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Bard.
Bard can do quite well in combat, and make great skill monkeys.
Archaeologist does everything a Rogue does, and better.
It's a great archetype for what you are looking for.
I read what you propose and there is one class that you overlook I think: the Ninja. If you play in an oriental theme game (or at least, in quest were the orient is not that far), the ninja could do pretty much all you want, while beiing basicaly a rogue.
Bard could be usefull and do all the thing also, but I found it to become quite the ''sidekick'' in combat, were the ninja/rogue could shine sometime.
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I have always seen new players struggle with Rogue/Ninjas.
The classes seem to want to fill certain roles, but are not very good at any of them.
Also, running a viable Rogue/Ninja requires a bit of system mastery, that new players don't have the luxury of calling upon.
Truly, too many sad new players I have witnessed struggling with Rogue/Ninjas to ever want to suggest them again.
Having that experience soured for them is too much for me to push it upon them.
Well then, Bard it is! For one thing, it's easier to play right than a Rogue (you don't have to risk your life to do something in combat). You get Versatile Performance, wich make you the most competent character by level 10, some spell (healing and haste...)....If you don't care to boost your ally, the base bard is quite good, no real need to look at the archetype I think.
For the fighting style, bow is the simple I think, and the reach is also good (polearm). The human is probably the better choice if you start level 1: either style demand two feat to be functionnal (point blanc+ precise or martial weapon proficiency and combat reflexe).
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The Inquisitor has a wide variety of social and stealth skills, and can easily hold his own in combat.
Rangers don't have a lot of social skills, but with a few traits to gain class skills or the Cosmopolitan feat that's easy to fix. They do gain a good amount of skill points, a lot of good class skills, and they're perfectly capable in combat.
Bards are kinda the arcane counterpart to inquisitors. Good social skills, and Versatile Performance means your skill points are worth a bit more, relatively. You've got some decent spells, and you can fight well enough, especially if you pick up Arcane Strike for some additional damage. I think a bard's damage-enhancing class abilities are easier to apply consistently than Sneak Attack. You can also boost your to-hit more easily than a rogue. Half-Orc bards are particularly nice; bards are good at Stealth, HOs have Darkvision and you get the excellent Falchion as a racial weapon. If you want to fight, the Archaeologist and Arcane Duelist archetypes deserve a good look.
And don't forget: it's easy to multiclass with a bard. You want to play an elf archer bard? Just dip one level in fighter or even Zen Archer and you are good. You want to try a gunner bard? Why not a dip in gunslinger or even spellslinger! Bard is not that dependant of its spell, so you don't really need to be 100% of this class, in opposition to the wizard and the sorcerer. I did a Fighter 1/ Bard X with spiked chain who was a huge assets in a party one time.
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Everyone will also get to like having the Bard in a fight.
Trust me, after a while, the Bard will miss a combat, and someone will go "dang, I wish the Bard was here, I would have hit with that last attack".
Basically, you make the team look good. In combat, and in social situations, you are everyone's favorite buddy.
Most of the suggestions so far are good and valid ones, the Bard is a strong class and i really enjoy mine. there are lots of ways for a bard to shine, but you have to be weary for later combats: oftentimes around level 8-12 i feel like my bard is always casting, and i never get to use my nice pretty archery feats, or anything else really, because they make such good casters in the mid-upper levels, and because they're (one of, if not) the best support/buffers in the game.
i recommend if you plan on taking any combat feats make sure they are ones that fit the bard thematically, such as Dazzling Display or Improved Trip, both of which work well with a Whip weilder, (stand behind the fighter, trip his target with the reach on your whip, watch him go to town) maybe even carry around a half a dozen Nets, (you arent proficient, but with an average dex combined with the fact that you're hitting enemies Touch AC... you can pretty much shut down any caster from 15-20 feet away, and you can at least eat a round of enemy fighter's actions) and always remember to make knowledge checks and you should be more than fine in combat.
alignment is, as always, a very... tough question. generally in the pathfinder world alignment tends to be rather black and white, as opposed to the real would and its "grey areas" but killing someone (particularly someone who just helped you) is an evil act, which is why you are required to be evil to play the only class that centers specifically around murdering people (assassin) all classes are equipped to kill people, but its generally frowned upon (just like the real world) my humble advice would be to play a morally grey person who, while not actually delivering the killing blow, wouldnt be against letting someone else, or leaving a person for dead. seeing as you intend to be a theif then Chaotic (the anti-law) would be best, and since you cant be evil i recommend Nuetral, but again, killing people is very solidly evil, unless it is in self defence. a line all-too-often blurred by Pathfinder.
