Hello Everyone!
I’m going to be playing in a local convention soon and it has been a long time since I have played PFS. So, I’m looking for some help from you kind folks on my versatile witch. Specifically, any advice on a Witch’s Patron and traits. Thanks in advance!
Background Can the Magnificent is a failed court jester. He tried so hard but he just isn’t that funny (and his magic was terrible too). When he left court in disgrace, he stole the magistrate’s pet dodo and took it has his familiar.
Can's personality is similar to DC's Joker but far less evil and just about as crazy. His witch hexes are flavored as pranks and tricks that he pulls from his "magic bag". He is a member of the Sczarni faction.
CG Male Human Witch 1
Favored Class: Extra HP
Witch's Familiar: Bill the Dodo (+4 Initiative)
Witch Patron: ??????
AC: 13 (17 with MA), HP: 7
Fort: +2 Ref: +3 Will: +4
Initiative: +7
Abilities:
Strength = 7
Dexterity = 16
Constitution = 14
Intelligence = 16 (18)
Wisdom = 14
Charisma = 7
Feats:
1 - Extra Hex
H - Extra Hex
Traits:
Reckless
???????
Hexes:
Charm, Fortune, Slumber
Hex DC: 15
Skills: 7 Ranks (Bonus)
Acrobatics 1 (+8), Craft Gags 1 (+8), Know Arcana 1 (+8), Know History 1 (+8), Know Nature 1 (+8), Know Planes 1 (+8), Spellcraft 1 (+8)
Spells/Day:
0 - Guidance x3, Message
1 - Cure Light Wounds, Mage Armor
Yeah, fortune really isn't worth it IMO.
As for patrons, the questions above are quite apt. Personally I consider haste to be too important to skip on an arcane caster, so Time or Agility are decent choice. I think Time is the better of the two.
Instead of fortune, I'd take misfortune. Then I'd take evil eye.
As for patron, what do you want to be able to do? Heal? Blast? I can't recommend a patron without knowing your goals.
My goal for this character is to be as versatile as possible. Evil Eye/Slumber/Misfortune is a great combo, but I don't want to focus all on SoS hexes.
I would like my Witch's Patron to reflect the thief aspect of this character. That might be fun. In general, flavor and RP are more important to me than pure OP...but at the same time, I want pass my dice rolls more often than not.
I hope this clarifies things some. Any suggestions?
Yeah, fortune really isn't worth it IMO.
As for patrons, the questions above are quite apt. Personally I consider haste to be too important to skip on an arcane caster, so Time or Agility are decent choice. I think Time is the better of the two.
Is there another buff-type hex you would suggest instead of fortune?
Well, uh, take the Seeker trait from Ultimate Campaign. It will give you Perception as a class skill.
Since you already took a trait to give Acrobatics as a class skill, I would suggest the Agility domain. You'll get Jump, Cat's Grace and Haste in your first six levels.
Also, with a CON of 14 you should have 8 HP at level 1. I would suggest taking the +1 HP favored class bonus as well, for 9 HP to start.
Also, Cantrips are Unlimited use, so putting Guidance in three slots is unnecessary. Pick two other cantrips.
More to come...
Well, uh, take the Seeker trait from Ultimate Campaign. It will give you Perception as a class skill.
Since you already took a trait to give Acrobatics as a class skill, I would suggest the Agility domain. You'll get Jump, Cat's Grace and Haste in your first six levels.
Also, with a CON of 14 you should have 8 HP at level 1. I would suggest taking the +1 HP favored class bonus as well, for 9 HP to start.
Also, Cantrips are Unlimited use, so putting Guidance in three slots is unnecessary. Pick two other cantrips.
More to come...
Great Suggestions! I don't know how I missed that about the Cantrips...need more caffeine
Is there another buff-type hex you would suggest instead of fortune?
The healing hex really isn't bad, though I am a big fan of the flying one. At low level it is only feather fall, but eventually you get quite a few minutes of flight a day for free.
You know what you call somebody who can cast CLW once per day? A wand with 1 charge. Seriously, don't prepare that spell. Same with mage armor. Get a wand and until then learn to avoid taking damage (and use PA to buy wands). Against melee don't leave yourself exposed, against ranged learn to fall prone as a free action or use cover (or both). Then with those spell slots you freed up learn some spells that will do something.
