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I currently play, among other things, a wizard in pathfinder society. In my area, there aren't many other wizards and the magi in the area only have one or two levels in the class. As such, I do not have the ability to exchange spells with PCs that much and most of the spells I have, I have obtained from scrolls in Chronicle sheets.
The GMs in my area had informed me that I could not purchase spells from NPCs to scribe into my spellbook and that if I wanted more spells I had to first purchase the scroll and then pay for the ink to scribe the spell. For example, if I wanted to have Alarm (1st level Abjuration spell), I would have to purchase the scroll for 25gp and then pay an additional 10gp for the ink to scribe it in my spell book--incidentally destroying the scroll in the process.
I have been neglectful in reading the FAQ or else I would have found the one FAQ that states:
Can I scribe spells from another PC's spellbook into my own? What about gaining spells via scrolls found during an adventure?
Players are welcome to exchange spells with each other during an adventure. They must still follow all the normal rules as put forth in the Core Rulebook and their class descriptions (for instance, an alchemist can scribe from a wizard, but not vice-versa) and they must not bog the session down.Similarly, scrolls found during an adventure can be used to add spells to spellbooks and similar class features (such as a witch's familiar), using the normal rules for doing so. Scrolls used in this way during an adventure do not need to be purchased, but are still consumed as normal.
With either method, the GM should sign off on the spells gained (after witnessing successful skill checks) on affected players' chronicle sheets. All other methods of gaining new spells (such as by gaining a level or purchasing access to an NPC's spellbook) function as described in the Core Rulebook and relevant class descriptions.
In the rare instance of a wizard charging a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks, this fee is equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells do not change the fee in PFS.
Now, it would appear that a wizard (and technically a magus as well) is allowed to gain access to an NPC's spellbook using the rules from the Core. However, I am confused by the last paragraph.
What does it mean by in the rare instance of a wizard charging a fee for the privilege of copying spells? Is that not the norm? Or could I walk up to say, Aram Zey and ask him nicely to look through his spells and simply pay the cost of the inks?
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That phrase, "In the rare instance" is supposed to be changed to "To access an NPC Wizard's spellbook, you would pay half the scribing cost for the spell involved."
That would still leave the entire paragraph unclear.
I've always assumed that you could buy spell access in society play.
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That phrase, "In the rare instance" is supposed to be changed to "To access an NPC Wizard's spellbook, you would pay half the scribing cost for the spell involved."That would still leave the entire paragraph unclear.
I've always assumed that you could buy spell access in society play.
I'm sorry, I really don't see anything unclear in that paragraph.
When purchasing access to a spell from an NPC <Wizard/Magus/Etc.>, for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks, this fee is equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells do not change the fee in PFS.
So, 1st level spell:
Scribing cost: 10 gp, access from an NPC: 5 gpYou would save 5 gp if you were to scribe it from a PC's spellbook.
Scribing cost: Spell level squared tiumes 10 gp.
NPC access cost: Spell level squared times 5 gp.
The costs are crystal clear. The question: Can you pay gold to get any relevant spell, or do you need to negotiate with a GM in-game?
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The costs are crystal clear. The question: Can you pay gold to get any relevant spell, or do you need to negotiate with a GM in-game?
You need to notify the GM you are purchasing X spell, and have the source available, just like any other in-game purchase. And, like said purchases, it should be included on the ITS/Chronicle, so it is legal.
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Okay, so basically as long as I have the source the spell is in (i.e. - Advanced Player's Guide if I wanted to purchase Vanish) and I notify the GM who oversees the relevant Spellcraft roll, I can simply pay the scribing cost and the NPC access cost?
Then what is the deal with the FAQ stating "In the rare instance of a wizard charging a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks"? Other than a PC, is there an instance where an NPC would not charge a fee?
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Okay, so basically as long as I have the source the spell is in (i.e. - Advanced Player's Guide if I wanted to purchase Vanish) and I notify the GM who oversees the relevant Spellcraft roll, I can simply pay the scribing cost and the NPC access cost?
Then what is the deal with the FAQ stating "In the rare instance of a wizard charging a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks"? Other than a PC, is there an instance where an NPC would not charge a fee?
Thats written for a general campaign, where wizards may not be so eager to let someone they don't know very well handle their entire life's work.
The pathfinder society is something of a special case because you have a collaborative group thats going out of its way to supply its members with more spells.
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Okay, so basically as long as I have the source the spell is in (i.e. - Advanced Player's Guide if I wanted to purchase Vanish) and I notify the GM who oversees the relevant Spellcraft roll, I can simply pay the scribing cost and the NPC access cost?
Then what is the deal with the FAQ stating "In the rare instance of a wizard charging a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks"? Other than a PC, is there an instance where an NPC would not charge a fee?
Thats written for a general campaign, where wizards may not be so eager to let someone they don't know very well handle their entire life's work.
The pathfinder society is something of a special case because you have a collaborative group thats going out of its way to supply its members with more spells.
This is especially true if you are in Absalom, in the Grand Lodge. It should be safe to assume that the resources of the Pathfinder Society there would grant you access to just about any spell. The same nay not be true if you are out on a mission, though.
