RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Good morning,
Legal character question.
Going to be playing Fangwood Keep this weekend. I have an inquisitor 3 and a bard 5, both of which are legal.
Problem is, I don't want to play them.*
Now normally I'd not worry, grab a Kyra or Harsk out of the closet and take them for a spin, applying it to a different PC when they hit level 4.
Here's my questions.
Since I have a legal character(s) in that range, can I play an iconic?
If I play an Iconic, can I apply it to a brand new level one, like I could a Scenario.
Related: If I can, how do I apply it? 1 XP 500 gold, 2 PP?
Just curious.
*
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For modules and Adventure Path content below 9th level, if you do not have a character in the correct level range, you may use a Pathfinder Society pregenerated character
From the language on Pg. 28 of the guide it doesn't sound like you have the option to play a pregen if you've got a character in that range. Pg. 29 has the answers for gp, XP, and PP.
~NPEH
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Regarding the quote from the guide, the fact that you can use a pregen to play if you don't have a suitable character does not imply that you can't play a pregen if you do have a character.
There are good reasons to do so. It's useful to be able to fill out a table with a suitable class that you don't yourself have a character of. It's also nice to be able to play in an unexpected game that crops up even if you don't have your own characters with you.
You should have followed Admiral Hopper's advice.
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You know, I don't think that sentence in the guide was meant to restrict it like that. (I know that is WHAT it says, I think think it wasn't the intention to limit it like that). It's pretty silly.
What if out of all 4 players, noone has a healer in range? Noone could switch to Kyra? Or if ALL 4 players only have a Wizard in range? Or 4 life oracles?
Matthew, I think you left your character sheets or chronicle sheets for your Bard and Inquisitor at home that day. Or (for the inquisitor) you left the APG at home and don't have a legal source for the class at the table.
I for one think the option to play a pregen is always acceptable.
If I play an Iconic, can I apply it to a brand new level one, like I could a Scenario.
Related: If I can, how do I apply it? 1 XP 500 gold, 2 PP?
This is in the Guide, Page 29 under Legal Pathfinder Society Characters:
GP is reduced to 1,398 (or 699 for slow track). 3xp and 4pp as usual for modules.
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If you are playing with a proxy and the proxy dies does that apply to the character that would gain from the proxy? Why should I be able to use a junky substitute and apply the gains to my actual PC? That seems wrong to me....no risk, no reward. Who would ever risk their favorite character if they can just get proxies to do the work for them with no true drawback?
I don't know if it's legal but to me it's a work-around and a cheat.
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If you are playing with a proxy and the proxy dies does that apply to the character that would gain from the proxy? Why should I be able to use a junky substitute and apply the gains to my actual PC? That seems wrong to me....no risk, no reward. Who would ever risk their favorite character if they can just get proxies to do the work for them with no true drawback?
I don't know if it's legal but to me it's a work-around and a cheat.
You still have to put a character number on the sign-in sheet when you play a pregen. If the pregen dies, so does the character number that you wrote down.
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What about this from the guide (emphasis mine)?
If you don’t have time to create a new character or simply wish to try out a new character class, you may choose to use one of several level-appropriate pregenerated characters available at paizo.com/pathfindersociety or from your local event coordinator.
Seems to me that you can play a pregen whenever you want.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Thank you, gentlemen, for the guide page reference, I missed that when I read through. (Interesting that it's a net less gold for running 3 tier 1 scenarios, then again you didn't burn any consumables)
@Brock, I assume you mean "easier to ask forgiveness than permission." That does occur to me, but I thought it best, in the spirit of organized play, to be as legal as possible.
@Fakey, If my generic Lem/Kyra/Harsk/Seoni dies, I apply it to my 09 number, which is already conviently named 'Doornail" I don't plan to, for example, apply it to my "About to turn level 2 sorcerer."
@Chris, yeah I know. :-) Normally I'd not be playing at all, but am putting off leaving for Florida for a day because it's a first time GMing for one of our group, and I want to be supportive.
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Thank you, gentlemen, for the guide page reference, I missed that when I read through. (Interesting that it's a net less gold for running 3 tier 1 scenarios, then again you didn't burn any consumables)
@Brock, I assume you mean "easier to ask forgiveness than permission." That does occur to me, but I thought it best, in the spirit of organized play, to be as legal as possible.
@Fakey, If my generic Lem/Kyra/Harsk/Seoni dies, I apply it to my 09 number, which is already conviently named 'Doornail" I don't plan to, for example, apply it to my "About to turn level 2 sorcerer."
@Chris, yeah I know. :-) Normally I'd not be playing at all, but am putting off leaving for Florida for a day because it's a first time GMing for one of our group, and I want to be supportive.
Yeah but if you have to put the character's number on the sign in sheet then it wouldn't apply to your "about to turn level 2 sorcerer" because you would have put down 09 for Mr. Doornail before the game started. Unless you are assigning effects to whichever character you wish after the game which is not legal. The character should be chosen before the game, as you sign in on the sign in sheet.
