Help me optimize to save my party!!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Alright, first time posting here (hope this is the right section!), but of all the places I lurk you guys seem to have the most common sense/are the funniest. SO! That being said, my gm is running a campaign with hard restrictions. I'll break it down for you:

Theme: Sword Art Online
Restrictions: Only classes allowed to be played: Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue.
Stats: 20 Point by
Number of lives: 1. There is NO resurrection. No passing go and collecting $200. Hardcore mode.
[b]Archtypes allowed:
Fighter - TWF, 2HF, possibly 1 or 2 more pending. Rogue - no judgement passed yet, free game. Barbarian - go nuts. Nothing banned yet.

There's no magic. No wizards ( T-T ), no monks, no druids, or anything else cool yet. Other melee classes can be gained passed level 5 (Samurai, Ninja).

So you understand my predicament, my GM has taken me aside and told me that the group is going to need help surviving. He's giving us all the blanket restrictions, but has asked me to power game the hell out of it to keep my friends alive and kick serious a**. Never heard a GM tell me that before.

Regardless, that's my predicament. I'm only moderately savvy when it comes to rules and optimizing characters, as I usually make people more for RP than murderface. So I beseech thee, great forums, help me make an insane force to be reckoned with!!


Simple, your DM needs to be running Iron Heroes, not PF.


DrDeth wrote:
Simple, your DM needs to be running Iron Heroes, not PF.

I tried to tell him that. But he loves PF. Can't blame him, I do too.


Kashkin wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
Simple, your DM needs to be running Iron Heroes, not PF.
I tried to tell him that. But he loves PF. Can't blame him, I do too.

But he's not running PF. Not even close.

Magic is a integral part of the game.


DrDeth wrote:
Kashkin wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
Simple, your DM needs to be running Iron Heroes, not PF.
I tried to tell him that. But he loves PF. Can't blame him, I do too.

But he's not running PF. Not even close.

Magic is a integral part of the game.

I know! Wizard and Druid are my favorite classes. All normal magical items/enhancements are still there as per the norm, just no magic.


Will you be facing magic users?


Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Will you be facing magic users?

No. He will, however, be pulling monsters from the SRD and books he has. So we can expect SU's to be fairly frequent to uncommon I believe. That being said, there won't be any actual spellcasters.


Superstitious barbarian could be good if saves will ever be required. The problem is, at least for me, I find it hard to have fun playing a barbarian. I don't really love any of the classes you have available. If ninja is available after level 5 that becomes an interesting option, maybe build a rogue towards a ninja outcome. But if you just want to do a ton of damage, barb might be the way to go. Archer fighter too.


Fighter Archers are amazingly powerful in a zero magic setting.


Fighter Archer I've considered. Lots of feats make archery awesome in PF. As for Rogue into Ninja, I might be down for that as well.

I can have fun RPing anything, and am a pretty flexible player in general.

This being said, it comes down to survivability. Which one, out of the three, will live the longest/be able to keep everyone alive/deal serious damage? I know it's asking a lot, but there's gotta be a way, right?


The GM should adjust his game to the capabilities of the PC, not the other way around.


Without magic will saves become less of an issue. So the decent fortitude save is good and archers have great AC so you will be fairly survivable.


It depends what the others choose. If you don't have anyone ranged fighter archer is a strong choice. You'll need some way of taking out flying creatures.

I think if you need someone for melee a barbarian is always great for damage. But a fighter archer can stay out of trouble.

The rogue/ninja might end up being the most useful of all, but you won't be the best contributor in combat early on. You'll also be the most vulnerable; but eventually your sneakiness can help combat that.

See what everyone else is doing, and pick the unfilled role and optimize accordingly.


How does your DM feel about monks? Are you actually playing a game of SAO using PF rules? If so, you should have him make you play the beta. ;)

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

You really want to keep your AC up. Take a shield, and a fighter's armor training will be invaluable. Without magic for rapid healing, you need to avoid being hit in the first place. Just having a lot of HP to survive the fight (barbarian style) means spending a lot of time between fights sleeping it off at the inn.


