We need a Blood of the Wild book that would be great to deal with all the beast races like Tengus, Kitsune, Grippli, Catfolk, and so on
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A Blood of Shadows for Fetchlings and Wayangs
A blood of floating balls with eyestalks.
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Someone else was talking about the feyborn (I think that was the name) racial rebuild options in Heroes of the Wild. Could that serve as the foundation that you could then build into a racial version of a "variant multiclass" for a half-faerie dragon?
I am certainly always watching reactions to the fey born options, which was my personal brainchild, to see if we should do something similar for other heritage options.
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Someone else was talking about the feyborn (I think that was the name) racial rebuild options in Heroes of the Wild. Could that serve as the foundation that you could then build into a racial version of a "variant multiclass" for a half-faerie dragon?I am certainly always watching reactions to the fey born options, which was my personal brainchild, to see if we should do something similar for other heritage options.
"Blood of Fey" would be an interesting book... although good luck selecting only a handful of heritages :P. Feys aren't grouped together like Evil or Good outsiders, they are all one of their kinds.
Also, maybe they could go with a non-human hybrid this time around. Aasimars and Tieflings are human-like, so Feyborns (made-up name) could be elven-like.
Still hoping for "Blood of Dragons" as well. If they give us one fully-born draconic race, they would supply to players' demands and possibly overcome that stygma of "hating half-dragons".
Look, the half-dragon template was overused, I witnessed it myself. However, that shouldn't be a reason to not addressing that demand. They fleshed out Aasimars and Tieflings more than WotC ever did, and they essentially became viable alternatives to the half-celestial and half-fiend templates. Skinwalkers are the same thing as a good alternative to the Lycanthrope template.
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Though while I still agree that tiefling/aasimar style half dragon race would be nice(well as long they wouldn't look just like humans with wings/fin ears/claws/scales/horns, that would make them look kinda like tieflings :P), they don't have to give us "half dragon" race just because they did that to other templates. I mean, like, just because D&D had half giant template and made Goliath race from it doesn't mean they will do same in pathfinder, and not just because pathfinder doesn't even have half giant template(unless you count half ogre(or even ogrekin) as one :P) I mean, I have never played 3.5, but I'd assume that if paizo would have to compensate for all half templates from it, there would be a lot of really weird races. But who knows, maybe people in the Internet just exaggerate amount of silly half template pcs xD
Though while I still agree that tiefling/aasimar style half dragon race would be nice(well as long they wouldn't look just like humans with wings/fin ears/claws/scales/horns, that would make them look kinda like tieflings :P), they don't have to give us "half dragon" race just because they did that to other templates. I mean, like, just because D&D had half giant template and made Goliath race from it doesn't mean they will do same in pathfinder, and not just because pathfinder doesn't even have half giant template(unless you count half ogre(or even ogrekin) as one :P) I mean, I have never played 3.5, but I'd assume that if paizo would have to compensate for all half templates from it, there would be a lot of really weird races. But who knows, maybe people in the Internet just exaggerate amount of silly half template pcs xD
Like I said on my opening post:
Is it a mandatory thing for Paizo to make?
Of course not. This isn't a demand or request, but simply a suggestion. I stated above why it would be a good idea, but I'm in no position to order Paizo around when they surely have better and more important products to work on. Such a booklet would be awesome, but it is no need a necessity. Draconic-blooded sorcerers and blood ragers, dragon disciples, kobolds and wyvarans can satisfy a player's taste for dragons in the meantime, and that's without counting what 3rd parties might have published on the subject.
Also, half-giants were psionics, while goliaths were not, so I assume that they "split" the two races to compensate banning the half-giants from non-psionic games. I honestly never understood WHY half-giants were psionics... as there weren't psionic giants to begin with. Goliaths are at least similar to stone giants.
Oh yeah, sorry, forgot what op said
And that is weird indeed ._.; I wonder if there is some explanation for that somewhere...
According to the lore, half-giants were bred that sometimes results into getting psionic powers... even then, that doesn't make any sense.
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According to the lore, half-giants were bred that sometimes results into getting psionic powers... even then, that doesn't make any sense.Oh yeah, sorry, forgot what op said
And that is weird indeed ._.; I wonder if there is some explanation for that somewhere...
I believe some of the psionic races of D&D 3.5 originate in the Dark Sun setting, where most races were naturally psionic. When they made those races setting-neutral, their background ceases to make sense. (I'm assuming it made more sense on Athas.)
I've had two teenage players in my home campaign request to play half-dragons and it's one of the few race requests that I deny because they don't fit the Golarion setting. I have several dragon based adventures planned over the course of the campaign and want to keep them mysterious and evil - not friendly and ubiquitous.
