| DungeonmasterCal |
This has probably been asked before, but if so I've not seen the answer to this question. If a rogue or monk (or another class that receives Evasion or Improved Evasion) is trapped in such a way as to prohibit movement or enough space to avoid the explosion, how does the character evade it? Say for instance in a 10' wide, 20' deep pit. There simply isn't anywhere to duck and/or cover.
| Gauss |
Being unconscious does not stop you from making reflex saves although it makes success much harder.
On the flipside, being unconscious does stop you from using Evasion. If you are helpless you cannot use Evasion.
Being in a 10' wide, 20' pit does not stop you from using evasion (you are not helpless).
Think of it this way: They duck behind their shield/cloak/backpack/whatever or are just plain lucky.
- Gauss
| Gauss |
Jamie Charlan, the problem with that is that D&D/PF has always been vague about damage suffered. It does not get into specific wounds and any attempt to do so beyond GM description has always seemed to be met with resistance.
That isn't to say there is not a place for that in RPGs but it does not seem to be something that most people want in their D&D/PF.
D&D/PF is built upon the idea that a character can stare death in the face (sometimes literally) and survive. The "chunky salsa rule" runs contrary to that.
For those people that want that sort of game, that is what house rules and optional rules are for. :)
- Gauss
| fretgod99 |
If a Rogue is in a pit with nowhere to go and Fireball is cast on her, why should evasion work any differently in that situation when it does when the Rogue is standing in open space and is in the middle of a Fireball's blast radius? In one, you're in a pit with nowhere to go and nothing to get behind. In the other, you're in open ground with no time to go anywhere and nothing to get behind.
Evasion doesn't mean "move quickly out of the AoE". The Rogue is in the same place before and after the spell goes off in both situations. Why should the Chunky Salsa Rule apply when the Rogue is in a pit but not when she's, quite literally, standing in the center of a giant ball of fire?
Heck, how do any characters avoid any damage when they're standing in the middle of a giant ball of fire?
Lincoln Hills
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Evasion is meant to be one of the few areas where non-spellcasters just plain do something too awesome to be possible. In the same way a fighter can keep fighting after being injected with a gallon and a half of poison from a Colossal bug (despite the fact that, toxic or not, the hydraulic pressure alone should have blown up his heart), and a barbarian can simply be too manly for mere knife-wounds to injure him, evasion seems to combine momentarily-superhuman reflex speed, perfect placement and dumb luck. Taking cover behind his cape (which in a more item-damage-oriented game would be incinerated Looney-Tunes style), using the blast shadows of his buddies as momentary shelter, kung-fu-leaping around the incoming lightning... I once evaded dragon breath and waved away the "how'd you do it" by claiming the mining tunnel had ceiling joists and I'd simply combined the world's fastest chin-up and abdominal crunch. "It's a shame your character didn't survive to see it - it was very impressive."
| Kayerloth |
This has probably been asked before, but if so I've not seen the answer to this question. If a rogue or monk (or another class that receives Evasion or Improved Evasion) is trapped in such a way as to prohibit movement or enough space to avoid the explosion, how does the character evade it? Say for instance in a 10' wide, 20' deep pit. There simply isn't anywhere to duck and/or cover.
The problem here lies in abstraction of the system not mixing with the last bit of your title and associated underlying assumptions. In the abstract system of D&D combat rules there is almost NEVER 'no where to run' or otherwise avoid incoming damage even if the only "logical" explanation is luck and divine intervention. Your example even is no where near worst case scenario. It could be an Ogre bound and blindfolded while squeezed into a 5x5 oubliette and many would say the Ogre still gets a saving throw. After all he is still conscious and capable of, albeit highly restricted, movement and could definitely benefit from some luck, divine intervention and maybe who knows his great, great, great grand mamma had a romantic fling with a Fire Giant. If not abstracted this way then combat will rapidly become much, much more deadly as it becomes rapidly much more 'realistic' and much less fantastical. And when you get right down to it less D&D where the ability to make a save and survive is very literally a basic assumption built into the bedrock of the entire system.
| Zog of Deadwood |
IIRC, if a PC is held or sleeping (i.e., helpless), they get a Reflex save but they are treated as if their Dexterity were 0 rather than whatever it normally is, losing any bonus and suffering a -5 penalty.
But HOW exactly they do it? Well, first off, it helps a lot if you assume that a Fireball spell or a red dragon's breath is not a homogenous mass of flame but is made up of swirling streamers and currents of fire interspersed with small pockets of relative safety. Likewise, a Lightning Bolt spell or a blue dragon's breath need not be a single straight bolt of electricity but could be described much more like the force lightning projected by a Sith in the Star Wars universe. It could be a mass of of tendrils snaking their way in the same direction, with small spaces between. Most characters making their Reflex saves against such spells are doing so by dodging the densest areas of fire or electricity, getting hit by as little of it as possible. A rogue or monk who successfully evades is dodging everything, contorting his or her body in such a way that they take no hurt at all. It isn't pure skill, though. Luck (for rogues) or force of will (for monks) must play a part, as it is possible to evade with a successful save even when asleep and unaware of the danger.
Even supposing a spell in which it were posited that the damaging medium was uninterrupted throughout, if a Reflex save would allow 1/2 damage, then Evasion in these cases could still be explained by saying something along these lines:Valeros watched Merisiel dive through the Wall of Fire ahead of them in a peculiar corkscrew motion while ducking her head and whipping her cloak about her. Her twisting motion was perfectly timed to momentarily create a personal vortex of air that held off the flames for the tiny fraction of a second she was within them. "C'mon, Valeros--see, it's easy." Behind her, the fighter studied the Wall and shook his head. "Maybe for you."
Evasion is, essentially, a superpower. It's okay to describe it in an appropriately dramatic way. This is especially true in that it is one of the more dramatic powers available to the classes generally most closely associated with it, so to underplay evasion is to underplay one of the more notable strengths of classes already too often undervalued.