RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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What about this idea:
Allow 5PP to get gear back, just like body recovery. But in situations where the gear was voluntarily given up (such as the referenced encounter), where "gear recovery" is more like "doubling back on your word and mugging the new owner", it's considered an evil act that automatically shifts your alignment one step closer to evil. GM discretion determines what situations these are.
How would that be?
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What about this idea:
Allow 5PP to get gear back, just like body recovery. But in situations where the gear was voluntarily given up (such as the referenced encounter), where "gear recovery" is more like "doubling back on your word and mugging the new owner", it's considered an evil act that automatically shifts your alignment one step closer to evil. GM discretion determines what situations these are.
How would that be?
Stealing is chaotic, not necessarily evil.
Depending on what you're stealing, and who you're stealing from, it can be either good or evil.
Stealing from the poor who will starve without the money you stole? Evil. Stealing from the rich to give to the poor? Robin Hood! (probably chaotic good)
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I agree that stealing is not inherently evil (but is, as you note, chaotic). Hence why I'm only talking about certain instances of gear recovery: the process of giving someone something under the pretense of it being a gift or a trade or whatever, then waiting until you're safe at home and sending a squad to mug them and take it back*, well that seems a tad on the evil side to me. Or at least, close enough to evil that an alignment-based mechanic could be implemented to resolve the issue being discussed in this thread.
And really, "close enough to justify a useful rule" is all we really need, isn't it? ;)
*So really it's not your gear you're stealing, it's whatever it was that the original exchange got you that you're stealing.
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I would not consider mugging a dragon of the stuff you gave him terribly evil :). I would say anything voluntarily given is sacrificed, anything not voluntarily given is not and should be recoverable for no more (and probably less) than the cost of recovering a full body with all of its gear. Remember, at no point is PP wasted anymore; these days PP can be used to buy hit points (at a rate of 3 PP per hp) thanks to retraining rules... that's actually a pretty big deal in my books.
Because it is kinda funny that it would have been worth it for my character to leap to his death if his Flying Carpet was permanently buried into stone that he could never otherwise get it out of. Plus, the idea of being forced to surrender doesn't go very well with a loyal soldier of the Chelaxian Empire. I'm sure he took a whipping on principal for that one :).
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There should probably be a distinction made between items lost/stolen or otherwise taken from the player against their will/desire, and a player that willing gives up an item. Significant loss of wealth can effectively retire a character, and so there needs to be a way to recover that loss.
5PP is not a trivial amount, especially with introduction of retraining rules. And while it may pale in comparison to the value of the item lost, it's still significant enough to not be a desirable price to pay.
The way I'd approach it, is to recover lost or stolen gear (any item(s) taken from a character against their will by an npc, monster or environment/situation) costs 5PP. It's essentially an insurance policy, and it's in the Society's best interest to keep it's agents at full capacity.
If a character willing gives up an item(s), as a bribe or gift in order to complete the scenario successfully, the item is replaceable with a PP cost based on the items value. Some sort of tiered system 0-5000gp = 5PP, 5001-15000gp = 10pp, 15001-30000gp = 15PP, etc.. Basically an insurance policy, something significant, but still reasonably affordable considering the actual gold value of the item.
Either way, to lose a significant amount of wealth in PFS is a problem that can retire a character. If these were home games, then the character has options available to recover said wealth in a variety of ways, none of which exist in PFS.
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Or, you know, you could not let your stuff get stolen in the first place..
That seems to me to be a terrible point of view. That's along the lines of blaming the victim when they get robbed at gun point, because you know, they "didn't do enough" to avoid being robbed.
Permanently losing gear in a game setup like PFS, because a GM decides to use the steal maneuver and then retreat, is a jerk move. A big reason is because a player has no recourse once the scenario is over to recover the item due to the mechanics of PFS. So there needs to be a way to address that, and simply telling a player, "not let your stuff get stolen in the first place" is not an appropriate response.
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A victim of a robbery is seldom a wizard or druid...
