Self-Sufficient, Versatile Concepts for Society play?

[Hexamony]

I'm rather new to Pathfinder, and recently discovered there are places online to do PbP PFS, but the closer I get to trying to make a character, the more tumultuous my thoughts become. I've read up on how to make interesting characters, but that doesn't help me with the concept, and I can't really ask for build help till I have one.

So, experienced Pathfinders, what are some good concepts for self-sufficient Society characters that might also bring a few unexpected, but useful, skills to the team?

[Secane]

That is a very broad question. Could you give us some more info on what you would like to play as?

As in:
- What kind of character would like to play as?
- What role/s do you see yourself fulfilling?
- Are there any factional character you like?

Need more info for character concept that suits YOU.

[andreww]

PFS has several elements to it if you want to be self sufficient. You must be able to contribute something to combat but that is not the be all and end all. Skill use is very prevalent in PFS scenarios so having one or more areas where you excel is important. Knowledge skills, diplomacy, perception and trap removal are all extremely useful. Stealth can be useful but is often hard to use in random PFS groups.

The other factor will very much be level. At low level Wizards and Sorcerers need people around them or they are likely to end up dead. At mid to high levels this becomes much less true. Clerics and Druids are just generally competent although Clerics have more of an issue with skills. Oracles can similarly work well, Battle if you want more of a physical combat edge, Lore if you want to make all of the knowledge skills and Lunar if you want a mix.

At lower levels the 3/4 caster classes also shine. Bards, Magi, Inquisitors, all of them gain access to a lot of skills, can be built to easily contribute to combat and bring a range of useful class features. Paladins and Rangers can do well as well although they have fewer options as their spell casting is delayed.

Personally I would stay away from purely martial classes. Fighters, Gunslingers and Barbarians bring a lot of damage but not much more than that. While you can build them to contribute in other areas you lose a fair amount doing so. Rogues I find are far too squishy and Monks seem to be the Design Teams favourite punching bag for removing any decent option that might sneak through.

Having said all of that the level of optimisation required for success in PFS is relatively low. That can change in the upper tiers a bit but you should still be able to complete scenarios without having the latest cutting edge build.

[Imbicatus]

Inquisitors and Bards are extremely self sufficient but are also capable of really boosting party success. As 3/4 BAB classes with self-buffing through Judgements and Performance they are are able to be competent combatants. They have additional capabilities with spellcasting and they get 6 skill points per level to be useful out of combat. They are also both very able to act as a party Face for NPC interactions.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Just about anything (that's Society legal) will fit your bill. Do what you like. If you want specifics, I can add to what's been said above:

Rogue - competent fighters who can become vicious under commonly-occurring circumstances, can make almost any ability score array work, several powerful abilities that'd allow them to survive situations most others wouldn't, LOTS of Archetypes to their name, their skill options are second to none. Unorthodox Ideas That Totally Work: favor Strength over Dexterity and achieve proficiency in heavy armor and big weapons (there are many ways to do so); start out with an Intelligence of 19 or 20 and be a skill-point MONSTER (a Human Rogue who starts with 20 Intelligence and takes a skill point every level for their favored class bonus gets 15 skill points/level from day 1, and can only get better); a non-combat specialist with very balanced ability scores (but probably favoring Dexterity, Wisdom, and Charisma) whom one should nevertheless fear to turn their back on in combat

Barbarian - the only class in the game with a d12 Hit Die, surprisingly good skill options, wide array of Archetypes, Rage Powers can do all kinds of cool things. Unorthodox Ideas That Totally Work: an exceptionally high-Charisma Barbarian who leans heavily on the Intimidate skill and takes Rage Powers that benefit from high Charisma; a hit point maniac who starts with 19 or 20 Constitution (i.e. a Dwarf Barbarian, perhaps favoring a dwarven waraxe and shield, who starts with 20 Constitution, the Toughness feat, and an additional hit point per level from favored class bonus, who would wind up with 21 hit points at level 1 and, using Pathfinder Society's Hit Die rules, gain 14 hit points or more EVERY LEVEL after 3rd); a SMART BARBARIAN (we're talking an Intelligence of 14 or 16 here - a great thing to do with Elves, who can easily achieve a similar Dexterity score and wield an Elven curve blade while they're at it) who might edge away from combat prowess in exchange for formidable ability as the party outdoorsman

Alchemist - one of the most versatile classes in the game, excellent skill options, many cool Archetypes that extend the class's already-wide boundaries, Discoveries can accomplish all kinds of crazy things, near-exclusive ability to circumvent Pathfinder Society's prohibition on item creation, allowing them to brew poisons and all kinds of other useful alchana on the cheap. Unorthodox Ideas That Totally Work: Honestly? With their exceptional "jack-of-most-trades" potential and all their wacky Archteypes and Discoveries, the things you can do with this class that wind up fitting that description easily outnumber those that don't.

[Mystically Inclined]

In terms of class mechanics, Paladin is another really good option.