I wouldn't play in such a game, but if I had to, I'd go with the good ol' Superstitious, Pouncing Spell-Sundering Barbarian.

Or use this Rogue fix ;). But I don't think your GM will allow homebrew stuff.


Thanks Pitt and Chime! Definitely good ideas. I know archery got awesome in PF, and full BAB would rule the day there. Would I bother with fullplate if I go Archer Fighter? And Ninja would be good, but the game is DEFINITELY hardmode. I might not make it to end game, let alone help keep other players alive.

@Ross That sounds like another solid idea. Is there a build out there specifically that could optimize sword and board? I see that and hear Falcion/Scimitar. Or... what is the most damaging/useful melee weapon? And what armor should I wear?

@Lemmy Supersticious, Pouncing Spell-sundering barb? O_o How does one do that? And the Rogue fix... that's epic. Just finished reading it. I'll run that by him tomorrow.

And Siege, I am playing in the Beta as we speak. ;)


Beater!


Terrain is going to matter a lot on this game, so you'll need a stealthy rogue. Also buy a lot more military consumables. Will wands of cure light wounds be allowed? If so, the rogue should max out UMD.


Wands are there, although they have a different name. Terrain is gonna be crazy. UMD will be maxed, sir! /salutes

And I'm definitely guilty of being one, Siege.


If monks are allowed, check out some of the optimization guides out there. They get a lot of cool ki stuff that emulates magic which would help in SAO. Would your DM allow a spell-less ranger? Taking boon companion with your animal companion of choice would be handy. He may be open to it considering they had a monster-tamer kind of girl in the show?


Kashkin wrote:
@Lemmy Supersticious, Pouncing Spell-sundering barb? O_o How does one do that?

Rather easily.

Be a Barbarian (preferably using the Invulnerable Rager archetype) and grab the following Rage Powers:
- Beast Totem, Lesser
- Beast Totem (gives you scaling AC!)
- Beast Totem, Greater (Gives you Pounce!)
- Superstition (being human allows you to use your favored class bonus to boost Superstition's numbers to the stratosphere).
- Spell Sunder (Because breaking magic is awesome!)

I also recommend Come and Get Me, Ghost Rager, Strength Surge (so you never again fail a CMB check) and, if possible, Eater of Magic.

Kashkin wrote:
And the Rogue fix... that's epic. Just finished reading it. I'll run that by him tomorrow.

Glad you like. :)

If he allows it, tell me how it goes. I always appreciate feedback. I'm using this homebrew to play a duelist Rogue in RotRL, so far, so good.;)

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Kashkin wrote:
@Ross That sounds like another solid idea. Is there a build out there specifically that could optimize sword and board? I see that and hear Falcion/Scimitar. Or... what is the most damaging/useful melee weapon? And what armor should I wear?

If wands are available, then this isn't as critical as I thought.


If I am guessing correctly, if the DM is basing this game off the anime, wands and potions are swapped out for crystals that are usually single use before they are gone. He probably isn't allowing all normal spells, just teleportation to fixed spots and some healing, and maybe a few other effects like audio journals and such.


The shield bash route can be fun. Essentially TWF with sword and board while retaining shield bonus to AC and free bull rush when you hit with your shield.


For the Spell Sunder + Strength Surge Barbarian, May I reccomend Cord of Stubborn Resolve for early rage cycling goodness!


I wonder what kind of character the OP ended up playing.


I've been playing with some people newer to the game, and as the more experienced player took a defender role. I went with a Phalanx Fighter, which is an archetype but is very non-magicy so if you could talk him into it, it could work. By level three, you have a long-spear you're wielding one handed, allowing for you to use reach for battlefield control, and you have the shield for defense, as well as to shield bash anything that get's too close. We had a rogue and a sorcerer making up the rest of the party.

Based on positioning, I could help set the rogue up for sneak attack, while the sorcerer could stay behind me safe and sound. Even if you don't have a sorcerer, an archer will appreciate having you there as a speed bump.

Eventually, you can use a tower shield, or just carry one around and drop it down to give your squishy friends cover. Haven't played it over level 8 though so no idea how well it matures. It dominates pretty easily from levels 1-5 though.

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