Okay my GM is giving me grief on this and I want to see your opinion.
Ive proposed the spellstone:
Spellstones work like wands, have 50 charges, levitate around you like ioun stones, require a move action to locate and a standard action to activate. They are created with up a single spell up to 3rd level. Technically they can be created via Craft Wondrous but I have proposed to make it a stand alone Craft feat. The original version had the stones crafter specific, meaning that you cannot make them and give them to party members or sell them for profit (like wands). My GM orignially didnt like this because it would not be considered loot in the case of the crafters demise. To me that seemed trivial but if it is a big deal, I can make it have a command word like a wand (which technically, does not have to be written on the item but something discovered by research). Same creation cost as wands.
So a few highlights
1) Move action to locate (they spin around the caster)
2) Standard to activate
3) 50 charges - rechargable like a wand
4) Each holds a single spell up to 3rd level
My GM balked at the idea and it is my job to convince him. He asks why would anyone make wands? Well my counter:
1) Wands hold up to 4th level spells, spellstones are 3rd max
2) Wands can be made to give to anyone who can activate vis UMD or sold for a profit. Spellstones cannot be used by anyone but the crafter
3) If you had a wand in a handy haversack or tied to your belt, it would be a move action to retrieve and then standard to use. Same thing.
So my arguement is that the Spellstones are actually less effective (3rd spell lv max, crafter use only) than the wand. It is a flavor thing only.
Help me stack my argument or tell me why not (and no, just because or just because craft wand already exist does not count).
Just as a note, wands can't be recharged. When the charges run out they are worthless.
Im okay with that too. They can be non rechargable
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I don't really know how you'd convince your GM there as for the most part aside from being easier to make in that Craft Wondrous Item is a bit more desirable of a craft feat then Craft Wand, your item is on par or worse then traditional wands if you get rid of the recharge.
Perhaps you might be looking more to reflavor an actual wand then create a whole new type of similar and yet not really different thing.
I mean at least from what I'm seeing your making a wand that acts as an Ioun Stone for storage. Maybe you could just craft a wand that acts like that for another 50-100 gold.
Well two options:
Do it as a wand with a small cosmetic cost as Morgan stated.
Do it as a wondrous item 1/day use command word.
The wand would be unlimited uses a day but would run out and be useless
The wondrous item would be limited uses a day but unlimited "charges"
LazarX, can you give one reason to justify your statement? What makes Golarion any less acceptable to craft a magic item on? What is remotely negative flavor impact about them?
Its one thing to state negative statement but at least explain the justification for your claim.
I would also like to point out since those stones are in plane view they can be targeted and destroyed especialy since things that small would have low HP.
Absolutely correct. Anything that is visible is destroyable. However, I would think that it would have ac modifiers for size (tiny).
Had I been your GM I'd have you add "Craft Wondrous Item" to the prerequisites (and maybe CL 12th, like normal ioun stones), but otherwise treat it as a wand in EVERY mechanical way. The whole "hovering rock" thing would just be flavor.
I can't fathom for the life of me why your GM wouldn't allow for something like that.
"You can't do it because magic rocks don't exist in my campaign!"
It doesnt hold spell levels, it casts a specific spell to 3rd spell level like a wand.
They would have the same ac, hps, and hardness as the ioun stones do.
Crafter only made sense to me one because it was limiting and two because it seemed more initimate. Nothing but flair and an attempt to give concessions to my GM.
Had I been your GM I'd have you add "Craft Wondrous Item" to the prerequisites, but otherwise treat it as a wand in EVERY mechanical way. The whole "hovering rock" thing would just be flavor.
Now let me ask you this...if you make it a wondrous item AND a wand, what concessions would you give back? I mean technically you are asking for two feats to create an item that either feat could do under RAW.
You could have these require both the craft wand and craft wondrous item feats. That would keep wands desirable (only one feat, plus the afore mentioned bonuses) and still aloow you to have the charged item.
Personally, I would go with Taason the Black said; anything built with craft wand has unlimited used per day, but limited total charges, while wondrous items have unlimited total uses, but a daily limit.
As for the "why Eberron and not Golarion" argument...
At least, That's the way I see it
Why should there be concessions? Seems to me like I gave the player everything they asked for. Floating rocks that act like wands.
Adding Craft Wondrous Item is really only meant to act as a deterrence against people doing things like using Craft Wand to make "spellcasting chairs" or "wand shoes."