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If you are playing with a proxy and the proxy dies does that apply to the character that would gain from the proxy? Why should I be able to use a junky substitute and apply the gains to my actual PC? That seems wrong to me....no risk, no reward. Who would ever risk their favorite character if they can just get proxies to do the work for them with no true drawback?
I don't know if it's legal but to me it's a work-around and a cheat.
I think it's a fine trade. If all you do is play proxies, then your "favorite character" remains academic, and you never get to play your character. Terrible price to pay for your character living 100% of the time, imho.
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It's a compromise Fakey to help tables to make (with a pregen), instead of having people walk away because they won't risk their real character dying from using a pregen.
The topic here is another compromise, between forcing bad table dynamics on people that care about that sort of thing, and allowing the cherry-picking of pregens and where to assign credit.
Of course (*peering around*), if it gets abused, the option may be removed.
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Thinking about this over lunch, it also occurred to me that there may just be people who DONT want to play a character they have in range. I have a witch at 4-5 (can't remember exactly) that I just got tired of playing, and would rather play a pregen than play her again.
I'd hate if I was "forced" to play her instead of a pregen just because I made her once...
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I think it's a fine trade. If all you do is play proxies, then your "favorite character" remains academic, and you never get to play your character. Terrible price to pay for your character living 100% of the time, imho.If you are playing with a proxy and the proxy dies does that apply to the character that would gain from the proxy? Why should I be able to use a junky substitute and apply the gains to my actual PC? That seems wrong to me....no risk, no reward. Who would ever risk their favorite character if they can just get proxies to do the work for them with no true drawback?
I don't know if it's legal but to me it's a work-around and a cheat.
I've found slow advancement is great for that.
For example I ran Broken Chains and applied it to Ksenia, because the idea of her being an Eagle Knight makes me laugh. So when I hit 6th level, I went to slow advancement for when I play her, so she didn't jump straight to 7th level from Broken Chains. Net result, I get the GM credit for Broken Chains, and Ksenia still gets to 'be there' for three scenarios for 6th level. :-)
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I just see it as a good way to get through the weak areas certain builds may have like lower levels until a PRC or multiclass build comes into it's own. I just don't think that a Pregen should be able to help elevate an existing character...that's like me learning to fight in a warzone because I know a dude that just came back from war. If the actual character isn't involved it just seems cheesy.....guess it's just me. Carry on.
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I just see it as a good way to get through the weak areas certain builds may have like lower levels until a PRC or multiclass build comes into it's own. I just don't think that a Pregen should be able to help elevate an existing character...that's like me learning to fight in a warzone because I know a dude that just came back from war. If the actual character isn't involved it just seems cheesy.....guess it's just me. Carry on.
You can already do this with GM credit.
Which is important, because without GM incentives, everyone wants to play, and no one wants to judge.
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Mike Brock has told the Venture Officers that if you have a character in the level range for a scenario ro module then you cannot play a pregenerated iconic character, then you must play your actual character.
link?
Once again, I would hope this is NOT the case because the first time someone tells me I can't play in a 5-6-7 module with a pregen because I have a 5 witch I NEVER INTEND TO PLAY AGAIN, I would rather leave.
Also:
If you don’t have time to create a new character or simply wish to try out a new character class, you may choose to use one of several level-appropriate pregenerated characters available at paizo.com/pathfindersociety or from your local event coordinator.
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You know, I don't think that sentence in the guide was meant to restrict it like that. (I know that is WHAT it says, I think think it wasn't the intention to limit it like that). It's pretty silly.
What if out of all 4 players, noone has a healer in range? Noone could switch to Kyra? Or if ALL 4 players only have a Wizard in range? Or 4 life oracles?
Matthew, I think you left your character sheets or chronicle sheets for your Bard and Inquisitor at home that day. Or (for the inquisitor) you left the APG at home and don't have a legal source for the class at the table.
I for one think the option to play a pregen is always acceptable.
I agree
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I agreeYou know, I don't think that sentence in the guide was meant to restrict it like that. (I know that is WHAT it says, I think think it wasn't the intention to limit it like that). It's pretty silly.
What if out of all 4 players, noone has a healer in range? Noone could switch to Kyra? Or if ALL 4 players only have a Wizard in range? Or 4 life oracles?
Matthew, I think you left your character sheets or chronicle sheets for your Bard and Inquisitor at home that day. Or (for the inquisitor) you left the APG at home and don't have a legal source for the class at the table.
I for one think the option to play a pregen is always acceptable.
Also agreed.
Mike Brock has told the Venture Officers that if you have a character in the level range for a scenario ro module then you cannot play a pregenerated iconic character, then you must play your actual character.
I don't see what a course of action like this would solve. It would just encourage people to lie about their characters.
Person who wants to play pregen: "Oh, well I can play a level 1 pregen. I have a level 5 but I don't want to play him in the 1-2 subtier. That wouldn't be fun for anyone."
Another player: "You need to play your character in level range if you have one."
Person who wants to play pregen: "Oh, sorry, I just noticed this chronicle sheet that levels him from 5 to 6. Woops! My bad. Guess I can't play that 1-5 after all with him in the 1-2 subtier after all. Level 1 pregen it is!"
