A Commoner who rolls all 20's is going to be better than a Fighter who can't roll above a two. Doesn't mean the Commoner has super powersNot true.
It depends on the enemy.
20's are automatic hits, and most fighters are not hitting on a 2 unless the enemy is more the 5 CR's below the party's level which is not common. In any even a critting commmon can still have the same strength as the fighter so his crits should outdo a fighter's normal hits.
Breaking News: If someone else in the party has s!&~ty luck, a Monk can out perform them.
Next Up: Wizards useless! Anti-magic Fields cover the entire world of my homebrew campaign!
A pattern is forming. You can blame it on luck if you want, but my char is not on any penalties to attack. The ranger is missing a lot I suspect from being on -2 due to rapid shot. He is missing his manyshot a fair bit too.
In other news. We had fought a dragon and then a great deal of modified chimeras (modified chimeras, it's what's for dinner). The ranger went up to some alcoves and navigated some traps, ran into a reverse gravity and stole the loot. As he was coming down, he slipped, and faced a large amount of damage as he plummeted to the hard ground.
My monk was there, he used his last ki point for high jump and intercepted him mid-air, taking him gracefully to the ground (no damage for him) and taking the damage in his stead (no slow fall, not near a wall). Saved him from a lot of pain. The party was thrilled, dm impressed, and that ranger is so in my debt, lol. I'm hoping we work together well (as he is far superior at ranged than my char) and the competition doesn't get too heavy.
I like to try and use the ki abilities to the fullest as well, it isn't just all about damage when the monk is contributing to a party.
That -2 is not any worse than your -2 when using FoB, and the ranger should have a high attack bonus so the -2 should not be much of a factor unless he is fighting a buffed boss.
Why does he need to show what the build or "pics or it didn't happen" or why does this need to mean anything or be discussed in length?
People do realize that DPR, %s etc are theoretical and you don't literally do 40 damage a round right? It's theoretical that over a very long period of rolls it will get closer and closer to that average. Its very easy for the 5-6 turns of combat to not follow the norms and for someone to win from better rolls, especially in a flat (non curve) system.
But on average the monk is not going to do more damage. I have seen DPR focused fighter and barbarian builds. Most monks are not keeping up so I am not giving the monk credit. Lady Luck however is the suspect here.
I took this of another thread where you was talking about tanking a Black dragon with your monk.
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Checking it up, yeah my monk could hit the AC on +13 to hit. Any hit starts bleed too, double hit (unlikely) starts more bleed.
...
I would just like to mention that in my book you need to hit more than once for Boar Style to do bleed. It says:
"Benefit: You can deal bludgeoning damage or slashing damage with your unarmed strikes—changing damage type is a free action. While using this style, once per round when you hit a single foe with two or more unarmed strikes, you can tear flesh. When you do, you deal 2d6 bleed damage with the attack."
In other news. We had fought a dragon and then a great deal of modified chimeras (modified chimeras, it's what's for dinner). The ranger went up to some alcoves and navigated some traps, ran into a reverse gravity and stole the loot. As he was coming down, he slipped, and faced a large amount of damage as he plummeted to the hard ground.My monk was there, he used his last ki point for high jump and intercepted him mid-air, taking him gracefully to the ground (no damage for him) and taking the damage in his stead (no slow fall, not near a wall). Saved him from a lot of pain. The party was thrilled, dm impressed, and that ranger is so in my debt, lol. I'm hoping we work together well (as he is far superior at ranged than my char) and the competition doesn't get too heavy.
I like to try and use the ki abilities to the fullest as well, it isn't just all about damage when the monk is contributing to a party.
How far was he from the ground because you fall a ridiculously fast speed instantly? Like 500 ft per round.
Also inertia doesn't work that way.
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I took this of another thread where you was talking about tanking a Black dragon with your monk.
...
Checking it up, yeah my monk could hit the AC on +13 to hit. Any hit starts bleed too, double hit (unlikely) starts more bleed.
