Retraining

[Eric Saxon]

Is retraining going to be a part of PFS? Which parts will we be able to retrain? Hp? Traits? Feats? Class?

[Netopalis]

Eric Saxon wrote:

Is retraining going to be a part of PFS? Which parts will we be able to retrain? Hp? Traits? Feats? Class?

Currently, retraining is allowed so long as your character has not played a scenario as a level 2 or higher character. At level 1, you may retrain at will. Additionally, there is a boon available at certain conventions that will allow a full rebuild of a higher-leveled character.

[Eric Saxon]

I'm thinking more of the Ultimate Campaign.

[Haco]

You can retrain ALL your character: race, sex, faction, class, etc.

[Eric Saxon]

I'm talking at higher levels. Ultimate Campaign allows you to retrain things the question is will any of it become available to PFS.

[David H]

Won't know til the Additional Resources and/or Guide to PFS v5 comes out. Sometime by next week I imagine.

[John Compton]

I believe Mike has left most of these inqueries at "Let's wait and see when the new guide comes out." I suspect your questions will be answered then.

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

Which basically means Monday folks. We will know all on Monday. Which is only 5 days away.

[Eric Saxon]

Is Monday the day the PFS v5 coming?

[Hobbun]

Yes.

[SCPRedMage]

Eric Saxon wrote:

Is Monday the day the PFS v5 coming?

It's the day they're releasing the next version of the Guide on the blog, but it won't become effective until the 14th.

So we'll see the new rules on Monday, but they won't actually BECOME the new rules until the following Wednesday, the 14th.

That said, keep in mind that the Expert Trainer feat from Pathfinder Player Companion: Quests and Campaigns is currently a legal option. Considering that the feat would be absolutely worthless without Ultimate Campaign's retraining system, it's a safe bet that the retraining rules will be allowed, to some extent.

[Dylos]

Also keep in mind the the pathfinder society primer, which is supposed to be legal in it's entirety, has a vanity that effects retraining as mentioned in the Ultimate Campaign book.

[Purple Dragon Knight]

question about conversion: last time I played was 3 years ago and I converted my 3.5 character and changed his class; I just started playing Path Society again - can I completely rebuild my character again? Disclaimer: I have yet to read the Ultimate Campaign rebuild rules referenced in the Path Society Guidelines... but I get the feeling a full rebuild is no longer allowed...

[Taenia]

Full rebuilds are allowed until you play him at 2nd level, then it is locked in.

After that if you own a copy of ultimate campaign you may rebuild him using the rules presented in there and spending 1 PP/day of retraining.

Its all listed in the Guide to Society Play available for free here http://paizo.com/products/btpy84k4?Guide-to-Pathfinder-Society-Organized-Pl ay

[Paz]

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

question about conversion: last time I played was 3 years ago and I converted my 3.5 character and changed his class; I just started playing Path Society again - can I completely rebuild my character again? Disclaimer: I have yet to read the Ultimate Campaign rebuild rules referenced in the Path Society Guidelines... but I get the feeling a full rebuild is no longer allowed...

Has he ever been played as a Pathfinder RPG character? If not, then you can create him however you want; only the name, XP and faction need to stay the same. See the FAQ.

If he has been played as a Pathfinder RPG character, then you can still fully rebuild him with no penalty (if he's not been played at level 2), or by following the Ultimate Campaign rules (if he's been played at level 2+).

And welcome back!

[Avatar-1]

Dylos wrote:

Also keep in mind the the pathfinder society primer, which is supposed to be legal in it's entirety, has a vanity that effects retraining as mentioned in the Ultimate Campaign book.

What does it do?

[karossii]

Question; if a feat is taken at low levels (say first) as a prerequisite for other aspects of the build, and then later the same feat is gained for free via some source (class feature, etc.); can the original feat be retrained into another feat now?

