Okay... so I've got a question regarding the Deadly Dealer feat from The Harrow Handbook and how it interacts with magical Harrow Decks.
Deadly Dealer
Your skill with handling a deck and your arcane talents allow you to turn mundane cards into weapons.
Prerequisites: Arcane Strike, Sleight of Hand 5 ranks.
Benefit: You can throw a card as though it were a dart, with the same damage, range, and other features. You must use the Arcane Strike feat when throwing a card in this way, or else the card lacks the magical force and precision to deal lethal damage. A card is destroyed when thrown in this way. Harrow cards are treated as masterwork weapons when thrown using this feat, but are still destroyed after they are thrown. A harrow deck can no longer be used as a fortune-telling device after even a single card is thrown.
A spellcaster with this feat can enhance a deck of cards as though it were a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition. This enhancement functions only when used in tandem with this feat, and has no affect on any other way the cards might be used. Only a character who possesses this feat can use an enhanced deck of cards; she must still use the Arcane Strike feat to activate the cards’ enhancement.
Okay, so the highlighted section of this feat states that any card used in conjunction with this feat is destroyed after its use. So, does that include magical Harrow decks such as the one listed below? If so, why would someone ever use a magical harrow deck with that feat? Which sucks, because the double damage from Arcane Strike is pretty awesome.
Deck of Slivering Fate Price
13,000 gp
Slot None CL 7th Weight —
Aura moderate evocation
The 54 cards in this +1 limning harrow deck have more violent imagery than a standard harrow deck, and each card has a thin metallic frill around its edges. When the wielder uses a card from this deck with the Deadly Dealer feat (see page 15), the metallic frills become taut and sharp. When they are used in this way, the cards deal slashing damage instead of piercing, and the bonus damage from the Arcane Strike feat is doubled.
Construction Requirements Cost 6,500 GP
Craft Magical Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, Deadly Dealer, magic missile
Furthermore... the Cartomancer (Witch Archetype) has an ability that specifically references the usage of harrow cards and them not being destroyed.
Deliver Touch Spells (Su): At 3rd level, when the cartomancer uses the Deadly Dealer feat with a card from her spell deck, the card is not destroyed and gains the returning weapon special ability. In addition, the cartomancer can deliver a touch spell with a thrown card. This uses the Deadly Dealer feat (see below), except the attack is resolved as a ranged touch attack and the card deals no damage of its own. This ability can be used with any card (not just one from the cartomancer’s spell deck).
So... What are your thoughts, because I'm lost! lol
Pricing wise, think of the deck as as the same as 'buying magic ammunition.' Normally, magic ammo is in a lot of 50 as is...
The witch archtype would allow the use of Deadly Dealer without destroying the cards, even the magic deck. Without that archtype (or the magus one i believe) they would be expendable.
Yes, the magic cards are destroyed when used. No, it isn't a good deal. 54 +1 limning shuriken cost a little over 8,600 gp. The only advantages to these is that they can be used as a harrow deck (well, until you destroy a card) and that you only need simple weapon proficiency instead of exotic.
Thanks for the quick replies guys! I was worried that was the case... looks like only time Deadly Dealer becomes worthwhile is with the archetypes.
And I suppose the extra pricing is due to the bonus to Arcane Strike?
Yes, the magic cards are destroyed when used. No, it isn't a good deal. 54 +1 limning shuriken cost a little over 8,600 gp. The only advantages to these is that they can be used as a harrow deck (well, until you destroy a card) and that you only need simple weapon proficiency instead of exotic.
Also double arcane strike damage bonus. Just sayin.
Well, Cartomancer is a specific exception to the feat allowing the cards not to be destroyed. That's how rules work, the more specific trumps the general.
Nothing in the magic deck states the cards are not destroyed, so unfortunately, they are destroyed when thrown.
Unless the magic cards are thrown by a Cartomancer.
Yes, the magic cards are destroyed when used. No, it isn't a good deal. 54 +1 limning shuriken cost a little over 8,600 gp. The only advantages to these is that they can be used as a harrow deck (well, until you destroy a card) and that you only need simple weapon proficiency instead of exotic.Also double arcane strike damage bonus. Just sayin.
Missed that part. That explains the rest of the change, then.
If you use the Deck of Slivering Fate with the Deadly Dealer feat... the Deck provides double damage from Arcane Strike, which is a prerequisite for Deadly Dealer.
anyone have a link for the cartomancer archtype? im intrigued at the prospect of playing my fav x-men.
It's from the Harrow Handbook, but I can't much more than this link
anyone have a link for the cartomancer archtype? im intrigued at the prospect of playing my fav x-men.
Yep, I found it today at d20pfsrd and was like WHOA and added the new Harrow Handbook to my wishlist to buy next month. IN the mean time, here is the d20pfsrd link
Then I also had a question myself, so Deadly Dealer allows you to enchant a harrow deck as if it were ammunition. Would that also include the Cartomancer's deck? I don't see where it would not be allowed, but it doesn't specficially say that the Cartomancer's deck can be enchanted so I can't be sure.
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Note that Deadly Dealer doesn't have to be used with Harrow cards... and a normal deck of cards (as per Ultimate Equipment) can be had for as little as 1sp. That's pretty cheap ammunition. I'd assume that you can also enchant 'em with spells (such as Greater Magic Weapon) and stuff (such as the cold steel power from the Sorcerer's Boreal bloodline) as if they were projectile ammunition (50 per casting) too.
Okay, now what about if you ENCHANT the deck with the returning property (or use the Magus Card Caster's ability to add returning to a ranged weapon)? Does that make it then return, or does the feats wording trump the returning enchantment?
A spellcaster with this feat can enhance a deck of cards as though it were a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition. This enhancement functions only when used in tandem with this feat, and has no affect on any other way the cards might be used. Only a character who possesses this feat can use an enhanced deck of cards; she must still use the Arcane Strike feat to activate the cards’ enhancement.
I've a question regarding this portion of the feat. Does the character with deadly dealer (as a spellcaster) need craft magical arms and armor to enchant the deck as per the above, or does the deadly dealer feat itself give this ability?