Best Necromancer is????


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


So, for a villian in a game I am setitng up, I am creating a necromancer (as in the role not the actual class). I was just curious as to what would make the best necromancer? The Gravewalker witch, the Bones Oracle, clerics, and necromancer wizards are the obvious contenders, but I noticed that Summoners could be flavored as necromancers (get the feat that lets you use summon monster to summon skeletal creatures and make your eidolon like a undead monstrosity) and that alchemists could make as necromancers as well. I am trying to make a fairly powerful villian (seeing as 3 of the guys in the group are hardcore optomizers) so I was wondering where to start?


Don't know much about Summoner Necromancers but Cleric seems the most obvious choice. Decent armor, HP and melee skills, pretty good offensive spells and buffs and most importantly channel energy to heal all those minions!


Generally speaking clerics are the 'best' necromancers, in the sense that they can control with rebuke, have early access to many undead creation spells, have access to negative energy spells to heal undead with, and so forth. They also make fairly decent BBEGs with good will and fortitiude saves, lots of spell access, and good defenses overall.

Witchs tend to struggle agaisnt a party, since most of their abilities are debuffing rather than outright offensive (and require a standard action), while oracles play in most circumstances as weaker clerics.

I'd go with a cleric.


The summoner Necromancer comes from the feat Skeletal Summoner that allows you to put the skeleton template on summons. Additionally, your Eidolon can gain the Undead evo thing that lets it act like an undead.

Liberty's Edge

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Divine casters are going to be the best minion focused necromancers. Arcane necromancers have more to do than just make minions, but still do the minion thing well. Up to you which the "best" really is.


I was looking at the "create a million minions" necromancer type (typical BBEG trope)


Drive your players nuts, make a -master- summoner and use the feat you mentioned (provided it works on the ordinary summon monster spell).

The cleric though would be quite powerful if you cast desecrate in an area with an altar (I think it's desecrate that empowers undead further). You could probably make him a worse thing to contend with by making him a juju zombie, grave knight or worm that walks (I think that's what the template is called).

EDIT: Actually, you probably don't have to worry about the 'minions' aspect since if I'm correct, he can simply make more minions than he can control. They'd still be a danger to any living thing passing by without actually attacking his CONTROLLED undead.


Oooh, nice. A few spells are particularly effective on non-intelligent undead, so this can work like a charm. If you want to tie into this, have the loot include a near empty sack with several dozen onyx stones :D .


The old Juju oracle is hands down the best Necromancer for their 6 per Caster Level control cap on Animate Dead, their ability to raise mindless undead as Neutral and intelligent undead as their alignment. Furthermore, they get access to Juju Zombies which is an incredible template to be applied to specialized corpses.

After that, I'd give the award for best necromancer to the Gravewalker Witch, who gets both Command Undead and Animate Dead on one list at that their earliest spell levels to boot. Add in another control pool from Bonewhistle and the incredibly powerful Possess Undead make it a shoe in.


As a player I prefer arcane necromancers because they have blood money and I hate spending a lot of money on consumables. For a BBEG that has whatever money you want, a cleric for the desecrate, channel, and extra holding potential seems the way to go.

I haven't read the old Juju.


If you want to have tons upon tons of minions, no-one does zombies as well as a Juju Oracle. Spirit Vessels just can't be beat.

Liberty's Edge

Good grief, yes. Though undead lord can give you a run for your money in terms of actually being able to heal the undead mid-fight. (And themselves).
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/paizo---cler ic-archetypes/undead-lord


Noireve wrote:
The summoner Necromancer comes from the feat Skeletal Summoner that allows you to put the skeleton template on summons. Additionally, your Eidolon can gain the Undead evo thing that lets it act like an undead.

Skeletal summoner only works once though, so its not the most dependable. Summoner can work great if you just want to make a guy with a single undead minion though.

I like bones oracle or clerics the best. Durable and they get command undead on a secondary(primary if oracle) stat.

Since your creating a villain you have a lot of fiat at your disposal. Really any could work. At worst a pounce eidolon or a slumber focused witch might be a bit much.


MrSin wrote:


Skeletal summoner only works once though, so its not the most dependable. Summoner can work great if you just want to make a guy with a single undead minion though.

I'm not sure how to link specifically to an archetype on a page, so here's a page of archetypes for summoners, look up master summoner:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcastingClassOptions/s ummoner.html

With the master summoner, you can consecutively cast up to 5+cha modifier of summon monster provided your eidolon isn't summoned. With a decent charisma score and skeletal summoner, he can probably cast 8 summon monster II to get 8d3 skeletons, or if he's got access to summon monster IV, 8d3 skeletal champions. If he's got access to at least summon monster III, he can summon 8d4+8 skeletons and with access to summon monster V (a bit higher up in level, though I don't know the level of the necromancer) he can summon up to 8d4+8 skeletal champions. Add in his lackey, the evil cleric, and now they've got a healer on their side. Alternatively, throw in a bunch of low levelled master summoner troops who are there to aid their master, the undead lord cleric who can cast a stronger version channel negative energy to heal their undead (in addition to having his own undead).


cmastah wrote:
With the master summoner, you can consecutively cast up to 5+cha modifier of summon monster provided your eidolon isn't summoned. With a decent charisma score and skeletal summoner, he can probably cast 8 summon monster II to get 8d3 skeletons, or if he's got access to summon monster IV, 8d3 skeletal champions. If he's got access to at least summon monster III, he can summon 8d4+8 skeletons and with access to summon monster V (a bit higher up in level, though I don't know the level of the necromancer) he can summon up to 8d4+8 skeletal champions. Add in his lackey, the evil cleric, and now they've got a healer on their side. Alternatively, throw in a bunch of low levelled master summoner troops who are there to aid their master, the undead lord cleric who can cast a stronger version channel negative energy to heal their undead (in addition to having his own undead).

Skelton Summoner only works once per day unless your summoning human skeletons(SM1) or human skelton champions(SM3). Mass summons are a pain the butt though. They eat up a lot of time and they don't last too long so they may require the summoner to be there at the scene, as oppose to animated dead which can fill a dungeon and perform task for days on end.

D20SRD wrote:
Benefit: Add "human skeleton" to the list of creatures you can summon with summon monster I and "human skeletal champion" to the list of creatures you can summon with summon monster III. Once per day, when you cast summon monster, you may summon a skeletal version of one of the creatures on that spell's summoning list (apply the skeleton template to that creature to create this monster).


If this is for an NPC villain, the ability to create/command undead is pretty inconsequential; he has whatever undead minions you choose to give him.

I'd call it a toss up between Cleric for channel to heal his minions, and Wizard for a superior spell list. Though an undead Eidolon could make a cool heavy hitter.
As mentioned earlier, find some way to give your BBEG access to desecrate, a cleric minion or a scroll is a viable means for an arcanist to desecrate his lair.


Don't forget one thing: At least my party would most likely completely ignore the undead and just focus everything they have on the necromancer, figuring once he's dead the undead aren't a big problem anymore.

Doesn't help that they have the ranged attack power to pull it off too.

What I'm saying is, some classes might look good on paper and have great abilities, but if they just get killed in two volleys of arrows and a fireball, it doesn't help.


Mystic theurge with leadership.
Cleric levels to create undead.
Wizard levels to create undead.
Cleric feat to control undead.
Leadership to take undead cohort.
Cohort with class levels may create or control undead as well.


Super genius games death mage. Particularly if army of undead is what you are going for, no one can have more then a death mage specialized in it.

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