Bard, Cleric, or Paladin?


Advice


I was recently invited to a play pathfinder with some friends. The current party consists of a fighter, barbarian, rogue, and sorcerer. I noticed they need some type of support. I don't know anyone but the DM in the group and when I told her I would play support she hinted that was a good idea. There are a few problems though.

1) Core rule book only.
2) I don't know what type of characters they are playing (I.E. I don't know what kind of magic the sorc is using)
3) We are rolling stats and the stats I rolled were:
12,14,9,13,17,13 not too bad actually.
4)I don't know anything about the campaign setting.

I kind of want to play a cleric of erastil with this stat setup

Animal and community domain
13 str
16 dex (+2 human bonus)
12 con
9 int
17 wis
13 chr

Feats
1)Point blank shot
Human) Precise Shot

That is what I'm thinking so far. But, I've only played PFS. I'm used to having a lot more available to me. Paladin and Bard might also be good ideas. I've never played a paladin before but I could see it fitting well but I don't know their alignments. Bard would be a lot of fun to play but then there is no healing. It might be nice to have someone who can run all the knowledge checks. Any advice would be appreciated.


I think I would go with you initial thought. An Archer Cleric looks a good option. Core rule book contains everything you need, and you will be a useful/powerful character. On top of this he/she could be fun to play. Personally I like clerics and enjoy playing them.

With any class with know all the spells on there spell list I always pick up Scribe scroll at some point. It is possible to just leave slots open and prepare the utility spell you just found you need, but I prefer to make scrolls


Considering the fact nobody in the party can heal for $#!t, Cleric is the only real option. I'd go Desna for luck and travel and shoot with the crossbow


Considering you are stuck with those stats and you can't re-array them around, the Cleric is your best bet.

Your party is really good in terms of offensive capabilities, and any skills your party needs, the Sorcerer and Rogue have covered. Anything they are missing on, the Cleric can help/vouch for.

The only lacking part about this party is healing, buffing, and recuperation. And the Cleric does a great job at this.

Another possible means of support could be with a Druid as well, given their casting statistic is also Wisdom.

Keep in mind that as a Cleric, you might want to increase your Charisma modifier with your channeling capabilities, as well as the Selective Channeling feat, so you don't end up healing the bad guys with your channeling.


What about bumping Str and going with a reach weapon? This allows you to support the tank in multiple ways by being 5' to the side and back. You are in range for heals, you threaten, you can aid another for ATK or DEF, etc. If you go with something with trip you add an additional element, throw in combat expertise and improved trip not only do you get the trip benefit but can squeak in another point to AC as needed. Just my 2 copper pennies.


Unless you have absolute trust that the GM will not use certain kinds of encounters the cleric and healing patron witch are the only classes that can fill the healer role alone.

There are some ways two characters neither of whom is a cleric or healing patron witch can share the healer role, but one of them has to be an oracle.

Without the APG there is no substitute for a cleric. The alternative is to not be able to handle ability drain or negative levels or blindness or deafness in a timely fashion (Paladins get all the critical stuff except remove disease, which they can get from a mercy. Unfortunately they get remove blindness/deafness at level 10 instead of level 5 and restoration at level 13 instead of level 7. They never get to raise the dead without feats from Ultimate Magic. Druids never get remove blindness/deafness or Restoration.)

Basically, if you don't play a cleric there are a bunch of conditions you can't deal with until the sorcerer learns Limited Wish, which won't be before level 14 and since it's an expensive spell he'll probably want something he can actually cast first and won't learn it until level 15.


Hands down cleric. Is guided hand core? If it were that would b awesome but I don't think it is.


Renegadeshepherd wrote:
Hands down cleric. Is guided hand core? If it were that would b awesome but I don't think it is.

It's not :(

I think I'm going to stick with the Cleric of Erastil build I posted in the first post. My only real problem is do I take Scribe scroll at lvl 1 or at lvl 3? I know I'll need it at some point but the rest of the party just turned level 3 and the GM said I would be on fast leveling until I catch up to them. I might just wait until lvl 3 to get it.

I thought about selective channel but I don't want to sell myself as a healbot. Last time I took selective channel the party took that as me wanting to heal every round possible.


You shouldn't need scribe scroll if you leave slots open and you will need archery feats to do useful damage. At the extreme you load up solely on an instance or two each of divine favor, protection from evil, divine power, breath of life, and heal and leave all your other slots (including every single level 2 or 3 slot where lesser restoration and the remove spells reside) open to prepare anything on 15 minutes notice. If you're expecting trouble you preload partially as appropriate. You can't spontaneously cure from an open slot, but that's not your job. You aren't socialized medicine or an HMO. You're here to be catastrophic insurance only. If they can't stay standing without cures they can reroll as more durable builds.

