Because gripplis are really adorable


Advice

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I have my heart set on playing a grippli in an upcoming home brew with my friends, but I don't know what classes are good for the little guys. The other two players haven't chosen what they're going to be yet. I just like to plan ahead. I don't want to be a rogue, ninja, or ranger, so, even if those would be ideal choices, I don't want to be them. Any advice is welcome. This isn't necessarily asking for builds, though if a specific build would suit a grippli, then I'm all ears, it's more of a "this class, this archetype (if any), and why it's good for gripplis. Thanks in advance!


Maybe an alchemist, inquisitor or some sort of rapier wielding duelist? Alchemists are mentioned in the fluff and they get an archetype while they got good stats for a ranged inquisitor. They also have a trait that gives them a social bonus when they wield rapiers.

A swamp druid would also be cool conceptually in my opinion. Making them a druid seems like it would make them doubly strange and mysterious and the archetype grants a lot of useful abilities. I actually went through the race guide a while ago and stated up an idea for a grippli rapier wielding fighter, though I didn't get anyone's input on how viable it actually is.

Grand Lodge

Staying away from rogue, ninja, and ranger I would suggest either Druid, Dex based warrior, monk, or build into getting the Dervish dancer feat. I can't really give a good reason "why" other than druid and monk work well with the bonuses and the monk works good with a few of it's traits. I also like the mental image of this 1.5 foot tall frogman murderslaughtering everyone...

Oh alchemist might work as well. it actually has a racial class archetype for it.


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You should make a Grippli bard.

Why?

Kermit. Nuff said.


I don't get why anyone would play a grippli alchemist; their stats are all in the wrong places. An archery inquisitor is a good idea, I'll look into that.

My first thought was actually a duelist, but other than the DEX bonus, could that really work? I love the image of a little tree frog dude yelling from knee height "fight me!"

Anything else?


+Dex/Wisdom, -str. Caster cleric or druid? Small size and negative strength makes it hard to be up in the front smashing peoples faces and even hurts bows. Dervish Dance gets around it, if that's an interest.


I've read many times on these forums that Druids, and clerics to a lesser extent, were best when a blend between melee and magic, not focused on one. Then again, I could be wrong.

Since cleric has come up, it's sort of a thing that I almost always (now is no exception) play a lawful evil character in a good party. Everyone always has fun with it, and so do I. I thought I'd put that out there in case that makes a cleric a more viable option than I think it might be.

Liberty's Edge

Small size is an advantage for any kind of spellcaster, really.

Bonuses to AC and attacks are great, as is dark vision. The downsides of smaller weapons and lower str doesn't really matter if you cast spells for a living.

Druid is a possibility, with the wisdom bonus, but I'd go with empyrean sorcerer, personally.


The empyreal sorcerer goes against the lawful evil fluff, doesn't it? Asides from that, it could be good.


I Hate Nickelback wrote:
The empyreal sorcerer goes against the lawful evil fluff, doesn't it? Asides from that, it could be good.

No, bloodlines don't have requirements for alignments. Besides, Empyreal is about insight. 'pure willpower' is what it calls it.


Recap. So, my options so far are;

1. Empyreal sorcerer

2. Monk

3. Caster Druid

4. Caster Cleric

5. Alchemist (?)

6. Duelist (?)

That's not in any particular order, though 5 and 6 don't really seem possible at all.


MrSin wrote:
I Hate Nickelback wrote:
The empyreal sorcerer goes against the lawful evil fluff, doesn't it? Asides from that, it could be good.
No, bloodlines don't have requirements for alignments. Besides, Empyreal is about insight. 'pure willpower' is what it calls it.

It's the associated bloodline with celestial.

I said against FLUFF. I never said that there was a rules reason I couldn't do it. Sure, I could RP the inner struggle of good vs evil, but I just prefer being evil.

Grand Lodge

Well, have you considered Urban Barbarian, with Dervish Dance, or an Agile Weapon?

You would have to drop the Lawful part, but would be entertaining.

No matter what you pick, carry some Nets.

They are just nice to have.


As always, BBT has amazing advice.

That's a good idea, except for the non lawful part. Could I still believably be loyal to the party? And why urban barb rather than another archetype?


because an urban barb's rage can increase their DEX score. Combo with Agile weapon and you've got fun times.


