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Hey guys. First off, I'm not completely new to Pathfinder. I used to play with friends every once in a while, but only as a player, so I basically only knew enough to play. We we fell out of the habit of playing a few years ago. I think everyone would be down with starting up again, but not GMing, so it would fall to me.
I've always flirted with the idea of GMing a variety of different games, but I always get overwhelmed with all the information and peter out in the middle of the rule book. I think the problem is I know a bit already, and reading what you already know can get boring.
Now I'm interested in Pathfinder again because I know everyone loves the system, and I'm really interested in Golarion. When we used to play our GM used his own setting, but I'd like to use Golarion. I've got access to the Core Rulebook, the Advanced Players Guide, the GM's Guide, and I'm getting the Inner Sea World Guide. All together that's over 1000 dual column pages of information. It's so much! If you've read to the bottom of this needlessly long post, do you have any advice for someone in my situation? Either way, thanks!
P.S. My first idea was a high-seas, pirate style game, so any advice on that would be awesome too. Again, thanks!
Don't. Nothing is wrong with sticking with the core rulebook and working your way up.
One more tidbit, I'll only have two players. I know most stuff is written assuming 4 PCs. Any tips on that? Maybe have them run two characters? We've never been real big on that because it's harder to get into character and make a fleshed out PC, but I guess beggars can't be choosers.
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My preparation really depends on what kind of adventure I plan to run. A sandbox adventure is tough because you can't completely anticipate what your players will choose, so you have to prepare for any eventuality.
I usually prepare a flowchart of information that contains page references to important information about the settings, history, etc.
I use Kyle Olson's combat manager to run the game which makes it easy to look up a spell reference or item reference.
To run NPCs, I choose one overall quality that I think of as my touchstone for that character. It might be a mannerism, a figure of speech, and so on. I note it in my adventure so that if the players go back to that NPC far in the future, I will be able to remember how I played it.
If you are going to develop your own adventures from scratch, you might want to try something like Realm Works from Lone Wolf (Hero Lab). It can help you organize information and find it quickly.
It's unlikely that you can memorize everything that could come up, so the key is to be organized and to have a system.
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I would recommend using an Adventure Path. Skull and Shackles is a pirate-theme AP that is a lot of fun for both the players and GM (I'm doing both at the moment via Play by Post). That way you only need to know what may come up, not absolutely Everything.
If you can't do that, don't think you have to know everything to GM. I'm going to be starting my first live-table GM experience in a couple months, and I am far from knowing everything. There is a lot of good advice on these boards from experienced GM's if you want to give it a search. If you can't find an answer, I've never found these boards lacking when new GM's call for help (myself included).
When I started DM'ing, I went lazy mode and downloaded a 'read it to me' program. Copy and pasted the pdf module into the program, sat back, and listened.
One more tidbit, I'll only have two players. I know most stuff is written assuming 4 PCs. Any tips on that? Maybe have them run two characters? We've never been real big on that because it's harder to get into character and make a fleshed out PC, but I guess beggars can't be choosers.
Two characters each will likely take some of the fun out of it for the players by complicating the game for them and, as you said, distract them from their main characters.
Since you are already assumed to be running more than one character in the form of all of the NPCs, it's probably better for you to send one or two NPCs to help them out. You don't need to run them in great detail, especially at first. It is, after all, the PCs' show. But they might help through buffs and healing, or whatever else your players do not want to deal with.
If that is too daunting for your first real time out, an alternative would be to either make a few extra magic items available to the two PCs, or to dumb down the encounters by reducing the number of enemies/dumbing down the enemies, or a combination of both.
That leads me back to your original question, in that, whichever way you decide to go will likely require a fair amount of prep from you. And that is really a good thing. As Malwing implied, there is nothing wrong with sticking with the basics at first. But becoming a good GM is something that happens in the doing. So go ahead and do it, and don't worry about mistakes or missing a rule here or there. You will learn and get better as you go.
^ Choon has the AP for you.
The easiest way to get into GMing Pathfinder is through the Adventure Paths. The writers do a great job of not only presenting the adventures, but also giving the GM the in-game tools needed to run them.
Your job is then to prepare scenarios for your players and develop contingency plans when they go off-rail. (Which is OK, too.)