Is stealing stuff from NPCs a jerk move? I bet they don't like their stuff stolen either. Too bad they can't just pay 5 PP and get it back. *starts thinking of this idea for an adventure or perhaps a quest*
Oh, and stating that my tongue-in-cheek response is not an appropriate response is merely your opinion, please refrain from stating it as a fact. I know many players who love the challenge their character has to face after their stuff gets stolen (right Chad?!).
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A victim of a robbery is seldom a wizard or druid...
Is stealing stuff from NPCs a jerk move? I bet they don't like their stuff stolen either. Too bad they can't just pay 5 PP and get it back. *starts thinking of this idea for an adventure or perhaps a quest*
Oh, and stating that my tongue-in-cheek response is not an appropriate response is merely your opinion, please refrain from stating it as a fact. I know many players who love the challenge their character has to face after their stuff gets stolen (right Chad?!).
Kyle Baird - learnin' Pathfinders not to neglect their CMD since season 1!
:p
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There are a lot of ways to help with stuff getting stolen. Locked gauntlets for example, if my arcane bond was a weapon, would be a must for me.
It should be a player's responsibility to help their character not lose their equipment. Neglecting your CMD, for example, and then arguing for a cheap recovery when your bow is disarmed and stolen is absurd.
Have an item you can't live w/o? Come up with a way not to lose it easily. Weapon cords, locking gauntlets, bags of holding, portable holes, etc all exist to keep your gear safe.
*starts designing an encounter where bandits attack with the primary purpose of looting the PCs*
Yes Carlos, Dark Stalkers will be involved.
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(nods) I was the GM in question. This was a Tier 5-9 scenario where the Pathfinders invaded the Aspis headquarters intent do commit mayhem. It was, in a word, war. I could see the Aspis handing back the bodies (two alive but unconscious, one dead), as if they were prisoners of war, but countries don't also return the captured tanks and planes.
Actually, that is not strictly true. Ransom for captured Medieval knights often included the knight's equipment and steed as well as the knight. And other times these items were ransomed separately. It is said King Edward III paid Geoffrey Chaucer's ransom as much to get the trained war horse he was riding back as to get Chaucer, as he was only a 16-year-old squire at the time.
Yeah, fair point. Maybe the solution needs to be entirely out-of-character. Give something up, it's gone. Something gets taken, you can 5PP it back later.Or, you know, you could not let your stuff get stolen in the first place..
Sir:
I dont know you at all. And i may be misreading your statement.....
But really?
A statment like that almost requires an escalation between players and DM to make sure your character sheet is properly filled out notating all those ways you have your gear secured.
How is that "fun"?
make sure your character sheet is properly filled out notating all those ways you have your gear secured.Within reason, you absolutely should.
Within reason....
Absolutly
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I clearly am in favor of allowing an option to pay for item retrieval.
I've been there - and it was no fun.
Situation:
Captured and taken prisoner (stripped) - so far no issue. We can only blame ourselves to have gotten into this situation.
A little bit of context: I played a wizard 1 scenario before wanting to play Eyes of the 10. The way I saw it I had the following options (the GM might have thought of an option d) but this didn't occur to anyone)
a) to chance a concentration check and try dimension door away together without items and permanently lose them all
b) to go out in glory in a suicidal attack (and doom the rest of the party for a TPK) and get eaten to pay for body retrieval with items (5pp), resurrection (32 pp) and removing 1 level (4pp)
c) just write the character off
meta-gaming b) is the better option compared to a) in absence of any way to retrieve items as it is a lot cheaper at that level.
My personal preference was b) before c) before a)
The lack of any way to retrieve items makes a) the least interesting one (in my view) under these circumstances. So either the GM invents an alternative d) or - well - you have a massive problem.
I agree that items voluntarily given away should not be retrievable as that games the system.
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Do insight bonuses increase CMD? If so, +3 to CMD.Yes, but the bonus to CMD from the resonance effect is also an insight bonus, so they wouldn't stack.