I'm okay being a sidekick in battle as long as I'm useful. If that means jumping around and tripping people for the fighters and barbarians, cool. I'd like to get done good hits in, but as long as I'm useful I'm combat and shine socially, that works for me. I plan on a lot of RPing.
Tripping people is pretty useful in combat and would make your character more than a sidekick. However, trippins is not that good for medium BAB classes (inquisitors and bards) unless you really focus on it. I would recommend focusing in other stuffs, like buffing using magic.
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Here is a Skill Monkey Ninja and a Skill Monkey Bard for you to look at. My personal preference is for the ninja, but I favor rogue/ninjas more than most people on the forums.
I'm curious about the work arounds there are in the game.
There are as much work aroudsn in this game as your imagination adn the imagination of your GM allow.
one condition... if there are any girls you have to do them!~
If I was running a no-evil game, I would be upset if a PC killed an innocent person for helping them.
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Well bard it is. I'll look into inquisitor too though. I really like the idea of just being helpful in battle and excelling socially. I plan on using knowledge checks as conversation pieces, like talking to a Noble about their gardens or mounted animals, to get my foot in the door. But in the wild I may RP not even thinking about things like that initially. I want my character to be a city person who then grows and learns how to fight and use his skills to survive in the wild. I'm still gonna be a thief though. If it isn't nailed down I'll probably try to steal it or pickpocket what I want.
Initially I was thinking Taldor because of the way they operate (setting their opponents against each other, still looking nice and being social) but I feel like Sczarni might be more my style. One main reason I thought of Taldor is that I can act as an agent from another city to spread dissent among the nations holding Taldor back/down.
All that sounds good. Potentially very fun, actually. And something a Bard can very easily do if built properly.
In terms of fighting style, are you thinking ranged or melee? Both are valid, though ranged is a little better mechanically, and melee seems to suit your theme a bit better.
Also, for those who DM, how important is alignment? We can't be evil, but if we're causing some sort of trouble during our sessions, and an civilian helped us with information, would it be a problem to kill him? I would say no, not to leave loose ends. He could cause issues for us later. But I know that sort of reasoning isn't always allowed/acceptable/liked. Opinions on that? I want my character to be ruthless and dead inside, but appear happy and flirty and generally a great guy. But I also want to make sure I don't cross into being evil or borderline or anything like that. I've been told we will be warned after the first mistake, but that there would be consequences.
This attitude is the definition of Evil and won't fly in PFS, or most home games either. Being ruthless or inclined to steal things is fine...but 'dead inside'? That's Evil, that is.
Now, being somewhat unconcerned with the well-being of people you don't know, and primarily self-interested is fine, and pretty standard Neutral behavior...but killing people because it's convenient? Not so much.
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I'm going to go melee. Likely with a rapier because feels like it would go well with faking being a Noble.
Sounds reasonable.
And maybe dead inside isn't quite right. More like no feelings for other people. A sociopath maybe. Can't feel emotions but can mimic them to get what he wants. No concern for anyone else really.
Uh...that's basically the definition of Neutral Evil. At least it is without some code or other reason to restrain your baser impulses.
As for killing innocents, I'm not looking to go out of my way to do it, but just looking to try to prevent future problems. I'm thinking that, if dresses as a Noble, I can likely just bluff and tell a guard he stole from me or something. Likely to believe a Noble and lock him up or beat him, and I wouldn't have to say it in front if the guy. He'd just be arrested or beaten and not know why. Maybe that'll make him resent the city and be less forthcoming with them for helping us if things go sour.
Still pretty much an Evil act there, though less of one.
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Indeed.
The "oh, that Paladin might not let me keep some of the gold I steal later, so I will murder him in his sleep" character, is not very group cohesive.
You could be a character looking for something to care about.
Maybe, you do feel a little dead inside, but that's why you travel, and adventure. Hoping to find something that can truly make you feel again, and know what it is to truly live.
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Well it looks like I need to rethink my characters attitude. Perhaps I will just be indifferent to everyone. Slavery? Yeah I don't like it, but I'm not gonna do anything about it because they're not me. Poor people? Yeah they're also not me, so I will not be parting with my money for them. Is that more neutral?
Significantly so. It's not that you have to be a nice person, it's just that there are certain depths you can't sink to.