...I would just like to mention that in my book you need to hit more than once for Boar Style to do bleed. It says:
"Benefit: You can deal bludgeoning damage or slashing damage with your unarmed strikes—changing damage type is a free action. While using this style, once per round when you hit a single foe with two or more unarmed strikes, you can tear flesh. When you do, you deal 2d6 bleed damage with the attack."the bleed for one hit comes from the Cheliax: Empire of Devils book feat
"Benefit: When you damage an opponent with an unarmed strike, you deal an extra 1d4 bleed damage.
Special: This ability does not stack with other special abilities, attacks, or items that allow you to deal bleed damage."
Oh ditent see that. Thanks.
Wait.. level 8 ranger having trouble hitting AC 22?
Archer switch hitter so let's assume 14 dex 18 str and no dex belt.
BAB: 8
Dex bonus: 2
+2 weapon: 2
Rapid shot: -2
reckless aim: -3Total attack bonus on Manyshot: 7 (11 against primary favored enemy 9 against secondary)
Damage
D8+12 (16 favored 14 secondary favored) Double on manyshotAssuming AC 22 average the ranger would have a hard time hitting while this monk is running around with what's likely a much higher to hit bonus (no power attack and high str). Note on his 2 best attacks the archer hits on a 15+ without favored enemy.
Until that Ranger gets instant enemy he's gonna have a bad time. Maybe he picked the wrong favored enemies.
TO OP
Suggest the Ranger get weapon focus longbow and a dex belt. Also Bracers of falcons aim http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/brace rs-of-falcon-s-aim
Good advice. We are kind of sealed in an ancient mega-dungeon in northern Isger now (the net connection is still surprisingly good on this level), so no crafting or magic item marts. Damn.
That -2 is not any worse than your -2 when using FoB, and the ranger should have a high attack bonus so the -2 should not be much of a factor unless he is fighting a buffed boss.Breaking News: If someone else in the party has s!&~ty luck, a Monk can out perform them.
Next Up: Wizards useless! Anti-magic Fields cover the entire world of my homebrew campaign!
A pattern is forming. You can blame it on luck if you want, but my char is not on any penalties to attack. The ranger is missing a lot I suspect from being on -2 due to rapid shot. He is missing his manyshot a fair bit too.
In other news. We had fought a dragon and then a great deal of modified chimeras (modified chimeras, it's what's for dinner). The ranger went up to some alcoves and navigated some traps, ran into a reverse gravity and stole the loot. As he was coming down, he slipped, and faced a large amount of damage as he plummeted to the hard ground.
My monk was there, he used his last ki point for high jump and intercepted him mid-air, taking him gracefully to the ground (no damage for him) and taking the damage in his stead (no slow fall, not near a wall). Saved him from a lot of pain. The party was thrilled, dm impressed, and that ranger is so in my debt, lol. I'm hoping we work together well (as he is far superior at ranged than my char) and the competition doesn't get too heavy.
I like to try and use the ki abilities to the fullest as well, it isn't just all about damage when the monk is contributing to a party.
-2 from fob?
You mean -2 from flurry?
Level 8, not on any penalties:
http://paizo.com/prd/classes/monk.html
Are you thinking 3.5?
When doing so, he may make on additional attack, taking a -2 penalty on all of his attack rolls, as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.
It's literally the second sentence.
I took this of another thread where you was talking about tanking a Black dragon with your monk.
...
Checking it up, yeah my monk could hit the AC on +13 to hit. Any hit starts bleed too, double hit (unlikely) starts more bleed.
...I would just like to mention that in my book you need to hit more than once for Boar Style to do bleed. It says:
"Benefit: You can deal bludgeoning damage or slashing damage with your unarmed strikes—changing damage type is a free action. While using this style, once per round when you hit a single foe with two or more unarmed strikes, you can tear flesh. When you do, you deal 2d6 bleed damage with the attack."
You are correct, boar style requires two hits to start the 2d6 bleed, but the bleeding attack feat from the Cheliax book is 1d4 bleed for any unarmed hit. So it is 1d4 for one, but if two in the same round, a bleed upgrade to 2d6. Which I think is really worth the investment.
Not really relevant for the dragon, because when I said my monk tanked I meant the pure definition of tanking in online rpgs/games, he blocked it off and took all it could throw at him for a few rounds, while the rest got to work (ki to add +4 ac, full defence). The ranger didn't do crash hot there, it was our psion that saved the day.