If I allowed a player to make "wand rocks" with just Craft Wondrous Item, then I've broken two feats. Craft Wand is now useless, and Craft Wondrous Item is now even more powerful.
So I compromised.
An alternative would be to change the name of the Craft Wand feat as well as the flavor of the wands, and leave the mechanics in their entirety alone.
In fact, I've already allowed this with Gilgeam, the gem mage, and his Scribe Scroll feat for one of my players.
Why should there be concessions? Seems to me like I gave the player everything they asked for. Floating rocks that act like wands.
Because I could make the item with either Craft wondrous or Craft Wand. So to make a pre-req of having to burn two craft feats when per RAW I could do it with one, seems like there should be something else added in.
While you wrote your last post, I was editing my above post to explain my reasoning a little more.
So, just to be clear, does the user of these spellstones have to actually HOLD one to use it? Or once they locate one zipping around their heads, then they can cast from it without touching it?
If the former, then I would treat it basically as a wand with some flavor. If the latter, that's a mechanical benefit in comparison to a wand because you can hold stuff in your hands while using the spellstone.
Adamantine,
Imagine a whirl of small fist sized black stones revolving around the caster about the speed of a brisk pushed bicycle tire. So the mage attunes to the stone (simple action to locate), reaches out to grab it (move action) from spinning and then calls on the power of the magic within (standard action).
Taason, in that case I really see no difference between these and a wand in terms of game mechanics.
So, having said that, as a GM I'd probably just say that if you want to fluff your wands this way, knock yourself out. But then I'd have them work the same way for anyone else too.
Why should there be concessions? Seems to me like I gave the player everything they asked for. Floating rocks that act like wands.
Adding Craft Wondrous Item is really only meant to act as a deterrence against people doing things like using Craft Wand to make "spellcasting chairs" or "wand shoes."
If I allowed a player to make "wand rocks" with just Craft Wondrous Item, then I've broken two feats. Craft Wand is now useless, and Craft Wondrous Item is now even more powerful.
So I compromised.
An alternative would be to change the name of the Craft Wand feat as well as the flavor of the wands, and leave the mechanics in their entirety alone.
In fact, I've already allowed this with Gilgeam, the gem mage, and his Scribe Scroll feat for one of my players.
Now why I dont see it rending craft wands useless is that the stones are uniquely bound to the caster. So you cant make it and sell it or give it to another to use. If you arent using it, its dormant. Wands anyone with a CMD roll can use it. So you find it on the corpse of the mage and its a black onyx worth....50g.
I just feel that two feats to do it is a bit much. If you have the Craft Soulstone, you arent making sellable and useable Wondrous items. And why Im not trying to argue for making Craft Wondrous even more powerful, the RAW say that you can make a 1/day 1st level spell wondrous item for 1 x 1 x 750 divide by 5.
And also please note, the scribe scroll feat for the listed gem mage one gets for absolute free for being a wizard where in this case, you care calling for two feats that are in no way free.
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I see no problem with these at all. I really don't mind if they are a "50 charges and done" item that can be used as much as you want daily or even if these were made to be a 3x/day with unlimited charges. Back in D&D 3.5 there were wands that were usable 3x/day with unlimited charges and they weren't too bad mechanically.
I don't know what the pricing would be for a 3x/day one but if it is reasonable I would like that.
While I would make this off limits for Golarion, I wouldn't forbid it from another campaign setting. The making of Ioun Stones has been lost on Golarion for some time, and this is indeed a very Ioun Stoney device!
Otherwise: Hack: Requires Craft Wondrous and Craft Wand, the spell to make it and levitate. Costs as per wand. (CL x SL x 50gp)
Wands are FIFTY CHARGES of a spell that just about anyone can use, and they don't provoke attacks of opportunity. Chill Touch, Ghoul Touch, etc... as long as it's not a ranged attack, wands are excellent little toys for commonly used spells, especially ones you don't want to prepare every day but still use frequently. Infernal Healing is now the most cost-effective HP per GP heal in the game when in a wand!
My problems with the item are the following:
While I have no problem if you want your 'wands' to be sticks, hats, or small kittens (such description is up to you, especially if you make it! It's your item for pete's sake!), mechanically it should be functioning as a wand in every aspect. (It shouldn't somehow be better than the existing standard because, dangit I thought of it!)