On that note if you want to be an archer you probably should swap dex and wis. 14 base wisdom should be adequate if you avoid casting offensive spells and you're going to want your attack bonus high enough to use deadly aim against reasonable opponents. It'll also shore up your weakest save.

Worst case the sorcerer has a lower opportunity cost on scribe scroll (or craft wand) since there aren't many important CRB caster feats. He can scribe scrolls or craft wands using your spells.

Silver Crusade

Hands down that group needs a Cleric. I suggest either an archery-oriented Cleric or a melee Cleric. You have stats for either or both. You can even be a switch hitter: some rounds you do archery, other rounds you cast a spell and inflict martial damage with AoOs from your longspear.


So we started and everything is going well but now I have another question. I only get 2 skills per level. Do I want to invest in the same skills over and over or spread them out? I've never really played a higher level character since I'm new to pathfinder and I am not sure if should be pointing my skill points in same 3-4 skills each level or if I want to put points into a little bit of everything.


TheStinkyDiver wrote:
So we started and everything is going well but now I have another question. I only get 2 skills per level. Do I want to invest in the same skills over and over or spread them out? I've never really played a higher level character since I'm new to pathfinder and I am not sure if should be pointing my skill points in same 3-4 skills each level or if I want to put points into a little bit of everything.

One of the biggest problems dumping Intelligence is that you lack majorly in the Skills department. Trying to be both the Face and the Combat Cleric is a very taxing job, and with a dumped int, is sure to be challenging without items to help.

Maxing out your 2 Skills (I'd assume Knowledge [Religion] and Heal are the skills you're taking) is going to be your best bet, since the only other method of obtaining skills is by increasing your Intelligence via Headbands, due that it is a Core-Only Game. Anything your character can't cover for, the Intelligence Headbands most certainly can.

If you had 3 or more Skill Points, I'd say keep that extra Skill Point as your "divvying" up between the less required skills, such as Climb/Swim. But such is the sacrifice of lowering Intelligence for a class that is somewhat dependant on it.


I would either max out 2 skills that benefit from a good check, maybe diplomacy and sense motive, or play a bard instead.

A bard could still be an archer and while you won't be any good at healing in combat, out of combat with a wand of cure light wounds you can do the job. You get a whole bunch of skill points and bards have lots of good powers.

Clerics are a good choice too, but it really depends on what you want to focus on, clerics get more powerful spells and channeling, but bards are crazy skilled and inspire courage will be insane with your party setup


You won't be inspiring anyone if the whole party is dead...


Gregory Connolly wrote:

I would either max out 2 skills that benefit from a good check, maybe diplomacy and sense motive, or play a bard instead.

A bard could still be an archer and while you won't be any good at healing in combat, out of combat with a wand of cure light wounds you can do the job. You get a whole bunch of skill points and bards have lots of good powers.

Clerics are a good choice too, but it really depends on what you want to focus on, clerics get more powerful spells and channeling, but bards are crazy skilled and inspire courage will be insane with your party setup

I think Atarlost said it best up above: Clerics fill a needed role beyond simply Cure spells. Between Lesser Restoration, Raise Dead, Heal (to name a few), you won't be able to cover all the bases unless you went full divine caster.

Deyvantius wrote:
You won't be inspiring anyone if the whole party is dead...

Some could argue that the best defense is a good offense... but I digress.

At OP: Archer Cleric! Archer Cleric! Archer Cleric! Do it! I was thinking of something along the same lines myself, but I wouldn't go Community or Animal domain. I'd argue Law is a better domain, with the ability to guarantee that 11 roll every time you need it. Animal gives you control over animals (blegh!) and eventually an animal companion (3 levels too late...), so if I had to trade away one domain, it'd be that. Unfortunately, since you mentioned being limited to Core-only, that restricts access to great sub-domains like Feather and Growth :-/ so Community may not be that bad.


I'd say that Craft Wands is better than Scribe Scroll in the long run though I'll echo the sentiment that maybe somebody else should pay that feat tax if you're trying to focus on archery.

Since your animal companion will be a little weak (-3 levels) maybe it could serve better as a mount than going directly into melee. Being able to move around and still cast spells or full attack with your bow can be nice.

Spiritual Weapon and Summon Monster spells can be nice for a healer since they give you a way to make attacks even when you spend your turn buffing or healing people.

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