1. Heavy armor means it has decent AC.

Paladin AC comments that are a bit of a thought derail.:

Sword and board style (one handed sword and a sheild) makes for really high AC that is hard to hit. Paladins are one of the best AC tanks in the game. I actually don't recommend this for two reasons. First, your damage will be lower which sometimes makes it worthwhile for enemies to simply go around you. Second, one of the key features about the Paladin is their ability to absorb damage and heal it as a swift action. If they can't hit you in the first place, they're going to spend time hitting someone else. At that point, your ability to absorb damage on behalf of the party and self-heal just got tossed out the window. Instead, you want to be a target that is difficult to hit but still hittable. That will allow you to take the brunt of the damage being directed at your group. Then you can lay on hands yourself to self heal while still fighting.

Plus, the fights won't last as along (and thus the party will take less damage) if you yourself are doing more damage to the bad guys. So yeah, two handed weapon Paladins for the win.

2. Lay on Hands means it's a self sufficient healer who can even help others out a bit here and there.

3. High saves mean you will be less likely to fall victim to will save spells (which will either take you out of the fight or turn you against your party) or fort saves spells (which will poison/plague/ability damage you and take party resources to heal). Additionally, you get immunities to some of that fort save stuff and a large chunk of haunt effects, which is huge in the right scenario.

4. Being a divine spellcaster allows you to cast scrolls of restoration, lesser restoration, and cure spells. You can even cast them yourself later on. Now not only are you self sufficient- you're providing extra resources for the party.

5. PFS is very skill heavy, and Paladins are great at diplomacy. This gives you something to be good at out of battle. Gathering Information is another use of Diplomacy, which means you're not a bad investigator. Knowledge Religion comes up alot for undead identification (in battle) and various other stuff (out of battle), and that's another skill often chosen by Paladins. Both are valuable for a party to have. I'd also recommend putting 1 skill point into climb, swim, and ride. If you have enough skill points for a third maxed out skill, choose perception.

6. PFS puts you against a lot of evil creatures. Actually, adventuring in general tends to do that. Because of this, Paladins can often smite the really critical monsters. Even a sword and board Paladin can get a decent amount of damage from his one handed sword from smite. For a two handed weapon weilding Paladin, you'll be doing as much (if not more) damage as a two-handed weapon weilding Barbarian.

Mechanically, that's about as self sufficient as you get. Paladins contribute heavily in battle, can heal, can cast scrolls/wands for others, can be the party face out of battle, can gather information, and provide a bit of knowledge. The only things they're really bad at are infiltration (can't sneak, prefer not to lie and very likely aren't trained in bluff). They don't have a lot of knowledge skills but they try to have Religion (which is one of the most commonly used knowledges) and can Gather Information (which is often used a fallback for research when someone doesn't have Knowledge local or history). Honestly, the biggest drawback to playing them is the roleplay restriction. If you want to play a boyscout, then fantastic. If you don't, then all those mechnical goodies are out of reach. :/ (FYI- Inquisitor is a good fallback class if you don't want to be Lawful Good, and an optimized Magus is so well rounded that it can literally go on solo adventures if you build it just right. That kind of Magus takes a high degree of system mastery so I wouldn't attempt it right now though.)

So that's the mechanical answer. But with all that said... I get the impression you're not looking for a mechanical answer. You're looking for character ideas that fit the mindset of an independent Pathfinder. For that, the Paladin isn't a very good fit. I'd go with Inquisitor, Druid, Alchemist, Bard (all of whom happen to be well rounded mechanically) or possibly even Cleric or Ranger. Slayer and Rogue are both classes that should be independent and self-sufficient accoridng to fluff but aren't built that way mechanically.

[Jiggy]

Here's a couple of general tips if you're going for "self-sufficient" and/or "versatile", as your OP/thread title suggest:

• Play a spread of stats, rather than a hyper-focused one. For instance, 16/14/14/12/10/8 is about as close as you can get to the Heroic NPC stat array with a 20pt buy, which offers a nice "real person" feel and offers room for secondary stats that can help broaden your PC's capabilities.

• Play a versatile class. Fighters are hard to make do much besides fight, wizards are hard to make do anything but cast, but a caster with 3/4 BAB and some buffs can be very flexible. A fighty cleric, a dueling bard, a magus, an eldritch knight, an inquisitor... These are all things that can do a mix of fighting, talking, utility, etc.

For instance, you might do a human cleric with stats of 18/12/14/10/14/8 and a feat for Heavy Armor Proficiency. You'll be solid in combat, have some great utility/condition removal spells, and be able to support decent Diplomacy as well.

[Rycaut]

My current low-level PFS character (all my other characters are between level 8 and 11 - with three rapidly approaching level 11, one at 10 and one at 8) is an Urban Barbarian with an 8 STR.

(yes - a barbarian with a low STR)

yet he is surprisingly effective at low levels and I hope will be a lot of fun to play as he levels up. Urban Barbarian means he is very flexible and my plan for him is to use his very high CHA via a likely future multiclassing (originally I was thinking Rage Prophet so some Oracle levels but I may do something crazier with him).