The versatility that craft wonderous gains has already been detailed so I shall leave that. (yes Ravingdork has already described the shoes that can cast spells on command!) (Familiars HO! As they can GREATLY benefit from this with skill points in UMD, obviously appendaged ones do seem to get better with it).
There is also a problem if ANYONE can use the item, suddenly I can have ravens with stones flying above their head casting fireball from 400 ft away. (basically replicating the ability that improved familiars can have (Appendages and flying, Looking at you imp!) Without spending a feat for improved familiar!) Although there might be some that do have the appendages necessary to make this happen already.
And on the chance that I did accept this item as is...(As I may be in the middle of an adventure path) as the GM should I be tweaking some of the npc's that the party encounters to be using these instead of wands?
The used only by creator raises the problem of, (what do I do if some of my npc's want to try and use this cool item my player has come up with and is now in the world!!) Zap them with it, and when they finally get it tell them that they found a magic rock! Worth.... NOTHING! (But it sure did a great job blasting Frank!) (There is no way to emulate this even with Use Magic Device!!!) The use of the item seems to be similar to that of arcane bonded items, paladin/antipaladin bonds, magus black blades in that they only work for the person they are 'bonded with'. With no ability for another person to imitate! (Leaving the soul swap/polymorph/mind meld arguments to the side)
I do appreciate the numerous suggestions that people have brought to the discussion, (The gem mage is pretty cool!! (And that the gem's function exactly like scrolls.
Does that mean another wizard can activate your 'gems' and use them?? Or is it a 'gem mage' only thing??
(I my opinion the 50 charges wonderous item breaks away from the item creation rules that give examples such as the... three times per day the item can do bleh, for a wonderous item) Especially as it is replicating the vast majority (3/4 if you just count spell levels, not including the # of spells!!) Of another feat!
One part I also think should be brought up, if they float around your head, when you release them where do they go?? Back to floating? Does drawing them provoke AoO? Seems far better than a wand at that point (where one has to either drop them, put them away (maybe take quick draw!!))
My apologies for the verboseness of some of my points. (And the rambling... and a few of those arguments, hope they dont come across as strawmen.)
Im fine with making them usable by others. As I said, initially I thought it would be a handicap being that one can make wands to sale or give to his party members and this was a self only creation. If it is not perceived that way, remove that part of it.
Drawing them back would provoke an AOO unless you make a concentration check. Where do they reside? It depends on the caster. Some may have them in a bag, some may wear them as ornaments on their cloak/robe/etc. So make a concentration check when you want them to be done if you are foolish enough to wish to recall them in the midst of melee. After all, if you are the BBEG and up in my grill as a spellcaster, I would MUCH rather you spend your action hitting my 750gp creation than my feeble self.
It seems the majority that speak of it think it should be treated as a wand with flair. Im fine with that. Some have spoken about having craft wondrous as a prereq. Im fine with that even though I do think it is a bit heavy since one is having to get craft wondrous for basic flair since it does the same as craft wand. Now the million copper piece question....would it be craft wand with the spellstone being a spinoff or would you take craft wondrous -> craft spellstone?
But I think I see your agenda here. All of this is a round about way to get wands and wondrous items out of one feat. You can sell this to your GM, fine, but expect no sympathy, nor support from my chair.
No I dont think you see my agenda here. And frankly, Im not concerned about your chair either.
Wondrous item feat can create multiple slot items. Wands can create items that any joe can use that can manage a UMD roll. I was talking about basically a one type of item, non sellable and non transferable to others for the cost of a feat initially. What is the difference with making multiple level 1 scrolls and putting them in a handy haversack or making a spellstone except for the scribe scroll is a FREE feat to all wizards? You use your move action to get it and a standard to use it. Sound familiar? It would do the same exact thing as Craft Wands systematically except...OMG...add some flair.
It doesnt hold spell levels, it casts a specific spell to 3rd spell level like a wand. <snip>Yes I understood that, but the difference between 50 charges of Mage Armor on a wand and ioun stone that stores 50 Mage Armor is essentially ... method of activation.
Correct except this would activate as per a wand. Same standard action. Same move action to acquire it.
My opinion is while it's a fine concept, your GM didn't shine to it and we aren't/don't need to change his mind for you.
Does that mean another wizard can activate your 'gems' and use them?? Or is it a 'gem mage' only thing??
Anyone capable of using scrolls can use the gems. The same rules and checks apply, though it might be described as attuning yourself to the gem rather than interpreting the script. It's literally just a change of description. All of the mechanics are EXACTLY the same.