Say Weapon Focus is taken as a first level fighter, and then other feats in the tree are selected at 2nd and 3rd levels. At 4th level the character, now a fighter 2/rogue 2, takes the rogue talent 'weapon training' which grants weapon focus. Could the first level feat be retrained into something else?

As another related question; what about proficiencies? Say the character started out with a first level feat of martial weapon proficiency (any weapon), and then took other feats or class abilities which required that proficiency as a prerequisite. Several levels later they take a level in a class that grants proficiency in all martial weapons. Could they now retrain out of the redundant feat?

[Jiggy]

I can't think of any reason why not.

[James Risner]

Jiggy wrote:

I can't think of any reason why not.

I also can't think of any reason not to also, but I wouldn't do it. I'd retrain away the feat it is a prereq, then retrain the 1st level that was a prereq into the other other one.

Example:
1st level Fighter 1 = IUS
2nd level Fighter 2 = Deflect Arrows (needs IUS)
3rd level Monk 1 = IUS and Dodge

Then retrain Deflect Arrows into Toughness and Retrain Fighter 1 into Deflect Arrows. Then you can retrain Toughness into something else.

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

Jiggy wrote:

I can't think of any reason why not.

This.

Unless the new build would not have been possible without the retrain.

[James Risner]

Andrew Christian wrote:

Unless the new build would not have been possible without the retrain.

Unfortunately the dev team has already responded to the "not possible without" with something similar to "the gold cost is similar to the cost of an item and as such is sufficient limiter to having an impossible build as a legal build."

I'm quoting from memory, but it shouldn't be hard to find the original.

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

James Risner wrote:

Andrew Christian wrote:

Unless the new build would not have been possible without the retrain.

Unfortunately the dev team has already responded to the "not possible without" with something similar to "the gold cost is similar to the cost of an item and as such is sufficient limiter to having an impossible build as a legal build."

I'm quoting from memory, but it shouldn't be hard to find the original.

I'll need an actual link to that. Because that has some pretty nasty implications.

[Jiggy]

Do you at least remember who said it, James?

[James Risner]

Jiggy wrote:

Do you at least remember who said it, James?

I thought it was Jason Bulmahn and I thought it was in an interview. But I just tried to locate it, and failed. So until it turns up maybe it is moot.

[karossii]

One more question, which I think (and hope) will be negative; say I get the same feat twice as a bonus feat (not a bonus, select any feat, but a specific bonus feat - such as Unarmed Fighter and Monk both specifically getting IUS free) - could I then retrain one of those feats into another feat?

[Tony Lindman]

I would not think so. In this case, the bonus feat is specifically named by the class as a feature. If it was not a choice you made, I do not think you can retrain it.

[Sniggevert]

Right, just like the Fighter gaining the 3 armor proficiencies for free at 1st level can not retrain any of those and he can retrain his actual bonus feats gained at later levels.

[Akerlof]

karossii wrote:

One more question, which I think (and hope) will be negative; say I get the same feat twice as a bonus feat (not a bonus, select any feat, but a specific bonus feat - such as Unarmed Fighter and Monk both specifically getting IUS free) - could I then retrain one of those feats into another feat?

I don't think so, they aren't really feats, they're class features. So, if the bonus feat is listed as one of the features that class is explicitly allowed to retrain, then you wouldn't be able to retrain it.

If you have an inquisitor with the Persistance inquisition, which gives you the Step Up feat as a bonus feat, you could retrain to the Fate inquisition which would eliminate the Step Up feat. But you wouldn't be able to retrain Step Up into Toughness because Step Up isn't a feat you get to choose, it's a feature of the Persistance inquisition.

[James Risner]

karossii wrote:

specific bonus feat

No.

UC wrote:

You must replace it with a feat that you could choose using that class feature.

[James Risner]

Jiggy wrote:

Do you at least remember who said it, James?

I never found who said it, but the Dev team has now FAQ it.

FAQ

Quote:

Retraining: Can I retrain a feat to replace it with a feat I didn't qualify for at the level I originally gained that feat?