Cheers.
Lev 8 monk
BAB non flurry +6/+1
Flurry attack bonus +6/+6/+1/+1
I'm looking at the section you are Scavion, I am seeing a spelling mistake "When doing so, he may make on additional attack". Even flurry at level 1 the monk isn't on -2 to each, that is +0 bab, -1/-1 flurry.
Will check this up later in a hardcopy of the rules, or core.
Lev 8 monk
BAB non flurry +6/+1
Flurry attack bonus +6/+6/+1/+1I'm looking at the section you are Scavion, I am seeing a spelling mistake "When doing so, he may make on additional attack". Even flurry at level 1 the monk isn't on -2 to each, that is +0 bab, -1/-1 flurry.
Will check this up later in a hardcopy of the rules, or core.
Likely a typo on the chart. It's on the SRD as well surprisingly.
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Guys, Monks get Full BAB (plus TWF penalties) when flurrying, but 3/4 BAB when they are not. It's in the fourth sentence of the Flurry rules.
The point people were trying to make was that, since the Monk and Ranger both have full BAB with a -2 penalty (when flurring and using Rapid Shot, respectively) their to-hit numbers should be very similar. IE: At 8th level, with Raid Shot, the Ranger should have +6/+6/+1, while the flurrying Monk would have +6/+6/+1/+1...so only stats and gear make that different.
And spells... and favored enemy... and feats....
Likely a typo on the chart. It's on the SRD as well surprisingly.Lev 8 monk
BAB non flurry +6/+1
Flurry attack bonus +6/+6/+1/+1I'm looking at the section you are Scavion, I am seeing a spelling mistake "When doing so, he may make on additional attack". Even flurry at level 1 the monk isn't on -2 to each, that is +0 bab, -1/-1 flurry.
Will check this up later in a hardcopy of the rules, or core.
Difference between full BAB and 3/4
And spells... and favored enemy... and feats....True, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise, I was just saying their BAB in isolation is effectively the same.
Oh, yeah that is true :P. FoB is, for all intents and purposes, Dual-Wielding full attack as a full BAB.
I took this of another thread where you was talking about tanking a Black dragon with your monk.
...
Checking it up, yeah my monk could hit the AC on +13 to hit. Any hit starts bleed too, double hit (unlikely) starts more bleed.
...I would just like to mention that in my book you need to hit more than once for Boar Style to do bleed. It says:
"Benefit: You can deal bludgeoning damage or slashing damage with your unarmed strikes—changing damage type is a free action. While using this style, once per round when you hit a single foe with two or more unarmed strikes, you can tear flesh. When you do, you deal 2d6 bleed damage with the attack."You are correct, boar style requires two hits to start the 2d6 bleed, but the bleeding attack feat from the Cheliax book is 1d4 bleed for any unarmed hit. So it is 1d4 for one, but if two in the same round, a bleed upgrade to 2d6. Which I think is really worth the investment.
Not really relevant for the dragon, because when I said my monk tanked I meant the pure definition of tanking in online rpgs/games, he blocked it off and took all it could throw at him for a few rounds, while the rest got to work (ki to add +4 ac, full defence). The ranger didn't do crash hot there, it was our psion that saved the day.
Cheers.
Yes i was told about the bleeding attack feat. With that i would go with snakke style indtraf of Boar style. You dont seem to be Big om intimidate and IMOP that is Half Boar style.
But thanks for explaining the bleeding attack thing:)
Wait.. level 8 ranger having trouble hitting AC 22?
Archer switch hitter so let's assume 14 dex 18 str and no dex belt.
BAB: 8
Dex bonus: 2
+2 weapon: 2
Rapid shot: -2
reckless aim: -3Total attack bonus on Manyshot: 7 (11 against primary favored enemy 9 against secondary)
Damage
D8+12 (16 favored 14 secondary favored) Double on manyshotAssuming AC 22 average the ranger would have a hard time hitting while this monk is running around with what's likely a much higher to hit bonus (no power attack and high str). Note on his 2 best attacks the archer hits on a 15+ without favored enemy.
Until that Ranger gets instant enemy he's gonna have a bad time. Maybe he picked the wrong favored enemies.