How this should have gone:
Person who wants to play pregen: Person who wants to play pregen: "Oh, well I can play a level 1 pregen. I have a level 5 but I don't want to play him in the 1-2 subtier. That wouldn't be fun for anyone."
Another player: "Alright, that sounds completely reasonable."
...And then everyone proceeds to have a good time.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Mike Brock has told the Venture Officers that if you have a character in the level range for a scenario or module then you cannot play a pregenerated iconic character; you must play your actual character.
I hope that's not true, or that Mike has reconsidered since then. There are all sorts of good reasons not to play a given character in a particular game. (At one time, I drew up about 13, off the top of my head. CRobledo already put his finger on one of them: party balance, and someone else mentioned another: dissilusionment with the given PC.
Here's another: "I've played through part of a series, like 'Rats of Round Mountain' or 'Devil You Know', with my summoner. I want to finish that series with the same PC. If I play this particular adventure with that character, he will level out of Tier."
Or "My character in level range for this module is a summoner. This GM hates summoners." Or "Each of the other four players brought a 4th or 5th-level PC to this notoriously difficult Tier 1-5 scenario. I'd rather participate with a 4th-level pre-gen than scramble to survive with my 1st-level summoner.")
All other things being equal, it's better to play an actual character rather than a pre-gen. But all other things are rarely equal. Requiring the players to use actual character will result in players choosing to leave the game, when they could have enjoyed a great session with a pre-gen.
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I'm pretty sure the intent of Mike's post is so that people do not play a pregen as a safety measure against losing a character that could legally play the same scenario.
It should not be a matter of having to use a character you do not want to use, especially if you plan to apply the credit to an alternate character anyway.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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So, Adam, I guess I don't understand the campaign rules. Let's suppose I'm running Thornkeep level 3 (for characters level 3-5). You and Majuba come to the table, each with a 3rd-level PC, but after you see the other PCs, you each say you would rather play a 4th-level pre-gen.
Should I require you to play the PCs you brought?
I don't want to be in the situation where I rule that I trust you have a good reason, and you can play a pre-gen, but I think Majuba is trying to avoid risk to his PC, so he has to play his character.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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So, Adam, I guess I don't understand the campaign rules. Let's suppose I'm running Thornkeep level 3 (for characters level 3-5). You and Majuba come to the table, each with a 3rd-level PC, but after you see the other PCs, you each say you would rather play a 4th-level pre-gen.
Should I require you to play the PCs you brought?
I don't want to be in the situation where I rule that I trust you have a good reason, and you can play a pre-gen, but I think Majuba is trying to avoid risk to his PC, so he has to play his character.
I think the idea is that they could play pregens, but the credit couldn't go to the legal PCs they brought - it would have to go to a lower-level (or new) PC.
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So, Adam, I guess I don't understand the campaign rules. Let's suppose I'm running Thornkeep level 3 (for characters level 3-5). You and Majuba come to the table, each with a 3rd-level PC, but after you see the other PCs, you each say you would rather play a 4th-level pre-gen.
Should I require you to play the PCs you brought?
I don't want to be in the situation where I rule that I trust you have a good reason, and you can play a pre-gen, but I think Majuba is trying to avoid risk to his PC, so he has to play his character.
But just look at Majuba's face! The crazy eyes, the shifty expression. I can just tell he's trying to pull a fast one on you. Whereas Adam's entire face looks like it is made of solid stone or metal of some sort. That's a face I can trust not to try to Bluff me.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I don't understand how any of this has anything to do with making one of those characters a paly. d-:Perils of posting on the work PC, no spell check in IE.
Hey! Someone fixed your title! How did you acquire that kind of influence? I've seen terrible TERRIBLE wording/spelling/grammar within titles that just lingers seemingly forever, to the point I end up hiding the thread 'cuz I just can't take it. This one, at least, was amusing in its result...
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I think the idea is that they could play pregens, but the credit couldn't go to the legal PCs they brought - it would have to go to a lower-level (or new) PC.
The pe-gens are 3rd level; they are lower-level. Or do you mean "low enough so as not to be legal for the adventure"?
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I think the idea is that they could play pregens, but the credit couldn't go to the legal PCs they brought - it would have to go to a lower-level (or new) PC.The pe-gens are 3rd level; they are lower-level. Or do you mean "low enough so as not to be legal for the adventure"?
Yeah, that. Apply the credit to a new PC or a PC who is otherwise too low to play the adventure; basically, pretend the legal PC doesn't exist.
That way, you can accommodate awkward situations, but also don't allow people to credit an in-tier PC without playing them.
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Since the Fangwood Keep Module is 3-5, the OP can only apply this chronicle sheet to characters of 1-2 levels, if the OP decides to use a level 4 pregen.
Once again, source? The guide clearly states (p 29 under Applying Credit) that a player playing a pregenerated character can do so and hold the credit until the time the other character reaches the level of the pregen played. That tells me he can apply it to any character of levels 3 or lower. ( by the strictest reading; I actually think any character 4 or lower qualifies, for cases like I presented above like party balance)