The key however to being self sufficient in PFS play is to be flexible yet also able to contribute to nearly any party. This means, ideally, a way to do the following on your own:

- heal yourself (potions will do in a pinch but being able to use a wand of cure light wounds or infernal healing is best - UMD if necessary)

- contribute in combat (threatening & providing a flank or aid-another actions as a minimum but ideally being able to hit & deal damage when necessary) - you don't have to be a melee type to accomplish this - range contributions are also useful (but have some means of threatening when you can help via providing a flank - your rogues & melee types will thank you

- have at least one or two skills you can help with (via aid-another if not directly via checks). You don't have to be a skill "monkey" to succeed in PFS play but a well built skill monkey who isn't a liability in combat will help nearly every party.

- when you can afford it have a range of weapon types, special materials, and misc useful alchemical items, minor magic items etc. If you don't use them directly have them to loan/give to a fellow party member who needs them. And don't neglect to consider how some cheap potions (especially at low levels) may really help (enlarge person even for a non-primary melee type can help make you more effective between gaining reach & greater weapon damage) and there are a bunch of other minor spells that can be really helpful and flexible. But even having a few alchemist fires can be exceptionally useful when facing say a swarm or two (which is common in PFS)

Most of all to enjoy PFS have a strong character concept and "hook" and be mechanically effective enough to be enjoyable to play and to play with (i.e. don't be an obvious burden to your party or someone who reduces the fun for everyone else - and you can do that via being too optimized as well as via being so unoptimized as to be ineffectual). It is also good to have a plan for how your character may change over time - what worked well at low levels may no longer be a good plan at higher levels - so it is good to have other things you can do or offer to the party.

[Wolfspirit]

Here's a few things I view as important to be considered "versatile" for PFS play (edit: though it appears Rycount beat me to a few points :)) :

-Have some method to contribute to different kinds of combat. You don't have to be super-optimized around combat, but being able to do *something* every combat is important. Past your first adventure, you should have some means to do ranged damage and have a plan when fighting things with DR or are immune to your favorite spells.

-Have a means to heal yourself. The ubiquitous 2 Prestige Point wand is a must and I personally have a hard time not having a means to actually use one on myself, either from a class that can cast spells, a class dip, or Use Magic Device.

-Have meaningful skills. This will vary by class / stats, but Perception is the most rolled skill in the game, followed by Diplomacy. Other useful skills include spell craft, Use Magic Device, and a bevy of Knowledge skills (Planes, Local, Religion, Nature are roughly how I'd rank them.)

It's still possible to be a valuable member of the party with a 2 skill point/ level class with a low Intelligence, wisdom, and charisma... but there's a potential you're going to be less than useful for parts of the scenario.

-Be prepared. No class can do everything alone, but you can shore up some of your weak points through consumables. And rope. Never forget the 50' rope.

-If you're a spellcaster, consider adding versatile staples to your prepared / known spells. For example, the spell Glitterdust is spectacular as it removes Invisibility and can Blind. Vary up the damage types of your spells. A pure Blaster type *can* do well in many scenarios, but the character that lives to see how many Fireballs they can use in a day is going to be disappointed at a Wedding or a Library.

So, you didn't say what kind of character you enjoy, but here's a few versatile favorites of mine:

-Paladin. Paladins are out of the box incredibly versatile in being able to ignore DR of lots of the things you'll be fighting, can use a wand of CLW at level 1, have good proficiencies, resistances, diplomacy... For the "surprisingly versatile" I run a Paladin that has a focus on ranged combat With a high strength, dexterity, and charisma. He has single handedly saved the Party by dealing damage at range (negating DR of the BBEG), stepping up to heal dying party members, and taking hits when the primary frontliner went down.

-Reach Cleric. For the "surprisingly versatile", a reach cleric is a fighty cleric with a reach weapon, combat reflexes, and a bevy of useful abilities depending on what domains they have. Some favorites are Travel / Strength or Growth and Feather.

-Archeologist Bard. It's been described as a rogue that gives up Sneak Attack for awesome, and I agree.

Anyway, if you have further specifications on character types you enjoy, chime in.

[Hexamony]

Lots of great advice, thank you. A lot of it is quite mechanical, but I'll find that useful as I realize the other areas of thinking I've been overlooking.

I've played a variety of games over the years, but when the question of 'What do you like to play?' comes up, my first thought tends to be 'What do I like to play? Why don't I know what I like to play?'. Or maybe I feel I should have a better answer. Experience shows I tend to favor the long-ranged, support type roles, but I want to try other things. I plan to GameMaster in a few months, and it feels even more important that I stretch myself to better understand different characters.

I also haven't read the Society Guide thoroughly enough to know the factions.

However, I do have one concept, and the advice I've heard supports it. One thread I saw suggests building a character around a Day Job. Looking at the options, I had the idea for a Scribe. He goes adventuring, and returns home to write novels of his experiences. The Archaeologist Bard sounded like a good fit, but I got weird when I found a Bard guide that says Wis is a dump stat. However, I now realize I don't need to have the bonus from a high Wis to use Profession as having a large pool of skill points will offset that.

Past that, how do I go about finding better answers or confidence in the types of characters and roles I like to play? What do others like? I ask because hearing what others answer gives me thinking fodder.