Butterfly Sting is Desna only?
Where in butterfly sting does it say that? I thought only Spiked Destoyer was written as belonging to worshippers of a deity.
Butterfly Sting is Desna only?In Inner Sea Gods, yes, and it will be removed from the original source and only legal from Inner Sea gods.
Ouch... So now everyone just suddenly forgets how to use it? Or... Huh. That's weird. Doesn't make much sense either unless some magical super god is denying everyone from using Butterfly Sting.
What about Butterfly Sting is magical and makes it single deity only anyway? Any chance someone could share some copy-pasta?
|
Butterfly Sting is Desna only?In Inner Sea Gods, yes, and it will be removed from the original source and only legal from Inner Sea gods.Ouch... So now everyone just suddenly forgets how to use it? Or... Huh. That's weird. Doesn't make much sense either unless some magical super god is denying everyone from using Butterfly Sting.
What about Butterfly Sting is magical and makes it single deity only anyway? Any chance someone could share some copy-pasta?
Don't have the source text for you unfortunately (sorry), but given the rules for when a feat or class ability is changed, you should be able to switch to the "updated" butterfly sting feat without meeting the prerequisites. So this should not have an impact on your existing characters. Alternatively, you can retrain out of it for free.
Previously, the Butterfly Sting feat was associated with Desna, but it wasn't an explicit requirement that your character worship Desna. They just changed it into a hard requirement to match the intention.
If nobody gives you a better answer later, I'll come back with some quotes :)
|
New FAQ is up.
Edit:
As a character, you may choose to worship a single deity or pantheon (the “deity”). If you worship a pantheon, you do not count as worshiping every god in that pantheon; you must choose one deity from that pantheon for the purpose of gaining mechanical benefits.
Your character’s alignment must be within one step of that of the deity he or she worships. Any character with levels in a class that grants spells or other features from a specific deity must worship that deity.
A character may only worship one deity at a time; the character may change which deity she worships between sessions at no cost. If this change requires the character to change alignment, the character is required to pay for an atonement. Any element incompatible with the new deity no longer functions. These elements may be retrained at normal cost using the rules from Ultimate Campaign.
For example, a cleric of Desna with the Travel and Luck domains and the Butterfly Sting feat switches her worship to Shelyn. The cleric may still use the Luck domain because Shelyn grants that domain, but not the Travel domain or the Butterfly Sting feat, because worship of Shelyn does not grant access to those features.
You should also just be able to change deities if your not a divine source caster, right?
Which may or may not compromise your character's roleplay or backstory.
And traits possibly. The butterfly stinging chaldira worshipers may have a choice to make.You should also just be able to change deities if your not a divine source caster, right?Which may or may not compromise your character's roleplay or backstory.
Funny enough its a choice between yourself and others. Butterfly Sting is about helping the guy to the left of you. Probably a less egregious example to use, like the guy who wanted to worship Calistria or Irori because backstory. I hope whoever tells them they have to get rid of butterfly sting or convert isn't standing next to a tetsubo fighter...
|
Funny enough its a choice between yourself and others. Butterfly Sting is about helping the guy to the left of you. Probably a less egregious example to use, like the guy who wanted to worship Calistria or Irori because backstory. I hope whoever tells them they have to get rid of butterfly sting or convert isn't standing next to a tetsubo fighter...And traits possibly. The butterfly stinging chaldira worshipers may have a choice to make.You should also just be able to change deities if your not a divine source caster, right?Which may or may not compromise your character's roleplay or backstory.
They could always just leave it as a dead feat if they wanted to. ;)
|
You should also just be able to change deities if your not a divine source caster, right?Which may or may not compromise your character's roleplay or backstory.And traits possibly. The butterfly stinging chaldira worshipers may have a choice to make.
The trait is already reatta'd. Can only be rerolled before the result is shown, and then take the second roll even if it worse. Before it could be use after the results was shown.
They could always just leave it as a dead feat if they wanted to. ;)
I cast raise feat!
Comes back at a -2. Do not use with weapon focus. You know what, probably easier to cast reincarnate.
What about Butterfly Sting is magical and makes it single deity only anyway? Any chance someone could share some copy-pasta?Butterfly Sting is Desna only?In Inner Sea Gods, yes, and it will be removed from the original source and only legal from Inner Sea gods.
Butterflies don't normally sting, so it's obviously not something that meets the eye.
The symbol of Desna is a butterfly.The feat was presented in the section about Desna.
It's all about manipulating luck (in a way different from the normal reroll d20).
I'm surprised people thought that it wasn't heavily tied in with Desna.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
They could always just leave it as a dead feat if they wanted to. ;)I cast raise feat!
Comes back at a -2. Do not use with weapon focus. You know what, probably easier to cast reincarnate.
GM: It comes back as an ogre feat from the ARG. So...you still cant use it.
Player: Well ^%#$.
I'm surprised people thought that it wasn't heavily tied in with Desna.
To be fair its not a supernatural ability. I always assumed it was some maneuver of some sort. Its more understandable when its a supernatural ability because then it actually comes off as something no one else can do. Sort of like how stabbing shot requires pointy ears doesn't make much sense. Regardless of ties to Desna, just weird that only her worshippers get to use it, and not just her worshippers, but ones who are currently worshipping and not that grizzled old veteran who switched to calistria after his wife died. Any other than this and spiked destroyer of note btw?