TO OP
Suggest the Ranger get weapon focus longbow and a dex belt. Also Bracers of falcons aim http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/brace rs-of-falcon-s-aim
isent reckless aim making hitting more likely?
Seems to me it would give +6 to hit in your examplehttp://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/reckless-aim-combat
Since when does Reckless Aim scale? (it doesn't mention anything about scaling in the feat description) It's a flat -1 AC and a flat +2 Competence bonus, which wouldn't even stack with the Bracers of Falcons Aim. Unless there's a FAQ I'm unaware of, you're using it wrong.
reckless aim: -3
You are rigth it should be +2 not +6 or -3.
I'm sorry, I brain derped. Meant Deadly aim.
So in melee this ranger is 2handing a great axe, assuming power attack 18str and rage
8bab+4str+2rage-3 power attack+1 masterwork weapon
Total attack bonus:12/7
Damage:d12+18
Favored enemy not included.
This is a fairly accurate melee dude!
I took this of another thread where you was talking about tanking a Black dragon with your monk.
...
Checking it up, yeah my monk could hit the AC on +13 to hit. Any hit starts bleed too, double hit (unlikely) starts more bleed.
...I would just like to mention that in my book you need to hit more than once for Boar Style to do bleed. It says:
"Benefit: You can deal bludgeoning damage or slashing damage with your unarmed strikes—changing damage type is a free action. While using this style, once per round when you hit a single foe with two or more unarmed strikes, you can tear flesh. When you do, you deal 2d6 bleed damage with the attack."You are correct, boar style requires two hits to start the 2d6 bleed, but the bleeding attack feat from the Cheliax book is 1d4 bleed for any unarmed hit. So it is 1d4 for one, but if two in the same round, a bleed upgrade to 2d6. Which I think is really worth the investment.
Not really relevant for the dragon, because when I said my monk tanked I meant the pure definition of tanking in online rpgs/games, he blocked it off and took all it could throw at him for a few rounds, while the rest got to work (ki to add +4 ac, full defence). The ranger didn't do crash hot there, it was our psion that saved the day.
Cheers.
Yes i was told about the bleeding attack feat. With that i would go with snakke style indtraf of Boar style. You dont seem to be Big om intimidate and IMOP that is Half Boar style.
But thanks for explaining the bleeding attack thing:)
Yeah I've got the intimidate pre-reqs, but with my low cha, prob won't be able to use it a lot.
So in melee this ranger is 2handing a great axe, assuming power attack 18str and rage
8bab+4str+2rage-3 power attack+1 masterwork weapon
Total attack bonus:12/7
Damage:d12+18Favored enemy not included.
This is a fairly accurate melee dude!
He is a dwarf. He doesn't have power attack as he took "bow feats".
Not sure he will take power attack since he has been missing a lot.
Might spy on his sheet soon. Tee hee.
How much str does he have?
Assuming 18, heck even 16.
Without power attack he's swinging at like +15(+19-17 on favored enemy)! That's turbo accurate!
How much str does he have?
Assuming 18, heck even 16.
Without power attack he's swinging at like +15(+19-17 on favored enemy)! That's turbo accurate!
I do wonder about his str. His dex is great, that I know and his reflex is above that of my monk.
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This is really just sounding like he had a storm of unfortunate events
-possibly bad stat selection
-bad itemization (I dont know all his items, but using an adamantine Great aaxe is very telling)
-bad favored enemy selection
-likely bad feat selection
-bad rolls
No wonder hes doing poorly.
I can't blame him. So many trap options in this game its sad.
Builds or it did not happens. But with all the spaltbook material and good sytem mastery I am pretty confident that monks can be good damage dealers.
Note on splat: Mythic monk,25 point buy goblin...EPIC!!...in a mostly non mythic game ;)
This is really just sounding like he had a storm of unfortunate events
-possibly bad stat selection
-bad itemization (I dont know all his items, but using an adamantine Great aaxe is very telling)
-bad favored enemy selection
-likely bad feat selection
-bad rollsNo wonder hes doing poorly.
I can't blame him. So many trap options in this game its sad.