As to the 2 players conundrum, that is difficult. Maybe grant them the Leadership feat and start the main PCs at 3rd, their cohorts at 1st as the game starts? Allow them to recruit others along the way to their task, and engage the players in this kind of plot development. ooh, a rejected follower returns as a minor baddie...
One more tidbit, I'll only have two players. I know most stuff is written assuming 4 PCs. Any tips on that? Maybe have them run two characters? We've never been real big on that because it's harder to get into character and make a fleshed out PC, but I guess beggars can't be choosers.
We have only two players too. One problem we had was the tendency to think of them as statblocks rather than characters (since running two PCs is lots of paperwork, it's easy to get bogged down in doing that and less so in the actual playing of the game).
Our solution (which is working okay) is to have one 'main' character each (built with a higher pointbuy and one extra level, in our case) and one henchman character. That way the henchmen tend to automatically drift into the background and there's fewer "who said that?" moments, since the default everyone falls into is to roleplay their principal PC. We find that in tactical situations, the henchmen dont innovate that much either, so the battle tends to stay focussed on the two primary protagonists.
High Seas Pirate type game?
Run the Skull & Shackles AP.
Running an AP is a great way to learn the ecology of whole campaigns in Pathfinder.
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There is nothing wrong with keeping it simple.
Run an AP? Sure. But why not try the Beginner's Box?
Whichever you choose, start at level 1. Sounds silly, I know...there's a guy on here that started his game at level 11 and he was having fits. Duh.
If you have 2 players, then you have 2 PC's. No more. Suggest classes with a familiar or an animal companion. Pathfinder Organized Play bans the Leadership feat, maybe you should too. Just to get started. And no GM played PC's. Too much work, and potentially spotlight-stealing. A few helpers, sure, but none that tag along. Think "re-occurring."
Again, keep it simple. There are other ways to power up the PC's. Give your PC's free stuff...not too much, and especially not free magic stuff. Let the PC's use a higher point buy, or let them roll for stats. Then, when you create BBEG's, use a lower point total.
What do your players want to play? If your 2 PC's are devout militant agents of the church, will they want to be on the high seas? Just a thought.
People learn best by doing. I suggest running one of the intro adventures as a 'get more familiar' time investment.
Crypt of the Everflame, Master of the Fallen Fortress are standalone examples.
Expect to make mistakes and have to look things up. It's normal, don't feel bad when you have to. Once you run one or two(like mentioned above) investing in a full AP is less of a 'risk' as far as being able to finish.
Wow, I'm blown away by both the quantity and the quality of the responses here, thank you! I think the advice here has been solid, I have a tendency to think I need to know EVERYTHING, when I know that's not the case. I'll definitely be bookmarking this tread and referencing it. I'll be looking into this Skulls and Shackles AP too.
Also, Mapleswitch's suggestion of a 'read it to me' program could be great. I can wear headphones at work, so if I can figure out how to do that on my phone it could be awesome.
Start simple: set aside the APG and the "rules" parts of Gamemastery Guide and just use the Core Rules to start. Similarly, Inner Sea World Guide is great stuff -- but start with a published module so you only have to worry about knowing one tiny piece of the world.
And, yes, Adventure Paths are awesome, but play through a module first so you and your players can fumble through the rules without worrying about "screwing up" a major time investment. After you've made it through a module in one piece, pick 2 or 3 APs that look most interesting to you, and offer your players a choice. (Or, if there's just one, do it -- Skull & Shackles would be your "high seas" go-to, though I had one player in my group who said it "didn't feel like DnD" to him.) Pick up the first 2 books of your chosen Path and jump in!
And, most importantly, don't be afraid to jump in and learn as you go along.
Heya, Skull and Shackles should really be the AP you use. I work full time and don't have as much time as I used to to learn the complete history for everything, but using the APs is a great way to learn just what you need to know...:)
Wow, I'm blown away by both the quantity and the quality of the responses here, thank you! I think the advice here has been solid, I have a tendency to think I need to know EVERYTHING, when I know that's not the case. I'll definitely be bookmarking this tread and referencing it. I'll be looking into this Skulls and Shackles AP too.
Also, Mapleswitch's suggestion of a 'read it to me' program could be great. I can wear headphones at work, so if I can figure out how to do that on my phone it could be awesome.
Concentrating on the first few encounters in a module or AP helps. Focus on what you need for those (which monsters, which skills, basic combat or diplomacy or whatever). For example, no need to know rules for poisons unless and until it turns up in your encounters.