Urban will allow controlled rage, to up your dex stat while you rage


Nevermind, I just read urban, that would be good. And the flavor is hilarious!

I've been considering going into DD somehow. The natural STR bonus will eventually offset my potentially poor STR. Barb 2/Empyreal Sorc 2/DD? Would that be terribad?

EDIT: Ninja'd

Grand Lodge

Urban Barbarian can boost it's dexterity during rage.

So, using Dervish Dance, or an Agile weapon, your attacks and damage are based around dexterity.

This works well with the stat modifiers of the race.


If you think you can get your hands on a large scimitar you might consider a dervish dance druid. Elementals can take humanoid forms so they can use appropriately sized weapons. The dex bonus for air and fire elementals maxes out at +6 for a large elemental so you don't need to worry about finding a huge scimitar unless you want the extra reach.

The scimitar just needs to not be in your hands when you change shape, and since you'll be shaping for 6 hours at a time when you first get access to elemental forms that shouldn't be a problem.

It's not as early a dex boost as Urban Barbarian, but you can get reach and, well, you're a full caster.


steal an idea from ravingdork and play a grippli cavalier riding a giant frog?

Grand Lodge

Grippli Gunslinger works well.


Had a friend play a dwarf that rode a giant purple frog. He constantly had to justify it, "Purple is too a manly color, because he's poison!"

Or, you could play a Grippli Beastmaster Cavalier Order of the Cockatrice (to get perform, and to fit in with the self aggrandizing personality type you described playing) named Sir Mitt DeFrog, and his trusty Steed, Miss Piggy. (small gets a boar at 4th level)

Grand Lodge

Purple is the color of Royalty, worn by powerful Kings.


Jason Rice wrote:

You should make a Grippli bard.

Why?

Kermit. Nuff said.

It's not easy being green...


BBT wrote:
Purple is the color of Royalty, worn by powerful Kings.

Oh... aye lad. Just keep tellin yerself tha'. While you're doin it, I know a couple o' me kin who can make ye clothes of golden thread too.

Grand Lodge

TGMaxMaxer wrote:
BBT wrote:
Purple is the color of Royalty, worn by powerful Kings.
Oh... aye lad. Just keep tellin yerself tha'. While you're doin it, I know a couple o' me kin who can make ye clothes of golden thread too.

FDR wore a dress when he was a child.

Be amused and educated!

Sovereign Court

I actually liked the idea of the Mogogols, more-so than the Gripplis, as they're more of a swamp frog and not a tree frog. You can find the race via google and it's pretty balanced, it's homebrew though. Frogs are cool though.


Unfortunately, gunslinger is banned.

I'm leaning towards druid honestly. Can a caster focused druid be good? I honestly don't know anything about that class, so all advice is welcome.


I Hate Nickelback wrote:

Unfortunately, gunslinger is banned.

I'm leaning towards druid honestly. Can a caster focused druid be good? I honestly don't know anything about that class, so all advice is welcome.

Full casting is pretty much always good. Lay down battlefield control, maybe summon in some animals, buff up your allies. Greater magic fang on the natural attack focused barbarian? Sounds cool to me!


The domains that a Druid can take sort of suck. I should take an AC, right?

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Yup, I'd suggest Druid. I've also played a monk/ninja grippli to some success in the past, but you don't want to be a ninja.

Edit:

I Hate Nickelback wrote:
The domains that a Druid can take sort of suck. I should take an AC, right?

Without a doubt you should take Wasp/Mantis/Beetle companion and ride it. Ain't nothing better than riding something below you on the food chain, yet a size or two larger.


I Hate Nickelback wrote:
The domains that a Druid can take sort of suck. I should take an AC, right?

Because of the way things scale, the AC falls behind later on and requires more buffing to stay relevant, but the domains are relevant from start to finish. I always take the AC, but I know some people aren't big into it. Of course you can always take animal domain or its subdomains and just get both... Its a personal preference thing.


only if its a giant frog or boar you ride

Scarab Sages

I Hate Nickelback wrote:

Unfortunately, gunslinger is banned.

I'm leaning towards druid honestly. Can a caster focused druid be good? I honestly don't know anything about that class, so all advice is welcome.

Storm Druids make great controller/blasters.

