than week 10 or 11. ;-)
And how are they going to distinguish themselves if they don't have a contact website?
Most of those groups aren't getting a settlement, though. :P
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Goblin Squad Member
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And how are they going to distinguish themselves if they don't have a contact website? Minor gripe of mine. We can't help them and they can't help us because we can't contact them.
I think maybe an email from GW going out to everyone telling them to pay attention to the GW blogs if they want to participate in the land rush, might be in order to wake up these people and get them to pay attention to what is going on. I assume such an email can go out since we had to provide such with our mailing addresses to get our stuff when it was ready.
If that happened, I think we would see massive shifts in numbers. None of the 30 slots would be safe then. Which would be both exciting and terrifying for us all. All carefully laid plans by various groups going up in smoke as hexes bounce from week to week from one group to another. :-)
I would really like that email sent out this week, if possible, rather than week 10 or 11. ;-)
Yes. That is a problem. I tried to contact maybe a dozen of the smaller ones and most either have no site at all or if they claim to have one it is dysfunctional (or not paid up for a few subscriber sites). Legit concern. Late last year I was making the rounds to over half of the first land rush groups (ones that had 10 or more votes at that time) and many were not locatable. Granted, the real land rush was a long way off and they didn't have to worry TOO much at that early date. But no the new land rush is upon us and that are still very tiny. Some might surprise us with a rush of new members, shaking up the leaderboard. That would make things interesting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hunker down.
My understanding is as follows.
If "Fluffy Bunny Co" is holding Hex A with 20 folks and has been holding Hex A for two weeks, when "Loco Emu Co" of 22 folks appear and select Hex A as their primary hex, the Hunker Down bonus would take effect and possibly keep a smaller organization in the same hex even if based on population, they were barely beat out by someone else.
If "Fluffy Bunny Co" got displaced by "Zombie Kitty Co" of 45 folks, they would move to the next hex they are eligible for based only on population. The following week, they'd start a new Hunker Down clock, equivalent to what bonus they were given on week two of holding Hex A.
If "Fluffy Bunny Co" decides to displace "Docile Dolphin Co" of 10, they have to start "hunker down" over again because they uprooted themselves.
If you don't have a settlement, you can't hunker down.
Not sure how accurate that is, but that's what I thought when I first read the blog.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hunker down.
My understanding is as follows.
If "Fluffy Bunny Co" is holding Hex A with 20 folks and has been holding Hex A for two weeks, when "Loco Emu Co" of 22 folks appear and select Hex A as their primary hex, the Hunker Down bonus would take effect and possibly keep a smaller organization in the same hex even if based on population, they were barely beat out by someone else.
If "Fluffy Bunny Co" got displaced by "Zombie Kitty Co" of 45 folks, they would move to the next hex they are eligible for based only on population. The following week, they'd start a new Hunker Down clock, equivalent to what bonus they were given on week two of holding Hex A.
If "Fluffy Bunny Co" decides to displace "Docile Dolphin Co" of 10, they have to start "hunker down" over again because they uprooted themselves.
If you don't have a settlement, you can't hunker down.
Not sure how accurate that is, but that's what I thought when I first read the blog.
Pretty much the way I read it too.
And if Fluffy Bunny Co got kicked out of their hex by a bigger group, even with hunker down bonus, and didn't have enough people to take someone else's hex, they were out of a settlement hex that week and would have to try and recruit more folks.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We could see more "Kabal" like entries in the next weeks, so those unclaimed settlement hexes could be filling up fast then.
You got Kaballed!
I thought it was a bonus to get kicked, period. But does not really matter either way, just making sure people understand the mechanics correctly. Then everyone is playing on the same playing field.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And how are they going to distinguish themselves if they don't have a contact website? Minor gripe of mine. We can't help them and they can't help us because we can't contact them.
I think maybe an email from GW going out to everyone telling them to pay attention to the GW blogs if they want to participate in the land rush, might be in order to wake up these people and get them to pay attention to what is going on. I assume such an email can go out since we had to provide such with our mailing addresses to get our stuff when it was ready.
If that happened, I think we would see massive shifts in numbers. None of the 30 slots would be safe then. Which would be both exciting and terrifying for us all. All carefully laid plans by various groups going up in smoke as hexes bounce from week to week from one group to another. :-)
I would really like that email sent out this week, if possible, rather than week 10 or 11. ;-)
Agree 100%. As a member of one of the "bottom 8" a method to contact some of the compatible-sounding microguilds would be really helpful.
