Improved Crit question


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Can I take Improved Critical for scimitar and use it on "Flame Blade"? Flame Blade says that it functions as a scimitar so it should right? Also can I use my flame blade with weapon finesse?

Thank you for any input.


Yes. Yes. No. But for the last question try Dervish Dance from the Inner Sea World Guide.


It says it functions like a scimitar, so any feat, ability, or whatever else that affects scimitars will affect your Flame Blade.

But, since scimitars are not finessable, Weapon Finesse would have no impact on a Flame Blade. You'd need to go with Dervish Dance as Avian noted.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Opinions differ on whether a flame blade has a critical threat range of 18-20 or 20. Expect debate.


blahpers wrote:
Opinions differ on whether a flame blade has a critical threat range of 18-20 or 20. Expect debate.

That's a good point. Improved Critical still works, obviously, but whether it becomes 15-20 or 19-20 would still be up in the air.


Hmmm. Interesting question. There's arguments for both sides. I tend toward a base critical of 20.

Silver Crusade

It should be 18-20 right now since it functions as a scimitar.


Flame blade does NOT critical on 18-20. Mythic Magic allows you to increase it to 18-20. Thus, it does not usually function with such a crit range. Also, augmenting it allows you to increase the critical range to 15-20, so improved critical also does not appear to apply.

Flame Blade (Mythic):

Flame Blade (Mythic)

The blade's damage increases to 2d6 points of fire damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum +20). The blade threatens a critical hit on a natural 18–20 as if it were an actual scimitar.

Augmented (3rd): If you expend two uses of mythic power, the blade threatens a critical hit on a natural 15–20, and bypasses hardness, fire resistance, and fire immunity.


Firengineer wrote:
Also, augmenting it allows you to increase the critical range to 15-20, so improved critical also does not appear to apply.

Or augmenting is just an alternative to having the feat. Especially since the augment does a lot of other things on top of that.

Silver Crusade

So why does it say it functions as a scimitar if it doesn't function as a scimitar?


Crusader of Good wrote:
So why does it say it functions as a scimitar if it doesn't function as a scimitar?

It functions as a scimitar in that you must be able to wield one and it qualifies for such feats such as Dervish Dance


It's another one of those cases where the designer thought it was obvious which ways it functions as X when, in fact, it isn't obvious at all. It's a trend.


blahpers wrote:
It's another one of those cases where the designer thought it was obvious which ways it functions as X when, in fact, it isn't obvious at all. It's a trend.

Out of curiosity, are the person who wrote Flame Blade and the person who wrote the mythic augments the same people?


Beats me.

Silver Crusade

Be nice if someone who works here would give us their thoughts and clear this up...

Dark Archive

I'm actually looking for a crit range clarification as well. I am uncertain if the mythic version merely adds more damage and included the crit range to clarify what it is before and after the augmenting, or if it means the basic version is not like a scimitar...


Flame Blade (Mythic)
The blade's damage increases to 2d6 points of fire damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum +20). The blade threatens a critical hit on a natural 18–20 as if it were an actual scimitar.

Augmented (3rd): If you expend two uses of mythic power, the blade threatens a critical hit on a natural 15–20, and bypasses hardness, fire resistance, and fire immunity.

Emphasis mine. I'd say by reading this that the normal version of the spell criticals on a 20. The mythic version adds more of the scimitar's characteristics to it, including the increased threat range.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Also note that the Magic chapter notes that touch spells (which flame blade technically isn't, though attacks made with it are melee touch attacks, but neither is it a ray and those are the only two types of spell that actually critical) critical on a natural 20 for x2.

The spell says that you wield it as a scimitar, not that it has stats like one, so I'm completely comfortable with the 20/x2 critical info.

Grand Lodge

Crusader of Good wrote:
So why does it say it functions as a scimitar if it doesn't function as a scimitar?

For ease of rules handling. They do a lot of that sort of thing to reduce page count.


Ipslore the Red wrote:
blahpers wrote:
It's another one of those cases where the designer thought it was obvious which ways it functions as X when, in fact, it isn't obvious at all. It's a trend.
Out of curiosity, are the person who wrote Flame Blade and the person who wrote the mythic augments the same people?

No. There's no way it's the same person.

I say the critical range is 18-20, just like a scimitar, since it says it is wielded "as if it were scimitar" that should include all the pluses and minuses except where otherwise noted (and it then notes the differences).

And yeah, it means that aspect of the Mythic ability does nothing. It's far from the first thing in D&D that does zip. We've seen lots of stuff like that before, invented by people that didn't realize things already worked that way.

LazarX wrote:
Crusader of Good wrote:
So why does it say it functions as a scimitar if it doesn't function as a scimitar?
For ease of rules handling. They do a lot of that sort of thing to reduce page count.

I'm pretty darn sure the original intent when it was written was for it to have the crit range of a scimitar. Pretty sure that's how people, including the developers treated it then too.

Granted, sometimes PF devs change the "intent" of rules they copied from 3.5 without letting anyone know.


Sometimes I wish spells would just come with a weapon statline with out all the fluff.


fretgod99 wrote:

It says it functions like a scimitar, so any feat, ability, or whatever else that affects scimitars will affect your Flame Blade.

But, since scimitars are not finessable, Weapon Finesse would have no impact on a Flame Blade. You'd need to go with Dervish Dance as Avian noted.

Weapon finesse works on all touch spells, right? So, it should work for flame blade.

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