Also, that strength score is crippling levels of bad, and you don't need that much wisdom. Fix that.
4/10, needs more work.
BTW, a 3 is designated party anchor, you are perilously close to being a party anchor. In many modules where your one trick won't work (slumber doesn't work against a ton of common enemies) you will be barely 2/10.
At level 1, with a fresh character, you have 150 GP to spend. I would suggest taking a potion of Cure Light Wounds (50 GP) if you are dead-set on being able to have some healing right out of the gate. Personally, I would not worry about it at all for your very first game unless you have the 50GP to spend.
I would also suggest a Scroll of Mage Armor. (25GP) Cast it from the scroll when you feel like you are approaching danger.
At level 1, with an INT of 18, you will be able to select 7 starting spells, for which you have two slots.
By all means select Cure Light Wounds and Mage Armor if you would like, but consider versatile spells like Command, Unseen Servant, Ill Omen, etc.
Since you have moved (if you agree with the above) Cure Light Wounds to a potion and Mage Armor to a scroll, you can now queue two more versatile spells instead, thus having your cake both on your plate and in your tum-tum.
Probably more to come...
Flavor wise, the trickery patron fits. Maybe deception, but you seem more lighthearted than that.
Trickery has some really good, fun spells. With an 18 INT, will my DC be high enough to make it worthwile?
The healing hex really isn't bad, though I am a big fan of the flying one. At low level it is only feather fall, but eventually you get quite a few minutes of flight a day for free.
Is there another buff-type hex you would suggest instead of fortune?
Flight would be something I would take at higher levels. I don't really need Feather Fall at lvl 1. Healing is a possibility though I don't like that you can only use it on each ally once per day.
Flight would be something I would take at higher levels. I don't really need Feather Fall at lvl 1. Healing is a possibility though I don't like that you can only use it on each ally once per day.The healing hex really isn't bad, though I am a big fan of the flying one. At low level it is only feather fall, but eventually you get quite a few minutes of flight a day for free.
Is there another buff-type hex you would suggest instead of fortune?
Getting flight out of the way early can't hurt. But yes, the healing one really is only an OH CRAP power more than anything else.
Honestly I'd probably find a different feat rather than extra hex.
Oh yeah, how did I forget cackle.
Spells/Day:
0 - Guidance x3, Message
You do realize you only have to memorize each cantrip once (4 different ones), and can cast them as many times you want during the day?
You don't need to memorize guidance 3 times, just once, and then cast it all you want.
So you should have 4 different cantrips memorized.
Ya, I know...my brain went back to 3.5 for a moment there. Same with the wrong HP. I was thinking that casters were d4 HD. Silly me...
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For your other cantrips, take stabilize. its not a touch spell so you can zot somoene to stabilize them from 30ft. It'll stop your allies from panicking.
What has been said about CLW is very true, dont bother preparing it, buy a CLW wand with 2PP (which you'll get from your first scenario), and then use that instead. You can basically keep it in your hand b/c you're not fighting in melee with a weapon anyway. For your first scenario borrow someone else's.
I would probably sacrifice wisdom or dex to get you some charisma. It'd fit with your Joker theme, that hes scary and weird, you could take intimidate and use magic device instead of craft, acrobatics, or knowledge: history. It is a good spell to have.
Just start keeping track of mobs which are immune to mind-affecting spells on a piece of paper. Oozes, undead, demons, etc. Slumber hex will be really harsh on fights for a few levels, basically a Save or Die spell.
Oh yeah, how did I forget cackle.
Ok. Am I missing something? Is crackle that good at lvl 1? Or, would it be more beneficial to take Charm to counter my low CHA?
From what I remember of PFS, Diplomacy is one of the most common checks for Faction goals and whatnot. Plus, I want to be useful in social situations as well as combat. I don't want to lose this character's versatility.
Som my current thoughts for hexes goes: Charm, Evil Eye and Slumber with Crackle taken at 2nd level. Fight taken at lvl 4 or 5.
Thoughts?
OK. Based on everyone’s excellent input, here is the revised version of this character...
Background: Can the Magnificent is a failed court jester. He tried so hard but he just isn’t that funny (and his magic was terrible too). When he left court in disgrace, he stole the magistrate’s pet dodo and took it has his familiar.