That is a matter of some debate. I am of the belief the final tally of this combination is +1 AC, +2 CMB, +3 CMD. The reason for my impression is as follows:
Stacking: Stacking refers to the act of adding together bonuses or penalties that apply to one particular check or statistic. Generally speaking, most bonuses of the same type do not stack. Instead, only the highest bonus applies. Most penalties do stack, meaning that their values are added together. Penalties and bonuses generally stack with one another, meaning that the penalties might negate or exceed part or all of the bonuses, and vice versa.
Armor class is one statistic.
Combat Maneuver Defense is another statistic.
The synergy is strange here because of the symbiosis of the two statistics, but they are clearly two separate statistics.
I think one could make a good case either way.
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Honestly the tactics of a villian stealing your goodies and running off does not seem like any tactic I read about.
I am sure it may happen, but a demon bamfing in on a surprise round, winning initiative,stealing something bamfing out with it is a very powerful tactic. But really is that fun for your players?
The gen con special would immediately be the most hated mod had the demons done this instead of fighting us.
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Honestly the tactics of a villian stealing your goodies and running off does not seem like any tactic I read about.
I am sure it may happen, but a demon bamfing in on a surprise round, winning initiative,stealing something bamfing out with it is a very powerful tactic. But really is that fun for your players?
The gen con special would immediately be the most hated mod had the demons done this instead of fighting us.
It is the tactic of the BBEG in one particular PFS scenario. I'm not naming names, though this thread is somewhat amusing and ironic for reasons known to those of us who have played it, and are in on the joke.
But it's not a sneak attack by any means. I don't want to give too much away, but the BBEG, and its greedy tactic, can be seen coming from a mile away. And the BBEG doesn't run away once it grabs a valuable item from one PC - it sticks around trying to kill them all for the rest for their stuff, too.
Frankly, given how long that scenario's been out, and how many people have played it, I'm really surprised the question of recovering stolen equipment hasn't generated this type of discussion before. I'd guess we'll get some sort of ruling from PFS staff, and it'll be mentioned in the next version of the Guide to Organized Play. I agree that there should be some way to recover your stuff, but it shouldn't be cheap. I'm thinking more than 5 PP - remember, that 5 PP is usually accompanied by 16 more for the Raise Dead, plus the Restoration costs, etc. So if they decided to charge 10 PP or something for this, it's still cheaper than an actual death.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Honestly the tactics of a villian stealing your goodies and running off does not seem like any tactic I read about.
I am sure it may happen, but a demon bamfing in on a surprise round, winning initiative,stealing something bamfing out with it is a very powerful tactic. But really is that fun for your players?
The gen con special would immediately be the most hated mod had the demons done this instead of fighting us.
For some, it already was.
Things I know of that demons have done in PFS games:
- Left before dying to inform their buddies PCs were on their way.
- Teleported in front of retreating PCs, so they couldn't escape.
- Snatched a holy symbol and ported away with it, so a cleric couldn't channel.
- Used power word stun on an invisible PC, then obliterated him on the following round. His friends didn't know where he was to save him.
- Steal a very shiny bow, teleport to a volcano, and throw it in.
- Use magic jar to snatch a PCs body and run it off a cliff.
- Bear hug (bull rush) a PC off a cliff and go down with him so they could engage in 1 on 1 combat, away from those pesky healers.
Demons are evil. They do evil things. They are jerks.
There is a lot to be said for following tactics and ensuring a fun table, but, by and large, demons are intelligent foes. More often still, their tactics are undefinined after round 2 or 3.
Does such an evil, twisted creature keep attacking the monk with the unhittible AC? Or do they ready an action to kill the unconscious bard unless the PCs agree to surrender? What happens depends on the atmosphere of the players at the table, the scenario itself, and the GM.
I'd agree that having a flat number of prestige players can spend to recover lost/destroyed items is likely a good idea. Perhaps limit it to "non scripted losses" somehow.
Players (self included) like their trinkets.