If you aren't sold on druids, Gripplis actually make pretty good Zen Archers. The racial climb speed makes it easy to jump/run up a wall or ceiling and shoot arrows from safety vs enemies on the ground.

Grand Lodge

Well, there are the Animal and Terrain Domains.

Also, there are Druid archetypes that give access to other Domains.


I'm pretty sold on druid.

If I started with a STR of 16, could I still make a suitable melee-ish druid? I want to be able to wild shape and smash stuff too, but not if I'll be terribly sub optimal at it.

Grand Lodge

An Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists would allow you to be a better melee PC, that focuses of Natural Attacks.

Caster may work better.

Also, a Nature themed Cleric works just fine, and can have access to the Animal and Terrain Domains linked above, along with others.


Hmm, ok. Thanks for the advice everyone, I think I'll read up more on druid archetypes, domains, and ACs. All the help was appreciated!

Grand Lodge

Also, there is this and this guide, that may be helpful.


One big advantage of domains is that you can skip Handle Animal and Charisma. If you have dumped charisma and no handle animal even the bonus for animal companions isn't adequate, but domains don't care. Summons automatically attack the nearest enemy to where they're summoned if not commanded otherwise and most utility summoning uses elementals who have languages you can learn to speak so you don't truly need the skill or stat if you're not summon focused and take a domain.

Since unless you go domain and dump charisma your only dump is int the skill points for handle animal are very expensive, especially for a nonhuman.

By going domain and going finesse/dervish dance (remember, elementals can have hands, you don't suffer encumbrance penalties for stuff that fuses with your body when you wildshape, and a lot of your gear is reduced weight for small size anyways) you can dump every stat that doesn't have a save associated with it.


I think you should build a Battletoads version on PF.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Sovereign Court

Druid works of course, though I usually prefer humans for druid - if you're going to spend most of your time wildshaped, an extra feat and skill rank help more than racial stuff that may or may not be applicable. Also, a strength penalty is usually the kiss of death for a melee character - combined with a 3/4 BAB, you're going to be a pretty big disadvantage compared to other frontliners.

If I were you, I'd go with a ranged Inquisitor of Gozreh. Some very interesting roleplaying possibilities there... Flowing Monk could also be an interesting option, especially if you combine Stunning Fist with the Toxic Skin alternate racial ability and a cool Style feat line.


Reynard_the_fox wrote:

Druid works of course, though I usually prefer humans for druid - if you're going to spend most of your time wildshaped, an extra feat and skill rank help more than racial stuff that may or may not be applicable. Also, a strength penalty is usually the kiss of death for a melee character - combined with a 3/4 BAB, you're going to be a pretty big disadvantage compared to other frontliners.

If I were you, I'd go with a ranged Inquisitor of Gozreh. Some very interesting roleplaying possibilities there... Flowing Monk could also be an interesting option, especially if you combine Stunning Fist with the Toxic Skin alternate racial ability and a cool Style feat line.

Low strength is far more a kiss of death for a medium BAB class without scimitar proficiency than for the druid.

Scarab Sages

I really hate that Dervish dance is the only feat to add dex to melee damage. I don't like that it's heavily tied to a specific deity and religion and it really doesn't make sense that you are able to be more precise with a heavy scimitar than a rapier or dagger.

It's a feat that is too good that was published for flavor reasons without regards to it's mechanics.


One thing with druids is that they have to be some variety of neutral, RAW, so lawful evil would be difficult.


A Grippli could make a pretty good Gunslinger. I also had a ton of fun with a Grippli Summoner.


bodhranist wrote:
One thing with druids is that they have to be some variety of neutral, RAW, so lawful evil would be difficult.

Lawful Neutral or Neutral Evil can be pretty lawful evil probably. I never got the whole always neutral thing myself.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Okay, maybe it's just me, but I dig the idea of a grippli psychic warrior wielding a polearm.

Rogue focused on using the rapier. Señor Frog, at your service, eh-gentlemen! Or get weird and use sickles or something. Okay, here's an idea: sickle-wielding grippli rogue turned Asssasin.


RJGrady wrote:
Okay, maybe it's just me, but I dig the idea of a grippli psychic warrior wielding a polearm.

I can dig it! But usually 3rd party isn't mentioned because its 3rd party. Psionics is a whole different list of suggestions.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Some are less cute than others.

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