Can's personality is similar to DC's Joker but far less evil and just about as crazy. His witch hexes are flavored as pranks and tricks that he pulls from his "magic bag". He is a member of the Sczarni faction.
CG Male Human Witch 1
Favored Class: Extra HP
Witch's Familiar: Bill the Dodo (+4 Initiative)
Witch Patron: Trickery
AC: 12 (16 with MA), HP: 8
Fort: +1 Ref: +2 Will: +3
Initiative: +6
Abilities:
Strength = 10
Dexterity = 14
Constitution = 12
Intelligence = 16 (18)
Wisdom = 12
Charisma = 10
Feats:
1 - Extra Hex
H - Extra Hex
Traits:
Witty Repartee
Seeker
Hexes:
Crackle, Misfortune, Slumber
Hex DC: 15
Skills: 7 Ranks (Bonus)
Bluff (+6), Climb 1 (+1), Craft Gags 1 (+8), Know Arcana 1 (+8), Know Nature 1 (+8), Perception 1 (+7), Spellcraft 1 (+8)
Spells/Day:
0 – Detect Magic, Guidance, Message, Stabilize,
1 – Ill Omen, Unseen Servant
Items
Dagger, Scroll of Mage Armor x1, MW Tool (Perception), MW Tool (Bluff), 24gp
You need a Spell Component Pouch.
Other than that, much better.
I'm not a fan of taking Slumber without Evil Eye, especially if you do not yet have Accursed Hex, but I will chalk that up to personal preference.
Word of advice? Be verrrrry careful with your Dodo familiar. That familiar is also, with you being a witch, your spellbook. If the Dodo goes the way of the dodo, you are in big trouble.
Overall, however, I think you will find that you have MUCH more utility, versatility and staying power with this setup than you would have with your previous build.
I would have to disagree with the earlier posters who hated fortune, it is a great hex. My witch has 24 Int at level 4 and I still love the fact I can do it without the save most other hexes have. My teammates seem to love it also. Especially if you are not maxing out INT, I would take it before yet another hex that requires a save. Why do you need both slumber and misfortune so early anyway, they are both fairly hardcore save or sucks? That being said, I probably wouldn't take fortune or misfortune without cackle.
I've always found it better to be nicer to those one is advising, but to each his own.You know what you call somebody who can cast CLW once per day? A wand with 1 charge. Seriously, don't prepare that spell. Same with mage armor. Get a wand and until then learn to avoid taking damage (and use PA to buy wands). Against melee don't leave yourself exposed, against ranged learn to fall prone as a free action or use cover (or both). Then with those spell slots you freed up learn some spells that will do something.
Also, that strength score is crippling levels of bad, and you don't need that much wisdom. Fix that.
4/10, needs more work.
BTW, a 3 is designated party anchor, you are perilously close to being a party anchor. In many modules where your one trick won't work (slumber doesn't work against a ton of common enemies) you will be barely 2/10.
I've never found it better to be nice when blunt works better ;)
I gave good advice, while not diplomatic it was backed with reasons why the build was bad. Saying something could be better doesn't mean the same thing as saying something is bad. Could be better for many people means it isn't bad but there is some room for improvement (which results in small changes). Saying something is bad means there is a lot of work to be done, and maybe rethinking the basics might be in order (resulting in big changes). This build needed many changes, and the fundamentals of the build were pretty flawed. His current build is much better, I would say there is room for minor improvement but nothing critically important. 8/108/10 is would party with, solidly built.
To get it to 9 or 10 would require too much editing of the character and take away what the OP wants. It would also result in the cookie cutter witch that everybody knows already. Its better than half the PFS characters I've adventured with so its good enough stopping point. Only change I can see is unseen servent, but idk what i would trade that with, ray of enfeeblement, snowball/mudball, obscuring mist, or reduce/enlarge person sound better than the servant.
The Shadow patron does look pretty awesome. It was my first intention, but ultimately gave it up for plague so I could raise dead. It has been a long time since I played someone who could.
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I've got a level 10 witch and I've never picked up nor cared about Evil Eye either, and still done just fine.
As a witch, the only concern you really want to have is how to deal with bad guys who are unaffected by mind-affecting effects (undead, constructs, etc). Misfortune/cackle works pretty well as long as it keeps going.