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While the loss of items in such a manner is rarely fun and can lead to a gaping hole in WBL, the element that seems to be bothering me more than the loss itself is that choosing to die and pay to have your body recovered could be seen as a more desirable outcome.
Death should never be seen as the more desirable outcome. But when you measure "lose your +4 agile amulet of mighty fists" against "die and pay 5 PP for a recovery", I don't know anyone who'd prefer the former.
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Honestly this just screams DM jerk move to me.
I KNOW Dms that made promises to kill other players characters becuase they did not like them.
Now a jerk like that knowing this could be a way to fudge the strategy to punish a player in season 5 is a dangerous place to be in. When stealing their stuff or destroying it in hell is more damaging than killing the character.
Or is this a pick your DMs with caution kinda thing?
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a) to chance a concentration check and try dimension door away together without items and permanently lose them all
b) to go out in glory in a suicidal attack (and doom the rest of the party for a TPK) and get eaten to pay for body retrieval with items (5pp), resurrection (32 pp) and removing 1 level (4pp)
c) just write the character off
meta-gaming b) is the better option compared to a) in absence of any way to retrieve items as it is a lot cheaper at that level.
My personal preference was b) before c) before a)
The lack of any way to retrieve items makes a) the least interesting one (in my view) under these circumstances. So either the GM invents an alternative d) or - well - you have a massive problem.
The problem is that WBL works so differently by RAW and in PFS. In PFS every consumable used and every item lost is a permanent dent in your WBL which is not how wealth works in a real campaign.
In a real campaign the DM can do whatever they want to ensure that the characters have the appropriate wealth available at each level as RAW assumes. If characters lose large amounts of gear, the DM can add a side quest to get it back, or at least work it into the character's arc.
In PFS you lose the ability to do this. There are no side quests, there is no persistent story or character arc, so there absolutely has to be a way to retrieve lost gear. Either that or tactics which involve grabbing gear need to be off the table. I prefer the former as it makes the game overall closer to RAW since the necessary adjustment for the change in WBL is covered entirely by house rules. If neither of these thigns happens, then suicide and a 5PP body retrieval could be the best option and that is taking the gameist logic too far, even for an organized play campaign.
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It should be a player's responsibility to help their character not lose their equipment. Neglecting your CMD, for example, and then arguing for a cheap recovery when your bow is disarmed and stolen is absurd.
Normally, I'd agree with you, it is a players responsibility to secure their equipment and try to keep it safe. The problem lies in how PFS functions, and the ramifications losing wealth has. In a normal campaign, if you have your bow disarmed and stolen, you can attempt to get it back. Maybe you infiltrate the lair/base of those who stole it, or maybe you under go a quest to acquire a new powerful bow to replace it. In PFS you have no such options, once the scenario is done, or a situation moves outside of the parameters of the scenario, you're effectively permanently damaged. Permanent loss of wealth in PFS is as debilitating and damaging as permanent strength damage to a melee fighter, or permanent negative levels (both of which, if are not resolved at the end of a scenario, retire your character).
Oh, and stating that my tongue-in-cheek response is not an appropriate response is merely your opinion, please refrain from stating it as a fact. I know many players who love the challenge their character has to face after their stuff gets stolen (right Chad?!).
Whether it was tongue-in-cheek is rather inconsequential, the conversation isn't "How do I as a player deal with my stuff getting stolen in game?" it's "A player had an item stolen and could be permanently lost, do they have any recourse?" Your response is not appropriate because it doesn't answer the question at hand. Being a joke doesn't negate that.
While your players may love the challenge faced after their items are stolen, it's the lack of recourse in PFS that makes this a jerk move, and the core issue at hand. Permanent lose of an item only promotes players to kill their characters and get them resurrected, rather then have expensive gear stolen or lost. I don't think anyone believes that's a good mentality to promote.
