Hello again, I was wondering if you'd like to help me make a decision about something. My alchemist Kethrad is approaching Level 8 and just picked up Rapid Shot for something to do when using a bomb isn't a good idea. He's been using a longbow since I started at 2nd level and just traded it in for a +1 Adaptive composite longbow for some extra damage. I'll post relevant stats below:
Elf Grenadier Alchemist 7
Str: 12
Dex: 18 (+2 bonus from a Dex belt)
Con: 10 (A poor choice, I've rolled VERY low on health)
Int: 19 (+1 going into this at Level 8)
Wis: 12
Cha: 8
BAB +5
Saves:
Fort - +6
Refl - +10
Will - +5 (+1 from Indomitable Will trait, +2 vs Enchantment)
Magic Items:
Cloak of Resistance +1
Eyes of the Eagle
+2 Chain Shirt
+2 Belt of Incredible Dexterity
+1 Ring of Protection
Ring of Swimming
+1 Adaptive Composite Longbow
Discoveries:
Infusion
Precise Bombs
Explosive Missile
Wings
Smoke Bomb
Feats:
Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Extra Discovery (Wings)
Rapid Shot
My group consists of a melee Barbarian and Monk, a ranged bow / bomb Alchemist, and a Cleric to provide spells and healing. The thing is, our Barbarian is better at dealing ranged damage than I am thanks to a +1 Adaptive bow, high strength, and a good attack bonus, yet I'm the one who's supposed to be good at it and I feel like I haven't been dealing enough damage to be considered a threat.
Hence, I've been debating a dip into another class (possibly Fighter) for more BAB and feats to back up my damage potential. Of course I'm a bit worried about delaying my CL, infusion progression, and bomb damage. I'm willing to give some things up if it makes my contribution to the team more worthwhile, however. Can anyone more experienced help me make a decision?
Another issue is the lack of CC in our group. Are there any options (beyond Stink Bomb, of course) I can take to help with that?
Forgot to mention that, I've got the funnel already - Nova Arrows (Funnel, Explosive Missile) carried me through a couple levels.
I was planning on going for Manyshot at 9, but beyond that I have no idea where I should go from here. One of the good things about taking levels in Fighter is having so many feats, so if I need another important discovery I can pick up a feat for that.
In addition I haven't rolled more than a 3 on health since level 2, so my total there isn't even in the upper-30s.
If you need help with health, I'd consider the Toughness feat. +1 health per level ain't shabby when that's almost 1/3 of your life. If you're taking Fighter levels anyway, it's not a bad idea.
The thing is, once I hit 8th level I'm taking my 8th level of Alchemist. If I dip, it'll be starting at 9th level so I have access to some of the better discoveries first. If any class I dip into gets extra feats, I can spend my regular feats on Extra Discovery and get combat feats with the ones granted from my class.
And I know why I would buy Conductive, but I can't afford it just yet. Soon, though.
The main advantages I see to, say, a 3-level Weapon Master Fighter dip are these:
- +1 BAB (kinda)
- 2 Feats
- +3 Fortitude
- +1 to Attack and Damage rolls
The disadvantages I see are these:
- -2d6 bomb damage
- -3 CL
- -6 skill points
- -1 reflex
- Slower access to high-level discoveries.
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He's been using a longbow since I started at 2nd level and just traded it in for a +1 Adaptive composite longbow for some extra damage.That is all.
It does not satck with Explosive missile, and it is a bit late for just adding another way to have a strong standard action attack.
It is not a bad feat, but it is not great either.
Shrug. Dude said he was looking for a way to do damage when "a bomb would be a bad idea." Get your hands on a Wand of Gravity Bow and some Bracers of Falcon's Aim in the meantime. Now you're an alchemist with a painful surprise for anyone who thought they were safe scrapping with your allies in melee.
I"m in the same position with my archery alchemist.
I considered trapper ranger, to get trap finding, and lore warden fighter. Still considering, actually. I just hit 5th level.
