|
It's late, but throwing this out to the forums.
Two wizards and their mooks are in initiative.
Wizard A has +15 initiative and rolled a 1.
Wizard B has +8 initiative and rolled a 20.
A door separates two wizards.
Both wizards ready actions to fireball the room beyond when the door opens.
A mook (on either side of the battle) opens the door at initiative 5.
Which wizard's spell incinerates whom first?
Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it.
http://paizo.com/prd/combat.html
It seems from that wording, if you readied a fireball for when the door opens, then your actoin would occur just before the action that triggers it (the door opening) and you would probably fry the people on your side of the door.
That aside, further text states : Initiative Consequences of Readying: Your initiative result becomes the count on which you took the readied action.
And: If two or more combatants have the same initiative check result, the combatants who are tied act in order of total initiative modifier (highest first)
So if you ignore the first part( which I don't know why you would, but hypothetical) than the wizard with the higher initiative modifier would get his action first.
As Jayder says, strict RAW, readying for the door to open will result in the spells being cast just before the door opens. They'd be better off delaying and stepping back into the initiative count after the door has actually opened.
And yes, there are GMs out there who would insist that readying works exactly that way. I might even be one of them. Readying is hair-trigger "if X happens, I'm going to Y as fast as I can!", and delaying is "I think I'll see how things pan out, and pick my moment carefully".
In my opinion, it's almost always the case that readying an action should only be done for movement or actions where you know you will be able to see the target during their action.
In the OP's example, if Wizard A had delayed and Wizard B had readied an action to cast fireball if he sees an enemy wizard casting a spell, B wins. If they both readied that same action, nothing would happen. If they both delayed, you're back to comparing initiative bonuses.
|
|
Further question on readying, and the fun of readying an action on the opening of a door...
A party has some beefy warrior types who are using their strength checks to try to push a heavy door open.
The party also includes a couple ranged characters who aren't participating in the opening of the door.
Same deal, the party wizard wants to use his spell on a hostile adversary beyond. At the same time, the BBEG beyond hears the party battering away at the door and wants to fireball them as soon as they enter.
Would this be a case of:
a) Can't ready outside of combat. Everyone rolls initiative after the doors have become open and starts on even ground at that point?
b) No initiative rolled as the initiative sequence is assumed by out-of-combat statements? Beefcakes opened the door, the wizards who both said they had intentions to blast the room beyond act. Poor ranged character who didn't state a ready action, or ever roll initiative just takes collateral damage for being in the wrong place at the wrong time?
|
Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it.
http://paizo.com/prd/combat.htmlIt seems from that wording, if you readied a fireball for when the door opens, then your actoin would occur just before the action that triggers it (the door opening) and you would probably fry the people on your side of the door.
Actually, you don't, since it is pretty obvious that the condition under which you will take your action is the door being opened (not closed anymore). The RAW's wording is inadequate here since your action occurs after the conditions are fulfilled yet "just before the action that triggers it".
You can consider that the triggering action is "finishing to open the door", so that the readied fireballs indeed do what they were supposed to do, rather than use the RAW to make life for the PCs impossible.
Second question, I would say b. The ranged character is no different from the wizard and could have readied to shoot at enemies (for example).
|
If the door-battering started happening outside of combat (and therefore, outside of initiative), then the door abuse is not combat so no initiative is rolled and 'special initiative actions' can't be taken. No 'ready', no 'delay'.
When the door bursts open, I wouldn't bother calling for perception checks if one side had been preparing to attack as soon as the door opened while the other had prepared to attack whatever has been hammering at the door.
So, roll initiative! It perfectly reflects reacting the quickest to the door finally giving way. No-one can actually know exactly when the door will finally give way, so the initiative mechanic is doing a good job here.
If combat/initiative is already going on, it's possible that the wizards, one on each side of the door, will have readied an action to fireball through the door at the earliest opportunity. No, this does not mean that the fireball goes off before the door opens! Have a word with yourself!
Readied actions have a trigger. If the trigger happens, your readied action happens. Casting the fireball happens before anything else, even before the other fireball is resolved.
This is the only d20 situation I can think of where there is simultaneous action: two readied actions triggered by the same event.
Let's assume the trigger is worded in such a way that it goes off after the door is opened, so we can stop being pedantic. :)
I would have the wizard with the higher initiative modifier get his fireball off first. If they had the same initiative modifier, I'd call for some manner of roll-off (probably opposed Initiative checks).
|
|
Second question, I would say b. The ranged character is no different from the wizard and could have readied to shoot at enemies (for example).
Ah, remember I said no initiative was rolled, and your average archer can't say that they ready an action to shoot someone without rolling initiative...
I've probably muddied the thread with 2 different questions, now. :)
Recap I have from thread thus far:
a) There's nothing RAW for how to deal with two wizards who are *in initiative* for self-assured mutual destruction when a door opens.
b) Most folks would go with whoever had the higher initiative modifier or in the case of a tie, do a roll-off using initiative modifiers.
A door separates two wizards.
I don't think you should have rolled for initiative yet in this case. The two parties cannot yet interact, even if they may be aware of each other. This means it is too early to make a readied action. I'd have everyone roll initiative after the door has been opened and the wizard who wins initiative gets to fireball first.
The bottom line is that if one side or the other or both are using either delayed actions or readied actions in order to get first strike, you rolled initiative too soon. Initiative is the game mechanic whose very purpose is to resolve first strike.
a) Can't ready outside of combat. Everyone rolls initiative after the doors have become open and starts on even ground at that point?
Roll initiative when the door is opened.
Now, putting aside the scenario you use as an example, I fully agree with the others on how to resolve a situation where two readied actions trigger simultaneously. A readied action reduces your position in the initiative order, so both these characters now have the same initiative position. The rules for tied initiative rolls are clear: the character with the higher modifier goes first, and if there is still a tie it should be resolved with an opposed roll.
|
|
Roll initiative when the door is opened.
Agreed, this is how I run "open the door" encounters, even if bashing/pushing is required. :)
.. the character with the higher modifier goes first ..
Also agreed, I believe this is RAW/RAI based on the quotes below. It's probably convoluted, but parties could get into this situation. Maybe the door opened, initiative was rolled, and the door was closed, and both sides are buffing for a few rounds, the readies are declared and a mook opens the door.
Here's the RAW references I have for this - which is when you ready, "your initiative result changes":
Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.
If two or more combatants have the same initiative check result, the combatants who are tied act in order of total initiative modifier (highest first).
Bold emphasis is mine above. I fully believe in the case of readied actions, the wizard with the higher base modifier acts first, and this seems to be supported by RAW.