This isn't fun for anyone, except maybe the GM. And if a GM is taking pleasure in a players misery, they shouldn't be GMing at all. (Kyle note that this is not directed at you nor is it intended to imply that you're a bad GM or shouldn't be GMing, this bit is just a general statement and opinion.)
note: Maybe part of the problem is I've been mugged in real life, and so even virtual theft with threat of violence already has me emotionally charged and a bit serious. But even if that's true, I think my perspective and opinions still hold water.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I like John's suggestion that the cost of recovering stolen equipment might scale with the CR of the thief. (In-world justification: the Society has to expend proportionally greater resources to track down and recover the equipment if it's being held by a powerful demon, than if it's held by a wet-behind-the-ears pair of merfolk rogues.)
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I will disagree with Vastlyapparent on one particular: if someone swipes a PC's stuff and runs off with it, it is perfectly reasonable for the PC to pursue, if possible, even if it moves beyond the scope of the scenario. That's happened to me a couple of times: an NPC tries to escape, and the PCs want to pursue. That's where the Chase Deck shines.
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Whether it was tongue-in-cheek is rather inconsequential
Again, we're back to stating opinions as facts and attacking another persons point of view instead of addressing the topic at hand. If you'd like for me to tell you that you've won the internet, then fine, you've won the internet. Congratulations, now you can turn it off.
No one can make the blanket statement that having your gear stolen "isn't fun for anyone except the GM," it's just not true. It's not a fact. You can say, "In my opinion and from my (very*) limited experience, most players don't like their gear stolen." Some people see the loss of an item as a challenge to overcome and actually want to be challenged by the games they play.
Of course no player** actively seeks to have their gear stolen. No player also wants to their character to die***.
You want recourse? What about if you don't earn max PP? What if you don't earn max GP? What if you don't earn all the boons or gain a negative boon? Not getting max PP or or max gold also puts you behind the magical wealth curve. Do you need recourse for all the times you fail to "win" Pathfinder?
I guess I'll start writing some more convention boons around this idea if that's what the player base needs. New boon: "If at any time you fail to earn maximum gold or prestige in a scenario, show this chronicle to your GM, kick them in the shin and demand a new chronicle."
*Everyone's experience, no matter how many stars they have or games they've played represents just a small fraction of the PFS games and experiences in the world. It's impossible for any one person to claim to know with certainty that their experiences represent the population as a whole.
**Except Doug Miles.
***Again, Doug Miles.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Kyle has a point.
If your PC dies, and you pay either gold or prestige to recover the body, get a raise dead, and remove the negative levels, your character's wealth has taken a serious hit. That's, like, 12 1st-level wands, or almost an entire island if you pay in prestige.
When bad things happen to your character in PFS, there's no supermatural force that restores your equipment-karma. That's part of the campaign.
I'd like to make a distinction here, though. There's a difference between "Someone stole my cool bow" and "I was unconscious in the Aspis Consortium's home base and they took all my equipment." The issue here is that "all my equipment" is a heavier burden than death at high levels. Given the Fame limitations for purchases, it's unlikely that a single stolen item has the same impact.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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You want recourse? What about if you don't earn max PP? What if you don't earn max GP? What if you don't earn all the boons or gain a negative boon? Not getting max PP or or max gold also puts you behind the magical wealth curve. Do you need recourse for all the times you fail to "win" Pathfinder?
This is one of my least favorite aspects of PFS players. Next to the (less common) "Why can't I replay scenarios?" question, this question gets me most riled up.
I just can't fathom why a player thinks that, just because they didn't get something, they are "nerfed." And, with the Season 5 changes, I'm starting to hear and read this a lot more.
So, don't get them all worked up, Kyle. We don't need anyone busting out WBL tables and talking about "balance" again...
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I'd like to make a distinction here, though. There's a difference between "Someone stole my cool bow" and "I was unconscious in the Aspis Consortium's home base and they took all my equipment." The issue here is that "all my equipment" is a heavier burden than death at high levels. Given the Fame limitations for purchases, it's unlikely that a single stolen item has the same impact.
And there is possibly recourse for this. There will not be a scenario where the tactics of an encounter are to permanently steal all of the PCs loot.