I have to say, focused shot isn't the answer. It' s the 30 foot range that kills it for me. If an enemy is within bomb distance, I bomb him. If further away, I use arrows.
So, bonus arrow damage within 30 feet isn't good for either one of those, which is lame.
I considered Focused Shot before, but the standard action kills it for me. My INT bonus will only be +5 next level, and I don't think another 5 damage when I could be shooting multiple arrows (or an Explosive + Alchemical Weapon arrow) is worth it. Also, our GM banned rangers for this campaign, so that's not really an option (it was my initial choice before I learned about the ban).
I don't have a specific build in mind, which is why I'm open to suggestions. I'm the only one who spends time actively using ranged combat, so I want to be the best at my job. Our optimization level is a little below average, so I'm okay with sub-optimal choices as long as they don't make me worse.
Update:
Our party's Cleric left the group for story reasons, so that player's rolling up a new character (probably a wizard). In addition, our Barbarian's player can no longer make it and thus we're losing our most reliable source of damage. The DM has approved the Alchemy Manual and everything in it, so there's now a few more options than I thought to choose from.
Any suggestions?
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You want the Bullseye Shot feat. Your best damage is your standard action so giving up your Move action to get a +4 attack bonus on your next attack roll is pretty much a win for you. It's been really helpful on my Tiefling Grenadier Alchemist, who mostly has the same build that you do.
One tactic I use is to put a smokestick inside my arrow as a swift action with my Grenadier ability, and then use Explosive Missile. The fire from the bomb damage sets off the smokestick on the target and at least forces him to move instead of take a full attack action to avoid the miss chance. It works better if I can tanglefoot bag him first. Sadly, this is a PFS character so I can't call on my other party members to invest in a Goz Mask so they can see clearly through smoke, but maybe you'll have better luck with your party?
EDIT: Oh wait, you already have Smoke Bomb, which I haven't been able to pick up yet. But the Goz masks are still a good idea. If you can fire from inside your own smoke cloud, that's better defense for you, and you might catch the enemy flatfooted.
Hello again, I was wondering if you'd like to help me make a decision about something. My alchemist Kethrad is approaching Level 8 and just picked up Rapid Shot for something to do when using a bomb isn't a good idea. He's been using a longbow since I started at 2nd level and just traded it in for a +1 Adaptive composite longbow for some extra damage. I'll post relevant stats below:
Elf Grenadier Alchemist 7
Str: 12
Dex: 18 (+2 bonus from a Dex belt)
Con: 10 (A poor choice, I've rolled VERY low on health)
Int: 19 (+1 going into this at Level 8)
Wis: 12
Cha: 8BAB +5
Saves:
Fort - +6
Refl - +10
Will - +5 (+1 from Indomitable Will trait, +2 vs Enchantment)Magic Items:
Cloak of Resistance +1
Eyes of the Eagle
+2 Chain Shirt
+2 Belt of Incredible Dexterity
+1 Ring of Protection
Ring of Swimming
+1 Adaptive Composite LongbowDiscoveries:
Infusion
Precise Bombs
Explosive Missile
Wings
Smoke BombFeats:
Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Extra Discovery (Wings)
Rapid ShotMy group consists of a melee Barbarian and Monk, a ranged bow / bomb Alchemist, and a Cleric to provide spells and healing. The thing is, our Barbarian is better at dealing ranged damage than I am thanks to a +1 Adaptive bow, high strength, and a good attack bonus, yet I'm the one who's supposed to be good at it and I feel like I haven't been dealing enough damage to be considered a threat.
Hence, I've been debating a dip into another class (possibly Fighter) for more BAB and feats to back up my damage potential. Of course I'm a bit worried about delaying my CL, infusion progression, and bomb damage. I'm willing to give some things up if it makes my contribution to the team more worthwhile, however. Can anyone more experienced help me make a decision?
Another issue is the lack of CC in our group. Are there any options (beyond Stink Bomb, of course) I can take to help with that?
Not sure if you should multi or not but leaning against it. Awesome to see a character not min maxed to the hilt! Kudos!