I've had two teenage players in my home campaign request to play half-dragons and it's one of the few race requests that I deny because they don't fit the Golarion setting. I have several dragon based adventures planned over the course of the campaign and want to keep them mysterious and evil - not friendly and ubiquitous.
But over half of all dragon types are good.
I've had two teenage players in my home campaign request to play half-dragons and it's one of the few race requests that I deny because they don't fit the Golarion setting. I have several dragon based adventures planned over the course of the campaign and want to keep them mysterious and evil - not friendly and ubiquitous.But over half of all dragon types are good.
Good =/= interested to cross-breed...
Hell, you can have a white dragon who pillages nordic villages, takes the women hostage, polymorphs into a humanoid and rapes them, leading to the births of white half-dragon children.
(Ok, a little intense, but still...)
I think that it goes more into the matter of whether true dragons are close to "lesser" societies or not. Lycanthropes, for instance, are a common breed of monsters, as unfrequent as they can be. However, over time, their offsprings become less and less like their ancestors and becomes lesser versions of them, like the skinwalkers.
A human woman who has been impregnated by a trumpet archon could give birth to either an aasimar or a half-celestial human, just like an aasimar can be a descendant of half-celestial parents. The geniekins (ifrits, oreads, sylphs, undines and sulis) seem to be commonplace because of certain regions where genies are commonplace.
However, if true dragons aren't interested by how humanoids live their common lives, half-dragons might be unheard of. If a half-dragon is known, then his or her draconic parent isn't obscure either. If a village pays tribute to a dragon for protection (be by force [evil] or by equal exchange [good]), don't be surprise to see a half-dragon roaming the streets.
Still, a draconic race could be a recent discovery. Hey, if they can make shadow-touched characters to be revelant as with the fetchlings (no seriously, the Plane of Shadow isn't a common reference in Golarion), pretty sure a draconic race wouldn't be as jarring as people think.
In the end though, the half-dragon template has tired the community by a huge margin. Would people even BE interested to see a race based on the half-dragon template? (That's how I see the aasimar and tiefling now, just sayin') Paizo is a business afterall, they have to go for books that will generate a profit.
As this thread shows, at least SOME people are interested.
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Just make the draconic race available for PFS for a season, and the aasimar and tiefling, EVERY character will be that. It's hard not to find a multitude of kitsune and nagaji. If it's available, people will play it. The newer, the better. The only real problem are the GMs who'd outright refuse them to exist in their homebrew world.
This is what I don't get. Every single creature in Golarion can be half-dragon, so long as they had monster HD. In fact, it's somewhat encouraged to do so. The only real exception are kobolds, which can even have breath weapons. That seems dumb. Won't sleep with the human bard, but that ogre sure looks sexy. What? I remember reading stories of ancient elves and dragons being lovers because they were so long lived that no one else understood them, and everyone else tended to pass on over time.
If half-dragons aren't a possibility with humanoids, then someone for that argument explain sorcerer and bloodrager bloodlines. There was a dragon or half-dragon in there at some point.
If there is a blood of dragons, kobolds better be in it
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Isn't it so that in Golarion, half dragons aren't usually "dragon shapeshifts and breeds" and more "Mad wizard had access to dragon blood and made experiments"? <_< Since in Golarion, dragons aren't interested in that icky stuff xD
It's also partly that they very much dislike dragonborns, and want to stay as far away from that as possible.
We have kobolds and Wyvarans but I would like at least one more dragon themed playable race.
Isn't it so that in Golarion, half dragons aren't usually "dragon shapeshifts and breeds" and more "Mad wizard had access to dragon blood and made experiments"? <_< Since in Golarion, dragons aren't interested in that icky stuff xD
in what book does it say that dragons aren't interested in that "icky stuff"?
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Isn't it so that in Golarion, half dragons aren't usually "dragon shapeshifts and breeds" and more "Mad wizard had access to dragon blood and made experiments"? <_< Since in Golarion, dragons aren't interested in that icky stuff xDin what book does it say that dragons aren't interested in that "icky stuff"?
Less what is says in books, and more of James Jacobs' Q&A thread xD
Which of course isn't 100% stuff since his opinion is sometimes over written by other writers(because miscommunication happens and because they are too busy so some things get through cracks), but still. Basically, why would ancient beings with huge egos want to make babies with "inferior" beings?
-Because they find them attractive and/or interesting.
-Because they are bored.
-Because a half-dragon offspring is easier to control.
-Because they are lonely or just can't find a dragon mate.