Another possibility is being pretty pragmatic and sociopathic, but having certain principles you won't violate (ie: not killing innocents, for example). Having a code that restricts you from Evil behavior can make a sociopath LN pretty readily.
Dexter's (from the show of the same name) personal code is still LE (given the serial killing and all) but a similar code that only allowed killing in self-defense or combat might easily result in a LN character, or even another variety of Neutral, depending.
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Well that I can do, similar to your last sentence. I'm sure there are other ways to solve innocents. Can non killing actions actions make you evil as well?
Certainly. Torture leaps to mind.
Say an innocent spots me and I knock them out (or bribe/intimidate them), will that make me evil as well?
Knocking people out, intimidating or bribing them, however...not very Evil. All those should be fine.
Edit: also we are allowed to be chaotic as well if that makes a difference. Just not eveil. Anything but evil.
Oh, I get that, specific codes of behavior just tend towards Lawful Alignments.
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Unless you get into very complex and exotic builds that dip into a lot of different classes, the undisputed best skill monkey that is still perfectly viable in battle is the human archeologist bard. Archeologist at very low levels is almost as good as top tier min maxed combatants, and stays relevant for a long time. Bardic knowledge, base skill points, and increased numbers to perception and disable device all make a great package. The human is best because of focused study combined with skilled or silver tongue. Silver to the makes you the best mouth possible in the game but you lose out on some skills.
Uh...unless you need to disarm magical traps, standard Bard is a better skill-monkey than Archaeologist in just about every way. Versatile Performance is really awesome.
Archaeologist does some limited stuff better than a core Bard, but as a straight-up skill monkey? Core Bard is better.
If you are looking for take 10 some skills that you used often by level 10, take rogue. If you want to take 10 in every skills by level 20, take bard. If you want to play smart and deal decent damage even if you don't have much strength, play Rogue. If you want to support your team in combat with some spell casting to aid your survive, play bard. That's what I think. People keep saying bard is better skill monkey, but bard can't take 10 at level 10, by the time they can, skills ain't as useful as it was at level 10 anymore.
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Oh?
Have you seen the Negotiator?
At 5th level, the Negotiator can take 10 on any Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (local), or Sense Motive check if he has ranks in that skill.
Also, he gets Rogue Talents.
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If you are looking for take 10 some skills that you used often by level 10, take rogue. If you want to take 10 in every skills by level 20, take bard.
This is true...but this is for PFS, both are barely relevant for most of the character's career.
If you want to play smart and deal decent damage even if you don't have much strength, play Rogue. If you want to support your team in combat with some spell casting to aid your survive, play bard.
Uh...default Bard damage, with performance and a spell or two, is better than a Rogue's.
That's what I think. People keep saying bard is better skill monkey, but bard can't take 10 at level 10, by the time they can, skills ain't as useful as it was at level 10 anymore.
Well, Archaeologists can get the same ability Rogues get at 12th level...and taking 10 is really pretty overrated a lot of the time. It's certainly very nice, but Bards can do it on Knowledge skills as of 5th level, and then there are the spells that add to skills...a +20 bonus is infinitely better than being able to take 10, and something Bards can get readily on Stealth, Bluff, and Perception of the top of my head, and quite a few more with effort.
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I see the argument because of all the X to Y and take 10s and a few 20s. However, by the number of skill ranks (or similar gains) and being a meaning combatant instead of supporter I chose archeologist as king of this role.
Standard Bards are just as good as Archaeologists in combat. Inspire Courage is right on par with Luck as a combat buff. Especially at high levels. And they have better total ranks, too. Archaeologists, in 20 levels, get +20 total that normal Bards don't. If planned properly, normal Bards can manage +80 that Archaeologists don't with the use of Versatile Performance (they seldom get quite that much, but I'd expect at least +40).
Some players or GMs value perception so high that the +10 to perception may be more meaningful than a core bards good features, but that is splitting hairs.
Yeah...that's not 'skill monkey' that's perception specialist, and they are probably better at that...though maybe not the best in the game. I'd have to experiment a bit with Inquisitor builds to check...
How is an Archeologist a more meaningful combatant than the core Bard? Both get a scaling buff to hit and damage, though Archeologist gets a bonus to saves and core Bard gets to share the love; they really aren't that different. They even scale the same, barring taking Fate's Favored, but I wouldn't really call an extra +1 hit/damage/saves as being a massive game changer in the Archeologist's favor.