Also worth noting is that to use cackle, you actually need to use it on the same round as the initial hex, because otherwise that initial hex ends at the start of your next turn (and thus can't be affected by cackle anymore).
Try not to use Slumber every round! It's rather yawn worthy. In fact I'd advise you to not take it at
all. It's pretty much always the best option and a wee bit OP.
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Witches are brilliant and I like your jester concept, you will do fine with the above advice.
My only concern is your Dodo familiar. You are aware how they died, yes? The last attribute they would give is +4 to Initiative. They were famous for standing around doing nothing, literally sitting ducks. In fact, I'd be tempted to say it is the one familiar which does not grant the Alertness feat either, but that would be mean.
Your familiar has a wealth of negative attributes. It is enormous (1 metre tall, up to 50lb!), slow, stupid, can't fly, looks like food. Studies suggest it's big beak was quite good for territorial fighting, so the bonus of something like +2 to Fort might be better.
Try not to use Slumber every round! It's rather yawn worthy. In fact I'd advise you to not take it at
all. It's pretty much always the best option and a wee bit OP.
The problem with not taking slumber is what are you supposed to do to be effective at level 1? You aren't going to magically be awesome at combat. You aren't going to have the nifty school or bloodline bonus abilities that can contribute. Shoot a crossbow without feat support? Good luck with that. You don't have the spells to maintain effectiveness for very long (like 1 combat, maybe 2). The support hexes like fortune and ward are rather restrictive too. Misfortune is nice and all, but doesn't do much without the party doing the rest of the heavy lifting.
Slumber is a solid hex and there is nothing wrong with spamming it every round. Its no different in terms of yawn worthy than a level 1 barbarian one shotting everything by spamming power attack+rage (2d6+12 kills everything at level 1). Both have about a 70 percent chance of landing their attack after all. At least the barbarian can swing again if he misses.
Which brings me to my next piece of advice. Pick up accursed hex feat ASAP.
Well you could try misfortune, fortune, Ward, evil eye...
If you do spam slumber your DM will probably hate you, not to mention the rest of the party! It's OP imo.
Accursed is very good but take note that it only effects a few hexes.
Oh yeah, how did I forget cackle.Ok. Am I missing something? Is crackle that good at lvl 1? Or, would it be more beneficial to take Charm to counter my low CHA?
From what I remember of PFS, Diplomacy is one of the most common checks for Faction goals and whatnot. Plus, I want to be useful in social situations as well as combat. I don't want to lose this character's versatility.
Som my current thoughts for hexes goes: Charm, Evil Eye and Slumber with Crackle taken at 2nd level. Fight taken at lvl 4 or 5.
Thoughts?
It's the cackle+evil eye combo that I really like. You can take down the save on the target and they lay them out with a spell (or slumber). Stacking in misfortune can make it flat out brutal, though it takes some set up.
Fair warning up front though, you are going to a glass cannon. Play very cautiously because witches lack most of the defensive spell options that sorcerers/wizards have.
Well you could try misfortune, fortune, Ward, evil eye...
If you do spam slumber your DM will probably hate you, not to mention the rest of the party! It's OP imo.
See I never really got that. The rest of the party can one action drop enemies, usually through damage, but suddenly when the witch does it with an all or nothing effect people lose their minds.
Martials that are built right do it with a big hit, a flurry of attacks, or whatever their particular schtick is. Wizards or sorcerers blast or color spray taking out mobs with one action. Clerics/Paladins use holy power and martial prowess to smite their enemies. Pet classes use their pets/eidolon to supplement their martial and caster abilities. All of those examples can one round drop one or more enemies. Usually with less restrictions than the witch has.
The witch can slumber once per target. The target can save and then you have nearly nothing. At level one the success rate is similar to a martial character swinging his sword. The difference is the martial can swing again if he misses. The witch cannot without feat investment. The witch can't use their best ability against a large number of common monsters (contructs, undead, vermin, ect). Against those enemies a witch has almost nothing.
Now when witches get Ice Tomb... bleh I hated dealing with that. Luckily at that level I don't feel too bad, lots of stuff doesn't instant die (though many things do) and if the party doesn't lock down things with 1 round actions, the results can be messy.
Any other questions, OP?
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Thanks again everyone for your excellent advice!
I think I’m going to go Crackle, Fortune, Misfortune for my hexes. I want to have a solid buff at my disposal. If I don’t like that lineup, I can always switch something out for Slumber for the next game.