-Because love is a powerful force.
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Isn't it so that in Golarion, half dragons aren't usually "dragon shapeshifts and breeds" and more "Mad wizard had access to dragon blood and made experiments"? <_< Since in Golarion, dragons aren't interested in that icky stuff xDin what book does it say that dragons aren't interested in that "icky stuff"?Less what is says in books, and more of James Jacobs' Q&A thread xD
Which of course isn't 100% stuff since his opinion is sometimes over written by other writers(because miscommunication happens and because they are too busy so some things get through cracks), but still. Basically, why would ancient beings with huge egos want to make babies with "inferior" beings?
I'm willing to play along with this. So, that would mean every single 0 HD race, except kobolds, are seen as inferior and not worthy to be bred with, yet an ancient being with a massive ego looks at a basilisk and goes "I so need a piece of that action." Obviously, because that's always the reference they use for what the template gets put on.
I would think elves and humans would be perfect since all three have egos, but maybe dragons can't handle the strong willed women.|
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Actually, it says in the Bestiary, "Half-dragons are only rarely the result of dragons mating with other creatures—most are the result of strange magical experiments. In most cases, a successful creation breeds true with others of its kind, as with the dreaded dracolisk." So, the dracolisk in question was specifically made by a magical experiment - though the exact nature of the experiment is unknown - and probably not a dragon and a basilisk boinking.
Edit: On the other hand, in Dragons Unleashed, there is an adult forest dragon named Toishihebi who had three half-dragon children with a lizardfolk queen after assuming lizardfolk form, so it does happen at times, though that might be attributed to imperial dragons being a bit different than normal chromatic/metallic dragons? They do have a nation over there ruled by a sovereign dragon in human form, after all...
So, really, we should be expecting an army of zombie half-dragons then. Magical experiments and all, right Paizo? Who better suited than a necromancer.
And the idea of an imperial dragon currently as a human without a human mate. Hmm. I wonder for how long. Probably until they have a child with the dragon sorcerer or bloodrager bloodline. :P|
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-Because they find them attractive and/or interesting.
-Because they are bored.
-Because a half-dragon offspring is easier to control.
-Because they are lonely or just can't find a dragon mate.
-Because love is a powerful force.
I just want to point out that apparently to Golarion dragons, that is kinda like bestiality since they are apparently supposed to be super intelligent when compared to other beings and even good ones have rather big ego about it to the point they see every dragon who does it as kinda insane :P
Actually, it says in the Bestiary, "Half-dragons are only rarely the result of dragons mating with other creatures—most are the result of strange magical experiments. In most cases, a successful creation breeds true with others of its kind, as with the dreaded dracolisk." So, the dracolisk in question was specifically made by a magical experiment - though the exact nature of the experiment is unknown - and probably not a dragon and a basilisk boinking.
Edit: On the other hand, in Dragons Unleashed, there is an adult forest dragon named Toishihebi who had three half-dragon children with a lizardfolk queen after assuming lizardfolk form, so it does happen at times, though that might be attributed to imperial dragons being a bit different than normal chromatic/metallic dragons? They do have a nation over there ruled by a sovereign dragon in human form, after all...
So, really, we should be expecting an army of zombie half-dragons then. Magical experiments and all, right Paizo? Who better suited than a necromancer.
And the idea of an imperial dragon currently as a human without a human mate. Hmm. I wonder for how long. Probably until they have a child with the dragon sorcerer or bloodrager bloodline. :P
Dunno why you think necromancers are only wizads to do experiments xD All wizards are mad and do experiments, why else they would build death trap dungeons with weird monsters as hobby
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Dunno why you think necromancers are only wizads to do experiments xD All wizards are mad and do experiments, why...So, really, we should be expecting an army of zombie half-dragons then. Magical experiments and all, right Paizo? Who better suited than a necromancer.
And the idea of an imperial dragon currently as a human without a human mate. Hmm. I wonder for how long. Probably until they have a child with the dragon sorcerer or bloodrager bloodline. :P
I didn't say that. It's just that necromancers are notoriously stereotyped for doing such things, and I wouldn't want to disappoint Paizo. I mean, why else is the default bestiary lich a necromancer, and not a universalist, conjurationist, or evocationist? Gotta have that one-dimensional villain.
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I'm willing to play along with this. So, that would mean every single 0 HD race, except kobolds, are seen as inferior and not worthy to be bred with, yet an ancient being with a massive ego looks at a basilisk and goes "I so need a piece of that action." Obviously, because that's always the reference they use for what the template gets put on.