I'm surprised people thought everyone would think it was tied to Desna!
|
|
The feat section of Faiths of Purity (where Butterfly's Sting was originally from) said that the feats were only most commonly seen amongst the followers of their associated faiths, much like how some spells are associated with specific faiths, but are open to everyone.
There was no reason up until now to think that those feats would suddenly become illegal for non-worshipers.
|
Butterfly Sting is Desna only?In Inner Sea Gods, yes, and it will be removed from the original source and only legal from Inner Sea gods.Ouch... So now everyone just suddenly forgets how to use it? Or... Huh. That's weird. Doesn't make much sense either unless some magical super god is denying everyone from using Butterfly Sting.
What about Butterfly Sting is magical and makes it single deity only anyway? Any chance someone could share some copy-pasta?
Don't have the source text for you unfortunately (sorry), but given the rules for when a feat or class ability is changed, you should be able to switch to the "updated" butterfly sting feat without meeting the prerequisites. So this should not have an impact on your existing characters. Alternatively, you can retrain out of it for free.
Previously, the Butterfly Sting feat was associated with Desna, but it wasn't an explicit requirement that your character worship Desna. They just changed it into a hard requirement to match the intention.
If nobody gives you a better answer later, I'll come back with some quotes :)
I would love to see these quotes as I do not picture my Wayang Lawful Neutral Chelaxian ninja as being that much of a Desna worshipper. I took this feat as a 'party pleaser,' i.e. a power that made other people at the table happy when I got it off (and it does that quite well). Others at our gameday will likely be disappointed if my ninja had to retrain out of that.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If a feat or trait changes or is removed from the Additional Resources list: You have two options. First, you may either switch the old feat for an updated feat of the same name in another legal source (if available), ignoring any prerequisites of the new feat you do not meet. Alternatively, you may replace the feat entirely with another feat for which you meet all the prerequisites.
Based on the wording here, if you have a character that took the Butterfly Sting feat prior to the Inner Sea Gods version, you can simply convert to the new version even if your character doesn't worship Desna. You also have the option of taking a new feat.
Going forward though, your character will need to worship Desna.
However, I wonder if there will be some difficulty in audits. It would be prudent to have a local GM or VO sign a chronicle sheet saying that you have taken Butterfly String prior to the update.
|
|
However, I wonder if there will be some difficulty in audits. It would be prudent to have a local GM or VO sign a chronicle sheet saying that you have taken Butterfly String prior to the update.
There shouldn't be any problem, because the change has to be noted on a chronicle sheet.
When rebuilding your character in any way, you must describe all changes on your next Chronicle sheet in the Notes section, and your GM must initial that section.
|
|
Going forward though, your character will need to worship Desna.
Do the house rules about one-alignment step for classes who don't get their power from a god apply in this case?
I assume that they do since it is just another example of a deity specific restriction. I still find it amusing that you apparently get bounced out of church for being the wrong alignment in PFS.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Do the house rules about one-alignment step for classes who don't get their power from a god apply in this case?
Eyup. Your character’s alignment must be within one step of that of the deity he or she worships.
I still find it amusing that you apparently get bounced out of church for being the wrong alignment in PFS.
Heh.
Its not (or may not be that...) you get bounced out of the church, its that without any real belief in your deity and who they are you can't unlock the mechanical benefits-you can go to church and say the words or whatever but without true genuine FEELING you can't access the semi mystical, wondrous nature of the benefits.
With buttefly sting for example if you can't embrace the sheer joy of dancing and living even in the middle of combat, you can't feel the ebb and flow of combat well enough to know when your strike will open an opportunity for someone else. If you can't feel generosity in mundane things like charity and compassion its much harder to feel them with something as ephemeral as an opportunity.
Its not (or may not be that...) you get bounced out of the church, its that without any real belief in your deity and who they are you can't unlock the mechanical benefits-you can go to church and say the words or whatever but without true genuine FEELING you can't access the semi mystical, wondrous nature of the benefits.
With buttefly sting for example if you can't embrace the sheer joy of dancing and living even in the middle of combat, you can't feel the ebb and flow of combat well enough to know when your strike will open an opportunity for someone else. If you can't feel generosity in mundane things like charity and compassion its much harder to feel them with something as ephemeral as an opportunity.
I'm thinking your making this stuff up as you go along and this wasn't written anywhere before. Besides, you can feel the 'joy of dancing' and 'living in combat' regardless of worship or alignment, so its not really a perfect explanation.
Do the house rules about one-alignment step for classes who don't get their power from a god apply in this case?Eyup. Your character’s alignment must be within one step of that of the deity he or she worships.
Can't I just be a really bad worshipper? Not like I'm asking their god to give me any divine gifts or anything. I think I'd make a really good bad worshipper! How hard can it be?
|
The only good thing that came about this FAQ is that the one guy who keeps thinking Paladin of Gorum=No Restrictions will stop playing Paladins of Gorum[probably].A paladin of Gorum has been and always will be illegal. A Paladin may only worship a Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral or Neutral Good deity.
Yeah, but its been rather difficult to convince him of that, since the paladin rules didn't say that [but now it says definitively due to FAQ].
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm thinking your making this stuff up as you go along
Well this IS a fantasy game...
and this wasn't written anywhere before.
They wrote it there now...
Besides, you can feel the 'joy of dancing' and 'living in combat' regardless of worship or alignment, so its not really a perfect explanation.
Hey, you get what you pay for.
Can't I just be a really bad worshipper?
No, by definition. Thats not worship, its lip service. If you actually believed in your god you would change your behavior, not merely what you wear around your neck or what church you show up at on sundays.