Of course, to get the spell, you'll need to spend the +50% AND listen to Aram Zey berate you for not already knowing such an all-important spell (or berate you for wanting such a useless spell... He's an equal opportunity pathfinder berater!)
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That's why Teleport is such a great spell IMO.
"Excuse me while I go back to Absalom to purchase this vital item we require so we do not perish," he said to his party members who had all been level drained.
Still though, this clears it up and it makes playing a wizard much better. I was starting to think I went the wrong way and should have been a sorc.
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Another thing. Do these count as purchases that need to be logged in an inventory sheet? If so, I'm going to end up with more inventory sheets than Chronicle sheets.
Yes. I suggest you simply devote one sheet to such purchases (I use one to buy/expend consumables that I use and replace, instead of scratching off the original). You can write the spells together to save lines.
As far as your GMs go, this definitely was not allowed for quite some time, but it's been a year or a bit more since they started allowing it.
This really is a bit unclear... I had to pull teeth to get this kind of spell access in my area, quoting several VCs from this forum to verify my claims. It'd be nice to have this in print in no uncertain terms so others won't have to fight for it.
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@Adam
Take nosig's example. If my wizard wanted another six 5th level spells, that's 6750gp for the scrolls and 1500gp for scribing the spell for a total of 8250. As opposed to getting them from an NPC for 2250.
Also, take into consideration that a wizard can lose his spellbook and therefore his access to his spells, whereas a sorceror cannot. Granted at this level I keep my spellbook safe (Secret Chest).
It still costs resources to scribe a spell, it is just nice that it doesn't cost too much. I think I end up spending as much on scribing spells as a warrior spends on his primary weapon--an appropriate cost IMHO as spells are the wizard's sword/spear/your weapon of choice.
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@The Tea Elf
Overall, I completely agree with you, but I kind of expected that wizard's scroll scribing thing was natural to spend tons of golds on. In fact, it's quite possible to play with only spells that you gain at levels, so I was curious which spells are so valuable to you so I can grab a trick or two for my wizard also. But I am going offtopic a bit now.
In either case, this is one of better topics for me. I'll make reference to our local community about this.
@nosig
You better! Just contact our local VC and to the gaming we go!
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There aren't many spell books in PFS. That being said, you can always just pay for generic access. This does get pricey at higher levels, though. You can't avoid the scribing cost no matter what though. Arcane prepared casters just have to make due with less $$.
See Blessed Book in Ultimate Equipment. It's a large up-front cost, but it pays for itself.
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@The Tea Elf
Overall, I completely agree with you, but I kind of expected that wizard's scroll scribing thing was natural to spend tons of golds on. In fact, it's quite possible to play with only spells that you gain at levels, so I was curious which spells are so valuable to you so I can grab a trick or two for my wizard also. But I am going offtopic a bit now.
In either case, this is one of better topics for me. I'll make reference to our local community about this.
@nosig
You better! Just contact our local VC and to the gaming we go!
I see a wizard's advantage is in her versatility, and there for, the more spell she has access to the stronger the wizard.
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This and the continually refreshing threads on gunsmithing costs has to be 2 of the biggest topics that are constantly brought up in these forums.
Both topics are obviously very confusing to a large amount of people and I think thus require some specialized time in the next guide to organised play (yes above what they already get).
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I currently have a PFS Alchemist and am wanting to copy a spell (Gravity Bow) from a wizard into my formulae list. Obviously the wizard can't copy my formulae into her spellbook.
Am I allowed to pay her (as I would an NPC wizard)? What if i wanted to trade some equipment like a potion? Is that allowed?
You are not allowed to give her money or items to keep.
You can, however, "lend" her an item that she can use during the joint adventure, including a potion. If used by her, it does not need to be replaced.
Actually, as an alchemist, one of the things you should be doing is using the between game time to make all those common consumables, like alch fire, tanglefoot bags, etc., so you can lend them out to your party, for use as needed.
Just think of anti-toxin, anti-plague, vermin repellant, etc. given out before the adventure starts.
And the majority of the party went racing off, leaving the unconscious cleric by the swarm. Oy.
I admit it, I am a softy. That swarm, in that location, with that party, probably should have been a TPK. They are underground, one exit, 40' vertical, slippery surface, and the swarm had a climb speed.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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I currently have a PFS Alchemist and am wanting to copy a spell (Gravity Bow) from a wizard into my formulae list. Obviously the wizard can't copy my formulae into her spellbook.
Am I allowed to pay her (as I would an NPC wizard)? What if i wanted to trade some equipment like a potion? Is that allowed?
Since others are covering the second part of your question, I figured I'd jump in on the first part. Gravity Bow isn't an alchemist formulae, so even if you find a wizard with it you still can't copy it into your book.
A formulae book costs as much as a spellbook.
An alchemist can study a wizard’s spellbook to learn any
formula that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains.
A wizard, however, cannot learn spells from a formula book.
An alchemist does not need to decipher arcane writings
before copying them.
This means it still has to be a legal alchemist formulae in order to copy it. Example: You could get True Strike from a wizard and copy it into your formulae book because it is on the Alchemist formulae list. Gravity Bow is not so you can't. (Unless of course you have found some way I don't know about to add a spell from another list to the Alchemist's list)