I think they use basilisks because one of the big classic D&D adventures - Castle Greyhawk, if I remember correctly - had the original dracolisk.
So half-dragon basilisks are a big nostalgic reference. ^_^
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I find it hard to believe that red dragons only collect young maidens as there treasure but only looks at them.
As this thread shows, at least SOME people are interested.
I think this obsession with half-dragons is just creepy. How many pets do you have at home and how many of them have you bred with?
I would guess none. So why do people in this thread think dragons would have any interest in breeding with humans. It's a stupid idea. Kids like it because they want the mystique of saying "I'm a badass half-dragon, hear me roar. Rawr."
They don't realize that they're watering down the very idea they want to make fierce.
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As this thread shows, at least SOME people are interested.I think this obsession with half-dragons is just creepy. How many pets do you have at home and how many of them have you bred with?
I would guess none. So why do people in this thread think dragons would have any interest in breeding with humans. It's a stupid idea. Kids like it because they want the mystique of saying "I'm a badass half-dragon, hear me roar. Rawr."
They don't realize that they're watering down the very idea they want to make fierce.
Then don't make half-dragons at all. Maybe in your game world that's the case, and you're welcome to do so. Because, it's your game. But for those of us who have played the older system where these existed as standard canon, we'd like it back.
Nonetheless, are you telling me that a kobold doesn't water things down? Or half-dragon ogres. Really? And who cares about humans? There was an old Dragon Magazine that discussed drow and the interbreeding with shadow dragons, but only with a specific drow house. Surface elves could have the same deal. Or the silverbrow humans because only silver dragons actually mated with "lesser" beings. And what's watered down is only being able to access draconic blood through being a sorcerer or bloodrager. There was some breeding in there somewhere.As for you two questions, I have two pets, but no I didn't breed with them. In the future, be careful with answering two questions with one answer. It reads like you're guessing that nobody has any pets.
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As this thread shows, at least SOME people are interested.I think this obsession with half-dragons is just creepy. How many pets do you have at home and how many of them have you bred with?
I'm flattered that you think I'm an immortal, super-intelligent, charismatic, and powerful creature, but I am not in fact a dragon, so this doesn't have anything to do with the discussion at all.
I would guess none. So why do people in this thread think dragons would have any interest in breeding with humans. It's a stupid idea. Kids like it because they want the mystique of saying "I'm a badass half-dragon, hear me roar. Rawr."
They don't realize that they're watering down the very idea they want to make fierce.
Everything breeds with everything on Golarion. We have Half-Orcs, Half-Elves, Half-Demons, Half-Angels, Half-UNDEAD, Half-Genie, Half-Fire/Water/Earth/Air Elemental, and animal people of al shapes, sizes, and colors from the mundane cats and dogs to the exotic tigers and frogs of all things.
I don't think asking for a half-dragon race is too very far-fetched at this point. They don't even have to be bred with dragons. They could be a magical experiment with the ability to breed true or something, like, I dunno, 90% of everything with the Magical Beast type.
Where's the watering down supposed to come from, exactly? They're their own thing, just like Aasimar aren't just watered down Celestials.
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As this thread shows, at least SOME people are interested.I think this obsession with half-dragons is just creepy. How many pets do you have at home and how many of them have you bred with?
How many pets do you own that are sapient, have mastered language, the arts, science and mathematics, and even magic, and might be able to beat you in a contest of wits, game of strategy or arcane knowledge, or even, in the case of elves, be older than you?
It's not a fair comparison. People are people. A good aligned dragon *might* be a racist who considers all non-dragons to be inferior beings, or he might actually have done more than scribble a 'G' under alignment and regard other species capable of language, art, culture, society, arcane development, etc. *far* above anything achieved by dragonkind to be something more than just 'pets.'
Even some of the evil ones might be capable of respecting non-dragons, as with those Golarion greens mentioned in Dragons Gone Wild (Revisited? I forget the title...) who eagerly correspond with astronomers and mathematicians of the 'lesser' races and respect their insights into those disciplines.
It's only creepy if you want it to be creepy. And there's room for that, too, the old 'crazy cat lady' dragon who the other dragons just shake their head over when they hear that after she died, they found a couple hundred humanoids in her lair, all dressed up like dolls, half-dead from neglect.
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I'm flattered that you think I'm an immortal, super-intelligent, charismatic, and powerful creature, but I am not in fact a dragon, so this doesn't have anything to do with the discussion at all.
It took me a couple times reading your post before I realized that the 'pet' you were referring to was a human. Because naturally, an immortal, super-intelligent, charismatic, and powerful creature would be a pet-owner before a pet. I'd still rather play a full dragon, though.