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One more tidbit, I'll only have two players. I know most stuff is written assuming 4 PCs. Any tips on that? Maybe have them run two characters? We've never been real big on that because it's harder to get into character and make a fleshed out PC, but I guess beggars can't be choosers.
The CR system is built assuming 4 PCs.
When you have 1 monster the CR is X, 2 monsters is CR+2, 3 is CR+3, and 4 is CR+4.So, what this means is a standard encounter for your party of 2 is 2 levels lower than a standard encounter for a party of 4.
This hasn't failed me yet:
I tend to use this for building encounters these days. The players never run into an encounter with a single monster in it unless it is a boss monster, and even then I have found throwing a single CR+3 monster at a party of 4 people is easier than 4 CR (APL-1) monsters. These are set for each individual player, so things are just additive per player. You can also mix and match the below so long as it is within the same parameter (If there are 4 players you can have 1 (APL-1), 2 (APL-3), 3 (APL-4), and 4 (APL-5) monsters to form one encounter, but NOTE: the lower the CR of the monster the more it needs to focus on using its CMB for everything, so pick monsters with high CMBs [The undead Owl-bears, CR2, have around +12 to grapple] or monsters who focus on using magic for everything so long as it is effective [Magic Missle always hits unless the target has the Shield Spell, CL 1 Magic Missle averages 3.5 due to the +1, in multiplicity this becomes 4[14], 8[28], 12[42], and 16[56] average damage in 1 round, so never underestimate the power of 16 level 1 wizards/sorcs. It doesn't matter if they die in 1 hit, NPCs should be damage focused not suitability focused anyway.
The real power of the 4x[(APL-8) to (APL-5)] elements are when they are used as traps--possibly compound traps that activate EVERYTHING. Pit traps that are set to not fall for the first 3 on the way down a dungeon and then all of them activate when the last trap activates tends to hit the entire party if they are in line formation. Anyone who fell in is now stuck fighting up against the enemies who were watching the party and now are attacking them from outside the pit.
Be aware that you should always mix things up, send neither continual commando squads 4x(APL-1), nor hordes 16x(APL-8), nor mix and matches, but mix it up by using all of them so the party cannot adapt to just that one thing. Also, do use compound traps such as rope bridges that dump the party into bear traps, rooms that have one or two pillars of 1,000 arrows, but are also filled with hidden beartraps that are pinned to the ground.
4 monsters per player (4 players = 16 monsters)
CR (APL-8), CR (APL-7), CR (APL-6), or CR (APL-5) monsters (Standard), (Difficult), (Hard), (Epic)3 monsters per player (4 players = 12 monsters)
CR (APL-7), CR (APL-6), CR (APL-5), or CR (APL-4) monsters (Standard), (Difficult), (Hard), (Epic)2 monsters per player (4 players = 8 monsters)
CR (APL-6), CR (APL-5), CR (APL-4), or CR (APL-3) monsters (Standard), (Difficult), (Hard), (Epic)1 monster per player (4 players = 4 monsters)
CR (APL-4), CR (APL-3), CR (APL-2), or CR (APL-1) monsters (Standard), (Difficult), (Hard), (Epic)
Just plug your APL (add up your PC's levels, divide by number of PCs = APL) and do the subtraction.
Ignore 0, so CR 1 - 1 = CR 1/2, then 1/3, then 1/4 and so forth.Just to say in a scenario I tested this in my group of 4 players loved the encounter with 16 bats. Ironically it was the most damaging encounter of the entire scenario since the bats had +6 to hit, but could only do 1 damage.
I'd recommend getting yourself a copy of the Core Rulebook and starting just with a core game, to allow yourself and your players to get up to speed with the core rules of the game.
I would also recommend that you run a simple introductory adventure, mainly to let you get your feet wet running a game. A wonderful place to start would be the free mini-module Master of the Fallen Fortress. Once you've gotten the mechanics down, you can move up to an AP like Skull & Shackles and re-start.
(Note that the pregenerated characters in the above module are all classes from the Advanced Players Guide, as this module was a tie-in to the launch of that book.)
Pretty solid advice throughout this thread. I would definitely start with something small and easy, get comfortable quickly, then tackle something more complex.
