| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I've seen a couple of references towards divine casters with regards to this prestige class.
1) Hero Lab allows you to select Divine class for spell progression.
2) http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qlhb?Community-Feedback-Desired-Proposing-Syne rgy This thread mentions divine or arcane as a possible retrain option for the Daivrat.
The combination of these 2 has me wondering if I've missed an errata or ruling.
I would really love for this to be allowed for divine as it fits into the character background. If not well the search continue for any hope of a decent divine PRC for oracles...
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I think the issue here is that nothing about the class suggests it would be arcane-only, except for the table. Since the prerequisites don't require you to be able to cast arcane spells, and since the actual text write-up of the "Spells" ability likewise doesn't specify arcane-only, it's likely that the table is simply wrong.
Well the source material has the following information
Requisite
Ability to cast 3rd level spells.
(Note as above poster mentioned there is no indicator if its divine or arcane... normally they specify)
The table however just mentions +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class.
Throw in the topic I mentioned and the hero lab program and I'm confused.
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Well the source material has the following information
Requisite
Ability to cast 3rd level spells.
(Note as above poster mentioned there is no indicator if its divine or arcane... normally they specify)
The table however just mentions +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class.
Throw in the topic I mentioned and the hero lab program and I'm confused.
The topic and Hero Lab mean nothing. The only thing of importance is the question if the class write up mentions arcane spells (like Eldritch Knight or Dragon Disciple do). Since it doesn't, it progresses divine spells.
Hence the confusion. It would be nice to get a ruling on this as the product is unclear.
The ruling is that text beats tables. Therefore the Daivrat progresses divine casters.
. . .
Spells
At the indicated levels, a daivrat gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a daivrat, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Yes. It has no mention of arcane or divine. It advances which ever spellcasting you entered the class with or whichever you choose if you had more than one.
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I'd advise against the use of PFSRD, though. They are prone to rename stuff or remove prerequisites. Stick either to the books or Archives of Nethys.
Ah so its that particular passage your referring to when you say to run it as written.
That should be much easier to sell to my DM who is fairly reasonable regardless. I just didn't want him thinking I was trying to bend the rules.
Thanks guys, that's much clearer for me now!
Bump and FAQ.
Did some more research into this, and while I didn't find a ruling about whether Daivrat progression of divine spellcasting is legal Rules As Written, it suffers from the problem that the feat that is a prerequisite for the prestige class is essentially completely useless on a Cleric or Oracle (didn't check Druid, but I think it has the same problem), because Spell Focus (Conjuration) only increases the Saving Throw DC of Conjuration spells, and all of the Conjuration spells on the Cleric/Oracle list up through 4th level (7th or 9th class level, by which time you are going to want to enter the prestige class) do not offer a saving throw(*), except for the Cure Wounds series, but slapping Undead with Cure Wounds spells usually isn't a good way to go (even with the +1 to the Saving Throw DC). Some weird Domains or Mysteries might offer bonus spells that are exceptions to this observation (I didn't bother to check all of these), but these are going to be few and far in between. I did't chck very carefully, but the Psychic spell list up to 4th level seems to have this problem as well with only very rare exceptions. Once you get into 2 levels of Daivrat, you can get some spells for which Spell Focus (Conjuration) would be of use, but only 1 spell per day (although you could use it multiple times), and with a spell level tax, so you wouldn't want that to be all that a whole feat is good for (if you could get this feat in a trait, it might eventually be okay, but that's still an awful lot of levels to go through with it before it becomes usable).
(*)And not even an Attack Roll or CMB check, if you house-ruled the +1 to go to those if the spell had no saving throw.
In contrast, the Sorcerer/Wizard list actually has some pretty good (sometimes eve overpowered for their level) Conjuration spells that have Saving Throws, so if you build right, Spell Focus (Conjuration) isn't just a feat tax.
It's too bad, because I like building Gishy characters, and wanted to build one for Legacy of Fire that would proceed into Daivrat(even though as a d6, 1/2 BAB prestige class, that isn't optimal, but this makes it even worse, because if you are starting with a d6, BAB class you don't even get a good start with the combat stuff, and you DON'T want to go into a prestige class like this with spellcasting that is slower than 9/9.
Druids have some Conjuration Spells that offers saves IIRC. But more importantly Spell Focus (Conjuration) is a prerequisite for Augmented Summoning which is really nice for them.
Right, I forgot about Augmented Summoning, although that makes Spell Focus (Conjuration) be a feat tax for 2 things instead of one, which is better, but still not great, since the number of Druid spells of levels 1 - 4 that are Conjuration but allow Saving Throws seems to be very small (I probably missed a few, but they are certainly much less numerous than for Sorcerer/Wizard). Of course, if you're gonig Augmented Summoning, then it could still be worthwhile, but that just says that Summoning and Augmented Summoning are really good, not that Spell Focus (Conjuration) is good, especially if you are feat-starved like any gishy build is going to be.
Doing more research on this class and possible entries makes me really think it was supposed to be for arcane entry only, because it just doesn't synergize very well with a divine class (although I haven't checked Shaman, but it was written a long time before Shaman, so even if Shaman is good for this, it doesn't count).
But I actually came up with a different question about this prestige class:
At 6th level, a daivrat can select a zhyen to serve as his familiar, replacing any familiar he already possesses, as if he had the Improved Familiar feat.
Does this mean that it gives me a free Zhyen Familiar if I get there with no Familiar, and what do I use as the effective class level to determinen advancement? Or do I have to have a normal Familiar first for this prestige class feature to take effect?
Edit #1: Just noticed that Daivrat is from Qadira, Gateway to the East, which was published in June 2009 (part way through Legacy of Fire), while the Core Rulebook was published in August 2009!
Edit #2: And its Evil counterpart (although not twin) Genie Binder is from around the same time, but from the Legacy of Fire Adventure Path instead of from Qadira, Gateway to the East.
Go to Archives of Nethy....... progress is arcane.
Go to Archives of Nethy....... progress is arcane.
Not really. Text trumps table and the text does not mention a type of magic.
As for the familiar part, it starts saying you can select a Zhyen as a familiar replacing the familiar he had, if he had one.
Now whether it was intended to be purely arcane is a very different question. As it stands, it isn't.
Go to Archives of Nethy....... progress is arcane.
Sorry, what I meant is what determines progression of the Zhyen Familiar -- just the Daivrat prestige class, or all your spellcasting classes? The Daivrat description doesn't give a description of Familiar progression at all.
Since this prestige class comes from before the Pathfinder Core Rulebook came out (although presumably it was in playtest -- anybody remember playtest dates?), it probably should just be considered obsolete, although unfortunately no replacement exists for Daivrat or Genie Binder -- maybe Sorcerer and Wizard archetypes for arcane, and Oracle and Shaman archetypes for Divine?
Sorry, what I meant is what determines progression of the Zhyen Familiar -- just the Daivrat prestige class, or all your spellcasting classes? The Daivrat description doesn't give a description of Familiar progression at all.
Since this prestige class comes from before the Pathfinder Core Rulebook came out (although presumably it was in playtest -- anybody remember playtest dates?), it probably should just be considered obsolete, although unfortunately no replacement exists for Daivrat or Genie Binder -- maybe Sorcerer and Wizard archetypes for arcane, and Oracle and Shaman archetypes for Divine?
More suitable would be Cleric and Oracle as the Cleric list has some genie related spells on it I believe and Shaman doesnt.
^Cleric could work, but no reason that a Shaman archetype couldn't modify the spell list (some Shaman Spirits modify the spell list beyond the bonus spells anyway).