Also, I completely forgot that I have an old lvl 1 PFS fighter with one session under his belt. I can switch the fighter for the witch, spend two PP for a wand of CLW, and use some of the reward gold to buy something to carry my familiar in...but what?
Anyways, the dodo is a small sized bird and has Weapon Finesse as a feat (yay, I guess). It's only positive stats are CON and DEX. Ya...it's terrible...but so much fun!
To bad familiars don’t get feats. Otherwise, I could have the dodo make Ride checks w/ Mounted Combat. Haha.
/end rant
I was going to carry the dodo under my arm (purely for RP hijinks) but isn’t there a familiar pouch mundane item or such designed for wizards to store their familiars?
Also, if I carry the dodo and/or keep it in a sack, would sharing space rules apply since the dodo is a small sized critter?
To carry a real Dodo around you need a wheelbarrow, but this is a silly made-up familiar so the standard Familiar Satchel should do. 25gp, 6lb excluding the bird bigger than a turkey you are wrangling around.
So...56 pounds for a fat, extinct turkey?
Works for me.
There was something else that gives a +4 to initiative, but I don't remember what it is.
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Why the 18 Int at 1st level? You're burning LOT of ability points for something that is of minimal use until you are higher level. Start with a 17 (freeing up points for other stats like the OMG important in PFS Charisma), and bump it to 18 at 4th level when you get your free increase.
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There was something else that gives a +4 to initiative, but I don't remember what it is.
A Greensting Scorpion isn't funny though. And it's a bit of a standard choice.
I am guilty myself, My sorcerer has one melded into his Varisian tattoo, and that's the end of that. Besides, Can the Magnificent's a failed jester - now he failed for not being very amusing, but he tried - nobody laughs at the optimised Scorpion familiar.The mighty Dodo on the other hand...
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There are many ways to make a witch good. There are a few things to keep in mind. First you don't need that much Str to carry around caster equipment. So dumping there Str will not affect you very much. Just let the muscles of the group carry around the stuff you find. Two illusions are just a bad idea. A lot of high CR monsters have true seeing as a constant effect. That includes but not limited to most outer planer above a CR of 10. That means by level 6 you could encounter monsters with true seeing up all the time. Three DC are king for casters. You will want your Hex, and Spell. To have as high of a DC as you can possible get. Before level 6 you will not even notice it just yet. Past that point you will see a sharp increases in monster saves across the board. By the time your fighting CR 11 monsters you will see there low saves in the 10 to 15 range and there high saves in the 15-20 range.
Favored Class: Skill Point
Witch's Familiar: Bill the Dodo (+4 Initiative)
Witch Patron: Deception, Insanity, Spirits, or Time,
AC: 11 , HP: 8
Fort: +2 Ref: +1 Will: +2
Initiative: +9
Abilities:
Strength = 8
Dexterity = 12
Constitution = 14
Intelligence = 18 (20)
Wisdom = 10
Charisma = 8
Feats:
1 - Improved Initiative
H - Extra Hex
Traits:
Pragmatic Activator
Destined Diplomat
Hexes:
Crackle, Misfortune,
Hex DC: 16
Skills: 8 Ranks (Bonus)
Acrobatics 1, Craft Gags 1, Diplomacy 1, Know Arcana 1, Know History 1, Know Planes 1, Spellcraft 1, Use Magical Devices 1,
Spells/Day:
0 – Detect Magic, Light, Message, Stabilize,
1(DC16) – Command, Ray of Enfeeblement
There was something else that gives a +4 to initiative, but I don't remember what it is.A Greensting Scorpion isn't funny though. And it's a bit of a standard choice.
I am guilty myself, My sorcerer has one melded into his Varisian tattoo, and that's the end of that. Besides, Can the Magnificent's a failed jester - now he failed for not being very amusing, but he tried - nobody laughs at the optimised Scorpion familiar.The mighty Dodo on the other hand...
There is also the dinosaur Compsognathus - but, I have never seen the point of dinos in a non-prehistoric fantasy setting.
The rabbit from animal archive gives +4 initiative IIRC.
The rabbit from animal archive gives +4 initiative IIRC.
Hmmm...I see the Rabbit in the description of the product but it's not on the SRD. Can any confirm or deny this?