Master of the Fallen Fortress is a good starter module (and it's free). Just use the Core Rulebook stuff (which your players can access through the PRD and I'd bet you'll all be ready to expand your options (i.e., Advanced Player Guide) and run through a module/AP before you know it.
I would prepare a couple of generic encounters is case the players derail the plot - perhaps a band of low-level pirates or lizard folk - to buy you time.
Create new generic encounters as the characters advances in level. In time you will have a nice little library of encounters to recycle.
Also, keep a prepared list of npcs names handy.
This should help you maintain the illusion of being in control of the story.
As for balancing a small party, throw in some extra loot and bonus encounters to get the characters ahead of the xp curve.
If you're ever not sure what the rules for something are, roll a d20 and add whatever modifiers seem relevant.
I would third the "Master of the Fallen Fortress" suggestion as a free introductory adventure. I ran it for the first time this past Sunday; easily playable in 4-4.5 hours (even with some dawdling). A fun little tower-crawl.
I would second the recommendation for the "Beginner Boxed Set" as another potential starting point. It's:
a) relatively inexpensive (especially lightly used copies);
b) contains some very helpful DM tools (a dry-erase battlemat and standees for PCs and a variety of common monsters) that will be helpful even after moving on to full Pathfinder; and,
c) comes with starter adventures that can jump-start a campaign, and are a little loot/magic item heavy (which could compensate for having only 2 PCS).
Consider investing in the Pathfinder DM screen. It has some very helpful charts readily accessible (the one chart I wish it had is the "action types / provoke attacks of opportunity?" table).
Finally, the DM's best friend: +2 or -2 circumstance modifier. If the player does something clever / foolish that you're not quite sure how to account for, a circumstance modifier to an appropriate check is often your friend.
Thanks again for all the great advice. It was really helpful. I may have to go over that Chalenge Rating stuff a couple times, but I'll get it. I'll also be checking out Master of the Fallen Fortress, thanks for the suggestions!
Thanks again for all the great advice. It was really helpful. I may have to go over that Chalenge Rating stuff a couple times, but I'll get it. I'll also be checking out Master of the Fallen Fortress, thanks for the suggestions!
I would definitely put the CR math in the "Advanced GMing" category! Don't tie up you're time with it up front, just know that it's there for you when you're ready to start tweaking the math.
My recommendation for dealing with the only-two-players issue would be to try to find another player or two. :) Do any of you have girl/boyfriend/spouses, siblings, co-workers, classmates who are into geeky stuff? Start recruiting. (This is another good reason to start with a module or two before jumping an AP - you're asking new fills to try it with you for an afternoon, rather than forever.) Thinking long term, growing your group is the best time investment you can make.
Really... there isn't all that much you HAVE to know. Get a good understanding of how characters function. Go through the combat chapter and try to build a few characters accordingly. Ignore everything that is relatively isolated, such as combat maneuvers, at first. See if you can playtest a combat in general. When that works decently for you, try fighting a monster or two (starting with monsters at CR 1 at first), to try to get a feel for how monster special abilities work. Each time you find a new rules term, look it up. Honestly, it won't take you long to work this out. Add stuff as you get to it. You don't need to know about lvl 2-9 spells at the outset, for example. While the Core Rulebook can be intimidating, you don't need much of it to play the game. I would also recommend using the pfsrd, because it collects tons of data in a slightly more useful and intuitive format than the books do. Especially for looking things up, you'll find it priceless.
My advice for two players is this: First make sure one plays a full divine caster, or a Pally (if pally the other should be caster of some sort for ballance which becomes quite important later on). Consider allowing one leadership feat (only one is likely to have a good cha anywho). Be gernerous with items. Finnaly remember they count as APL-1 for CR purposes.
EDIT - Also if full divine caster make sure he/she has some martial ability as that was a part of why I suggested it.
Don't expect to know everything when you first start. Start very simple, with a pretty straight forward adventure. I use a combination of a tablet and printed-out notes to run my adventures, seems to work well.
Probably the most important thing is the player's expectations. Make sure that the two of them and you are on the same page as far as the general feel of the campaign world.
With only 2 players I would make the combat encounters much easier, minimize the number of magic-wielding enemies (or at least, make sure the magic just deals straight damage, spells that removed players from combat entirely like sleep could potentially be a total party kill).
Use more RP and skills encounters - with only two players, it should be pretty obvious that they can't simply run into the thick of things and cut down dozens of enemies.