I hadn't thought of it as trap options. I guess the problem with cool build options is that if you don't get it right, you may be really far behind.
I just hope the guy doesn't jettison the ranger, and that he gets better (luck) because while he is lower on damage, he does have a role that he fills and does contribute.
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I believe character creation to be the hardest part of Pathfinder, so no shame to him. If I was DM I'd talk to him and let him change some stuff around a bit.
Thanks for the compliment on the monk being competently built. My first one (vanilla pf core monk), it wasn't that hard to do though. I like the results thus far. I do really think that the vanilla monk can be very strong and with a lot of tricks up their monk robe sleeves, you just can't skimp on STR. Would the quarterstaff monk with mastery also out-damage my current build? No bleed, but spec on a monk weapon would clean the dojo.
Thoughts?
I don't know how many characters this other guy has made, but as I said, far more experienced than I in this system.
Now if only he could hit with more of those arrows!
I know a guy who's played a lot of 3.5 and now plays PF. Makes bad characters all the time.
Time spent playing=/= system mastery. He's a great RPer though. I'm gonna ask him if I can build his character next game or something.
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Exactly what aspect of an adamantine great axe makes the character or weapon bad? Is it because it is not an adamantine great sword where he can average a single additional point of damage per hit? Is it because he chose to have a weapon made of adamantine at all? I have met more than one well built character with an adamantine dagger, and the cost of adamantine gear is prohibitive. Making your main weapon out of it and not needing an adamantine weapon plus a regular fully enchanted one doesn't sound like a a suboptimal choice. Maybe for his level it's not great relative to his wealth. But even that is dubious since everyone and their mom (except for me) thinks that damage reduction is the most impossible obstacle that demands the right answers (I have always simply punched through it, even on low DMG characters).
At any rate, why is this choice of weapon so suspect and bad? I feel like I am missing something that is obvious (In my defense I am also quite tired, too).
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Adamantine weapons bypass HARDNESS not DR. Except in the specific cases where DR is bypassed by Adamantine.
His choice in weapon shows that he's wasting gold on items that don't help him. Why have an expensive adamantine great axe as an archer? Buying one expensive item he doesn't need at such a low level is similar to a 14 year old saving up for months at a part time job to buy a painting instead of a motorcycle. Sure the Painting is nice, but it doesn't help him in his day to day life, unlike a motorcycle.
Considering how poorly he's doing in game with one of the strongest martial classes he must be doing something wrong and bad itemization is a likely possibility.
Well it is also a pretty tough axe, so maybe he wants reliability?
Nothing wrong with his bow and many arrows though.
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Did someone really just suggest a 14 year old should have anything to do with a motorcycle?
In america, hordes of people who drive are unsafe and dangerous people. And it is well understood by many veteran motorcyclists that 'it's a matter of time' before you get in the lethal accident. They are anything but safe and made worse by the masses of inconsiderate drivers. Just sounds so awkward hearing that suggestion, though in other countries scooters and such are safer because they have more considerate drivers and simply less traffic.
I would go with the painting (and suggest it and be proud of the 14 yr old for grabbing that) every time. Though, I hope you were just using random suggestions and not really specific ones. But to each his own. :D
As to the greataxe, I forgot the guy was an archer. In this case, a thorough waste of money, indeed.
I am confused about how raging leads to a higher miss rate. What am I missing here?
I had that problem with my Barbarian too. It was the Dice Gods, as soon as I raged for some odd reason I couldn't roll about 5 to hit unless it was my bite attack which almost always was a critical. I end up taking reckless abandon and surprise accuracy just so I could in on roll of a 3. If I didn't rage I rolled average but then I needed to roll higher to hit. Still I hit more often. I was just bizarre, the other player thought it was pretty funny I was raging biter who useless with the two handed sword.
Verily this is the problem he is facing, so far.
Update:
The ranger had some good hits this game, but my monk still got more with a higher amount of damage output.
The ranger also almost died to an upgraded assassin vine, but was saved by the heroic sorcerer.
Apparently some major foes are ahead, so the challenge continues next week!
I can not believe how bad the ranger has been rolling.
Fortunately the monk call fill in a bit, but must avoid tanking too hard.
Monk still on top.