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I'm flattered that you think I'm an immortal, super-intelligent, charismatic, and powerful creature, but I am not in fact a dragon, so this doesn't have anything to do with the discussion at all.It took me a couple times reading your post before I realized that the 'pet' you were referring to was a human. Because naturally, an immortal, super-intelligent, charismatic, and powerful creature would be a pet-owner before a pet. I'd still rather play a full dragon, though.
I love that book so much. I'll be having one of those guys in my upcoming Savage Tide game.
Does jack squat for people who only play PFS though, I admit, as well as people whose GMs don't allow non-Paizo 3rd-party content.
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Hmmm... if the book offers options similar to what WotC's Dragon Magic offered, it would be nice, especially for archetypes.
- Dragonrider for the cavalier
- Dragon Guard for the fighter
- Hoard Hunter for the rogue
- Draconic Zealot for the kineticist
- Draconic familiars
- Dragon-blooded animal companions
- Expansion for the Draconic Bloodline for both sorcerers and bloodragers
- Expansion for the Dragon Deities
Name it, they could go for something about worshipping dragons, be with or without adding a new race.
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Dragon Slayer for the Ranger or... well, the Slayer.
Some sort of Dragon-based Oracle mystery.
An Alchemist archetype all about adding draconic traits to yourself with grafts and/or tinctures.
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Just want to drink up that there's already a Dragonslayer's Handbook. Has multiple feats, dragoncrafting using parts of a dragon, archetypes, slaying spells, equipment, and magic items.
Archetypes include dragon drinker (sorcerer), and dragon hunter (ranger), wyrm sniper (gunslinger).
I'll agree that it would be nice if Paizo released more stuff for dragons as right now it's only being covered by 3PP, such as Rogue Genius Games who have the Dragonrider (think How to Train Your Dragon), including a paladin and cavalier alternate class feature for mounts.
And there is also a Player Companion called Legacy of Dragons coming out in August. I am surprised that nobody has mentioned that book in this thread yet.
Just want to drink up that there's already a Dragonslayer's Handbook. Has multiple feats, dragoncrafting using parts of a dragon, archetypes, slaying spells, equipment, and magic items.
Archetypes include dragon drinker (sorcerer), and dragon hunter (ranger), wyrm sniper (gunslinger).
I'll agree that it would be nice if Paizo released more stuff for dragons as right now it's only being covered by 3PP, such as Rogue Genius Games who have the Dragonrider (think How to Train Your Dragon), including a paladin and cavalier alternate class feature for mounts.
I'm actually talking about archetypes and features that demonstrate kinship with dragons, not how to kill them :P
And there is also a Player Companion called Legacy of Dragons coming out in August. I am surprised that nobody has mentioned that book in this thread yet.
Thanks a bunch for the heads-up ^_^
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I'm actually talking about archetypes and features that demonstrate kinship with dragons, not how to kill them :PJust want to drink up that there's already a Dragonslayer's Handbook. Has multiple feats, dragoncrafting using parts of a dragon, archetypes, slaying spells, equipment, and magic items.
Archetypes include dragon drinker (sorcerer), and dragon hunter (ranger), wyrm sniper (gunslinger).
I'll agree that it would be nice if Paizo released more stuff for dragons as right now it's only being covered by 3PP, such as Rogue Genius Games who have the Dragonrider (think How to Train Your Dragon), including a paladin and cavalier alternate class feature for mounts.
I was referring more to Orthos' post regarding the dragon slayer for a ranger and/or slayer.
There is a good chance that at least some of these archetypes will be in Legacy of Dragons but only time will tell.
There is a good chance that at least some of these archetypes will be in Legacy of Dragons but only time will tell.
Was there any new booklet or book that didn't have archetypes :P ?
I'd be more surprised to see prestige classes than not seeing archetypes at all XD
- Dragon-blooded animal companions
Oh, yes, I'd love me some dragon-themed animal companions; particularly if they scaled somewhat better into the late-game, no matter if we need to invest two-three feats for it.
Wyvern mounts when?
- Dragon-blooded animal companions
Oh, yes, I'd love me some dragon-themed animal companions; particularly if they scaled somewhat better into the late-game, no matter if we need to invest two-three feats for it.
Wyvern mounts when?
Y'know...
If we can get those, I'm sure that we can get dragon-blooded animals and vermins. Granted, you can apply the half-dragon template, but that can be added to show a long-running evolutionary line of species.
Back in WotC's Dragon Magic, we had a feline, an equine and an avian... which looked more 99% draconic than bird-like :P