If the GM goes off the rails with tactics and steals your gear, you do have recourse. You can talk to the GM about the NPC tactics. If they don't specifically say they take your stuff, then ask why they did it. There may be (perfectly valid) specific reasons why the GM did that outside of the written tactics. If the GM doesn't want to have that discussion or you're still unhappy with what took place, talk to a Venture-Officer. They can talk with your GM and decide if what took place was within the spirit of the scenario. There's your recourse.
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No one can make the blanket statement that having your gear stolen "isn't fun for anyone except the GM," it's just not true. It's not a fact. You can say, "In my opinion and from my (very*) limited experience, most players don't like their gear stolen." Some people see the loss of an item as a challenge to overcome and actually want to be challenged by the games they play.
Any character that actually wants the challenge of having less gear can have it simply by chucking their sword in the lake in hopes of reenacting a farcical aquatic ceremony for the next adventurer to come along.
The other posters point is that the loosing the gear is otherwise not a challenge at all: there's no contest to get it back. There's no competition with the being that took it because the being that took it is gone. There's no confrontation because PFS isn't sandbox enough to track the thief down in the next adventure (which is what your character would be doing).
The item is gone forever not because of any obstacle to the character its happening to the character but because if how the campaign functions for the player.
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Really? How often is "talk to teh Venture Captain about the tactics" valid? We have another thread that discusses whether NPCs should continue on with full attacks once a character falls to prevent healing.... at what point are the creatures allowed to be intelligent?
My contention is if they both steal and have morale break (and therefore run away),there should be a PP way to get it back without declaring your character jumping off a cliff.
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Again, we're back to stating opinions as facts and attacking another persons point of view instead of addressing the topic at hand.
Ironic that you are doing exactly this to me. Your derogatory and condescending tone is not appreciated.
You also seem to be putting words in my mouth. Never did I talk about recourse for all the different possible ways one can "fail" in Pathfinder. I'm only talking about a very specific set of circumstances, that relates to PFS only and is the subject of this thread:
A player has gear lost, stolen or otherwise taken from them by the GM. The scenario ends, and they weren't able to retrieve it within the scenario. In a normal campaign you could spend time on the side getting said items back, PFS you do not have that option. What is the players recourse for getting said item back or replaced?
You appear to believe there should be none, I disagree.
On a side note I have seen some boon's that allow you to gain a PP where you'd otherwise not get one, so a precedent already exists.
Everyone's experience, no matter how many stars they have or games they've played represents just a small fraction of the PFS games and experiences in the world. It's impossible for any one person to claim to know with certainty that their experiences represent the population as a whole.
Wise words, you should heed them. Sass intended.
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I don't understand that so much discussion is spend on stealing.
What about the following scenario:
You fight some force that is just too strong and you realize this. Instead of dying and do a TPK you rather surrender.
Why is this not happening? Well - in character there might be good reasons for the enemy to let you go. But they would likely let you go without weapons, armour, spellbook.
So being unable to retrieve items after the scenario makes surrender hardly ever an option.
Fleeing - yes - I have seen that. Surrender - not that I remember. And 'surrender' can happen also involuntarily. The whole group fails saving throws (sleep, Harpy Song, whole group goes unconcious but part/all stabilize). I would like as GM to have the option to just take prisoners - and to know rules wise how to handle them - instead of doing Coup de Grace to end it.
This really is in my view the weakness of no 'retrieve items for x PP'. The GM could even use this in game as the society buying the freedom of the people.
Shame the Shadow Lodge is gone. Grandmaster Torch was right. The Decemvirate doesn't care (while you still breath).
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I think a Quest that is designed ambiguously or amorphously to allow a GM to plop in BBEG X from Scenario Y with Map Z to recover equipment would be a cool Quest.
I'm thinking an actual scenario. Paizo staff could examine results to see which past scenario has had the most deaths, and send your team in to recover the bodies.