I think that taking Rapid Bombs at 8th when you already have Rapid Shot will let you close range nova for 3 bombs per round when throwing them and is more effective than trying to get a 12 strength character to be an effective archer. You will start running into fire immune foes soon if you haven't already. Some way to deal damage other than piercing and fire is a good idea.
I think that taking Rapid Bombs at 8th when you already have Rapid Shot will let you close range nova for 3 bombs per round when throwing them and is more effective than trying to get a 12 strength character to be an effective archer. You will start running into fire immune foes soon if you haven't already. Some way to deal damage other than piercing and fire is a good idea.
Our campaign thus far hasn't included very many creatures with DR or fire resistance, oddly enough, but we've encountered a rather powerful druid more than once who keeps putting up Resist Energy before we fight him. I've mostly gotten around that by using Alchemical Weapon to apply an Acid/Liquid Ice hybrid to my arrows, but an alternate bomb damage type (probably Force or Sonic at this point) would be appreciated.
I thought about Rapid Bombs a couple times myself - the damage good and it'd certainly be the most effective contribution (if only a few times a day) but it doesn't really fit the character concept I'm going for. That doesn't mean I won't consider it, of course.
As for archery, our party's optimization level is pretty low and the DM has kept that in mind when designing encounters, so I don't really feel the need for 14+ strength to do my job well. I do have an Adaptive bow now, though, so a mutagen or bull's strength can boost my damage to respectable levels if necessary.
You want the Bullseye Shot feat. Your best damage is your standard action so giving up your Move action to get a +4 attack bonus on your next attack roll is pretty much a win for you. It's been really helpful on my Tiefling Grenadier Alchemist, who mostly has the same build that you do.
Never saw that feat before. It looks really useful for the build I've got, but it does use one of my precious feat slots. Lodestone Arrows have a similar benefit and don't cost much to craft, so perhaps I can save this feat until 11th (if I'm not dipping, of course) and use those until I get there?
Is there a way to get weapon training for thrown or splash weapons? That would be pretty awesome (especially when combined with weapon spec.)
Is there a way to get weapon training for thrown or splash weapons? That would be pretty awesome (especially when combined with weapon spec.)
I was actually wondering about that for a different character I'm working on (see here).
Tbh, an Alchemist isn't supposed to be one of the better classes when it comes to damage.
Dafuq did I just read?
Turns out you can't take Wings until 6th level, so I must've messed up during the campaign and the GM didn't notice. The only difference is that the Extra Discovery taken at 5th should use Smoke Bomb instead of Wings.
As for the archery and damage stuff, our group's optimization level is kinda low and the GM takes that into account when designing encounters. That said, grenadiers do well enough on damage that I can still contribute - Explosive Missile combined with Alchemical Weapon and a hybridized splash weapon is 1d8+6d6+10 (35.5 damage) with a standard action, and that's before buffs. Not to mention the potential to debuff and lay down cover with smoke bombs and various alchemical items. I get by, but a bit more damage couldn't hurt.
At 10th level you get 4th level extracts; greater invisibility, stoneskin, freedom of movement, greater darkvision, echolocation or monstrous physique II.
At 13th level, 5th level extracts; delayed consumption, monstrous physique III, resurgent transformation.
At 15th level you can easily full attack with arrows with alchemical stuff added.
At 16th level, 6th level extracts with lots of nice stuff.
Any dip delays all this as well as bombs & discoveries.
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If you took my advice about using the Smokestick with Explosive Missile to get the Fog Cloud effect, you could maybe retrain Smoke Bomb for a different discovery. You can craft Smokesticks yourself for less than 7 gp each. That would end up saving you either a discovery or the feat you spent on an extra discovery.
I took Smoke Bomb at first because our group has no CC, so I thought it prudent to work up to the more debilitating poison cloud effects. I can see why the Wings discovery isn't all that great now that I have it, but retraining out of that one is kinda weird - they are real wings, after all, and I can't quite justify removing them in-character since they've been really useful lately.