Can this monsterousity be done?
Sure it can be done.
Understandable. Still, it is quite impressive.
How are you going to make the opponent constantly flat footed to trigger sap master (there are several methods, but I was wondering if you had one particular one in mind)
prototype00
Being invisible makes them lose their dex bonus to AC, it doesn't make them flat footed which is a condition you can only get at the start of combat if you haven't acted yet or can be triggered by certain specific class abilities or feats.
prototype00
The scout archetype is good, but then you lose the full attack routine.
scouts only need to move 5ft. thats full attack
if causing sneak attack is the problem being invisible allows sneak attack, never made sap master so not sure if there is something else.
Scouts need to charge or use their 10ft skirmish to get the flat footed needed for sap master.
Sap master doesn't care if the foe is denied dex. Only if they're flat footed.
What is "invisible blade"? You just mean a blade that is invisible or it this some magic item?
Ah, thanks. Didn't know that.
Good ways to get someone flat-footed... be invisible. Dirty tricks. Catch off Guard. Rogue trick for grease. Startling shot deed. Leadership with a level 7 gunslinger cohort.
There is a ninja trick that allows limited invisibility as well. If you *really* want your DM to throw a book at you, take a level in Synthesist Summoner :-P For a high level campaign, just get permanent invisibility cast on you, or get potions of greater invisibility.
Could you please further elaborate on how a single level of Synthesist would be useful if I'd want the DM to throw the book at me? :)
Invisible: Invisible creatures are visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its opponents' Dexterity bonuses to AC (if any). See Invisibility, under Special Abilities.
Invisible does not cause flat-footed. Only loss of Dex to AC. Which is enough for regular sneak attack, but...
Sap Master (Combat)
You knock the sense out of foes with a well-timed surprise attack.
Prerequisites: Sneak attack +3d6, Sap Adept.
Benefit: Whenever you use a bludgeoning weapon to deal nonlethal sneak attack damage to a flat-footed opponent, roll your sneak attack dice twice, totaling the results as your nonlethal sneak attack damage for that attack.
So being Invisible doesn't render an opponent flat-footed and will not allow you to use Sap Master against them.
From what I read, it says being Flat-Footed only applies if the target hasn't entered combat, which in your point would mean that I could Do a Single Roud of Sneak Attack with Sap Master before the combat starts, however the consecutive rounds don't apply.
*EDIT:
Interesting. So, being Flat-Footed is a one time deal...
Or you could use the Scout Rogue archetype and treat them as flat footed if you charge (4th level) or move 10ft (8th level).
Or you could use shatter defenses after rendering the target shaken (via the enforcer feat) to have them be flat footed.
Personally I like to use both (and throw in the thug rogue archetype to render them frightened when I make them panicked).
Ta da!
prototype00
From what I read, it says being Flat-Footed only applies if the target hasn't entered combat, which in your point would mean that I could Do a Single Roud of Sneak Attack with Sap Master before the combat starts, however the consecutive rounds don't apply.
Well, it's more like if someone hasn't taken their turn in combat yet (barring some special ability) they will be flat-footed. "Entered combat" isn't really a game term so I'm just restating what happens it game terms.
But yes, normally people are only flat-footed until their first turn in combat.
So, if you got a surprise round (unlikely, do not count on this to happen often) you are allowed to make a move action or standard action in a surprise round. You can also make a special charge in which you are limited to moving your normal movement speed and get to make an attack at the end of it. As this is a surprise round they are flat-foted and that first single attack would qualify for Sap Master.
Surprise round ends, now if the enemy has high init than you then you would not be able to catch them flat-footed again. If you have a higher init then you can get a full-attack against the person you're next to and get Sap Master on all attacks. This is sort of the best case scenario.
Assuming you don't get a surprise round, which is much more likely, you will on the first round of combat (and assuming you have higher init) move to the enemy and make a single attack which will qualify for Sap Master. This is what is going to be the common occurance.
What you need is another way to cause the flat-footed condition, and I can't think of anything off the top of my head that causes it, but I think there are some.
Be careful with the Scout Archetype because while it does cause the target to be flat-footed, it will also mean you are limited to one attack because it requires you to be able to move to treat the opponent as flat-footed. In general a full attack with sneak attack will provide more damage than a single attack with Sap Master. However, it would be very useful anytime you have to move to a different target or it your enemies have a habbit of moving away instead of slugging it out with full attacks.
Hence why you have shatter defenses for when you full attack and Scout when you move up to the target.
prototype00
Or you could use the Scout Rogue archetype and treat them as flat footed if you charge (4th level) or move 10ft (8th level).
Or you could use shatter defenses after rendering the target shaken (via the enforcer feat) to have them be flat footed.
Personally I like to use both (and throw in the thug rogue archetype to render them frightened when I make them panicked).
Ta da!
prototype00
But could I take a 10ft step with Skirmisher and do TWF is the question?
But could I take a 10ft step with Skirmisher and do TWF is the question?Or you could use the Scout Rogue archetype and treat them as flat footed if you charge (4th level) or move 10ft (8th level).
Or you could use shatter defenses after rendering the target shaken (via the enforcer feat) to have them be flat footed.
Personally I like to use both (and throw in the thug rogue archetype to render them frightened when I make them panicked).
Ta da!
prototype00
No. There is no such thing as a 10ft step. Moving 10ft is a move action. Taking a move action will prevent you from using a full attack. If you take a move action you only have a standard action (and a swift, which is unimportant for this) remaining.
As a standard action you only ever get to make a single attack.
It is really feat heavy but you could go the route of Moonlight Stalker Feint in order to get a swift action feint against a target that you have concealment against (invisible blade). But that requires you to have darkvision, blind-fight, combat expertise, and Moonlight Stalker in order to achieve. Even then it is only for the next attack unless you have greater feint.
Nope. (I actually have been looking for a way to take two five foot steps, quickrunner shirt lets you do it once per day, but that is not going to be enough).
Seriously, shatter defense, hit once, intimidate as a free action (enforcer feat), they are shaken (and also flat footed due to shatter defenses), sap master triggers! Thats how you get your TWF with sap master going round after round.
prototype00
It is really feat heavy but you could go the route of Moonlight Stalker Feint in order to get a swift action feint against a target that you have concealment against (invisible blade). But that requires you to have darkvision, blind-fight, combat expertise, and Moonlight Stalker in order to achieve. Even then it is only for the next attack unless you have greater feint.
You just need two levels in lore warden fighter first. You'll have the extra feats to pick up what you need and get combat expertise for free.
So...
Sap Adept
Sap Master
Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Two Weapon Fighting (Greater is a waste, don't take it)
Enforcer
Weapon Focus
Dazzling Display
Shatter Defenses
In order to obtain all the feats at as reasonable (before level 10) it looks like you would probably need a fighter dip for the bonus feats?
Well, when you put it like that... Yep, more or less. Or ranger is another choice. Rogues also can get combat feats via rogue talents.
prototype00
Well, when you put it like that... Yep, more or less. Or ranger is another choice. Rogues also can get combat feats via rogue talents.
prototype00
Ranger Dip for two weapon fighting would be a good way to go low dex and high strength for extra damage output. Mithral breastplate for AC.
The Rogue talent that allows you to select a Combat Feat can only be taken once. So it helps...but isn't enough on it's own.