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The cases showing are cases where the NPC ended up with the PCs equipment (through steal or disarm), and their morale breaks and they are forced to flee. Disarm and take the bow is actually a very smart manuever for many monsters (bows do lots of damage, disarm takes only 1 attack, PCs with bows don't threaten); and some monsters are scripted to flee if their hp dip below a certain amount (and in the first case, the monster had stolen the trouble item, a flying carpet, and used Burrow text to bury it deep into stone where it was "effectively unrecoverable" for my PC). So then the question becomes, in an involuntary equipment loss, should the PC be allowed to pay some PP to have some mighty wizard locate the Flying Carpet / Bow and have it "zapped" to the PC?
Developer
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So here are some of the ideas I'm coming away with:
Tying GMs hands when it comes to creature tactics is off the table.
So long as there's some means of recovering from something, the typical player seems willing to accept that enemies can use creative tactics. Especially given the season is likely to be very demon-heavy, telling the demons to play nice would be a disservice to the outsiders' flavor.
There should be a means of recovering items.
Ideally this would be through using Prestige Points.
The cost of this recovery should be somewhere between "insignificant" and "raise dead plus restoration.
At this time I'm still feeling pretty good about 5 PP or the CR of the strongest surviving enemy combatant, whichever is higher. Thus far discussion seems to have focused more on whether or not it's morally acceptable for a creature (GM) to swipe a character's item, so I don't have a whole lot of feedback on the prospective mechanic itself.
Right now my character's only recourse is to commit item-recovery-suicide!
Without such a mechanism for recovery, you're probably right. As noted in the point above, although losing your prize item may seem like a fate worse than death, I'd rather it not be a recovery price worse than death (unless you've been picking fights with demon lords again). I find the idea of item-saving seppuku distasteful on several levels, but I'd rather not be pressured into modifying the item recovery mechanic and the body recovery mechanic to address such a tactic. If I did, I would have to alter body recovery to read something like, "5 PP to recover one's body and any items or equipment possessed by the character at the time of death," making item-recovery-suicide completely counterproductive.
So let's...just leave aside the item-recovery-suicide as a concept explored and that can be abandoned due to a better mechanic.
What items should be recoverable?
I'm liking the wording of allowing PP to recover an item stolen as a result of anything but the scenario's written tactics/developments (or at least charge a premium in that case). In that way the rare instances of "PFS-mandated" larceny/confiscation still shine for what they are, yet PCs can still recover from misfortune that befalls them when the GM's responding to the players' unexpected tactics has to adjust on the fly to match (many foes are smart).
How about a Quest that allows one to chase down the punk who stole my sword?
Hmmm...the idea is interesting, but the required flexibility might introduce some weird hiccups. For example, one map will not serve for all situations ("Why did the Gargantuan dragon flee to a townhouse?" or "Why did the noble flee to the Darklands?"). Further, the player tactics that would go into setting this up might invalidate many of the ways the Quest would be set up (Waiting until its asleep, accosting it while it's in the marketplace, busting down its door, etc.). Some of the encounters are also balanced with the terrain, allies, or PC resource attrition in mind, so rolling up alongside the 7th level wizard with your full group of 7th level PCs without the encounter's intended circumstances would be sad. Does the PC get to bring all of his buddies along? What if someone at the table says, "I have to go" and leaves. What if the convention slot ends before the group can run the optional Quest? Do we just plop a rakshasa in a cave in front of some other GM and ask them to close their eyes and stand still while the PCs mob him?
Is it possible to do this in a creative way that would address the above issues? Perhaps it is, but in a casual brainstorming I don't see how it could be done. I am perhaps more comfortable with the GM going off-book a bit if the PCs do something particularly creative to intercept the larcenous villain, such as using scrying to find his location, teleportation to arrive suddenly, and sheer force of arms to win. At least then its the same GM who understands the full context of what is happening and why.
That said, the idea of finding out which scenario is most deadly and then writing a sequel that addresses the less-than-victorious aftermath would be pretty neat. Since starting at Paizo I've been interested in writing/assigning a scenario that sends the PCs to do the 5 PP body recovery for another group.
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Sound reasonable so far? Anything to add?