I think the issue is you are working under the assumption that sneak attack is an optimal means of doing damage. You need to compare your damage to a full fighter archer to requires no tricks or precision dmage to fire about 6 arrows a round at lvl 11. With clustered shot they pretty much ignore dr.
Anyhow your guy should be fine.
If you're not level 10 yet, how on earth are you affording a +4 bow with the enchant that allows unlimited ammuntion? +4 alone is 32,000gp.
Also how are you getting +12 damage per hit (not including sneak attack)? The 3 from strength and a compound bow, and +4 from enhancements and what else?
Edit: Hmmm, Crosswind and I are on the same page. Interesting.
I think I'm missing part of your calculations.
On to hit, you have +6/+1 BAB, +4 bow, + 6 Dex, and + 1 for point blank, for +17/+12? I don't see where the other +3 came from.
Likewise, on damage, you have +3 Str, +4 bow, and +1 for point blank, for a total of +8.
Also, for rapid shot, you actually do the high BAB shots first (usually), so you'd "technically" be +17/+17/+12. If you drop a ki point for your extra attack, you'd be +17/+17/+17/+12. (I don't think it matters much in this case, though if you had a tripping or a blinding attack, it could be important.)
As far as whether the build is "broken"...this is just one side of the character. You don't mention the AC, saves, skills, etc. There are also a lot of environmental issues your character has to overcome: soft cover, total cover, concealment, lighting (does your ninja have darkvision?), shooting into melee (what about Precise Shot), etc.? Does your ninja provoke when you shoot in melee, so the bad guys can just stand next to you in difficult terrain and shut you down? How do you deal with DR?
I would never declare a build broken based on only a single aspect of the character. Sure, my 9th level fighter/rouge at full buffs attacks 4 times a round at +19/+19/+14/+14, does 1d6+10 with 4d6 sneak attack and crits on a 15 or better. On the flip side, however, if the stars align for the bad guys, she gets 1 attack at 1d6+4 against a critter that's immune to crits and has DR/something-she-doesn't-have.
As for would I allow it, heck yeah, I'd allow it. If it's legal, I'd have no problem with it in PFS games. In a home game, I'd only be concerned if the rest of the party constantly stood around and complained while your ninja did everything. :-)
Did you roll dice for your stats? I'm curious b/c the point buy would be about 57, assuming your racial bonus was in Dex and you put both your bonuses from leveling up in Dex and are not including some gear which increase your stats. That's a red flag for me which has not been mentioned by anyone else yet.
I suggest you post your complete build for a better idea of where your numbers are coming from. Also, any house rules (rolling for stats, bonus wealth, etc, would be useful to know).
I didn't think all of you would blatantly disregard the fact that I haven't disclosed all of my characters information for the purpose of preventing my OP to be longer than necessary, I was providing the calculations, which are all correct, to see if they would be eligible for your games. I really just wanted to jump straight to the point, but since you can't seem to make valid decision without knowing all of the details I will provide you with the build of my character. Give me a few minutes to type it up.
Unfortunately, the calculations didn't add up correctly based on the information you provided. That's what prompted the request for more information.
Also, just because a character is seemingly "reasonable" doesn't make it "legal" or "correct". If your 8th level fighter is only doing 2 attacks a round at +10/+5 for 1d8+2, but he's a ratfolk, I can't let you play it even though it clearly isn't overpowered.
I have a question how did your character get enough by 8Th lvl to afford his equipment? By damage out put not broken by wealth to level stradards shattered.
Are all your fellow players similarly receiving such benefits from your GM? Otherwise it would seem hes playing favorites. With as many bonuses as your GM appears to be giving you any notion of balance or overpowered should just be thrown out the window.
Is your DM named "Monty" perhaps?
So, to be serious. Yes, your character is way overpowered. But given your super-generous DM and his likely high powered game, it appears to be only a little broken.
Are all your fellow players similarly receiving such benefits from your GM? Otherwise it would seem hes playing favorites. With as many bonuses as your GM appears to be giving you any notion of balance or overpowered should just be thrown out the window.It's a solo campaign
Oh, you left out this extremely important fact. In that case, have fun, others have pointed out a few rule holes.
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Oh, you left out this extremely important fact. In that case, have fun, others have pointed out a few rule holes.Are all your fellow players similarly receiving such benefits from your GM? Otherwise it would seem hes playing favorites. With as many bonuses as your GM appears to be giving you any notion of balance or overpowered should just be thrown out the window.It's a solo campaign
^^ This. It's the height of silliness to ask if your exception-filled build for your one man campaign is over-powered.
On a different note, where did you get the ability to add your DEX to damage? Because normally you don't, and unless I missed something, there aren't many ways to do that.
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*** why should only melee fighters get to add their main ability score to damage? doesnt seem very fair to me
The simplest answer here is "Because ranged combatants can make more attacks in a round, and start getting them way sooner. Also, since they don't need to move into melee range, they full attack more often".
Archery is pretty well established as being one of the more powerful and effective martial attack forms, both in reliability and average damage per fight.
Huh, I guess my GM just allows it in his games, but i mean it makes sense, why should only melee fighters get to add their main ability score to damage? doesnt seem very fair to me
Because melee fighters aren't standing 100 ft away...
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*** why should only melee fighters get to add their main ability score to damage? doesnt seem very fair to meThe simplest answer here is "Because ranged combatants can make more attacks in a round, and start getting them way sooner. Also, since they don't need to move into melee range, they full attack more often".
Archery is pretty well established as being one of the more powerful and effective martial attack forms, both in reliability and average damage per fight.Archers are also significantly weaker than melee, and in just about any case if an archer is facing a melee attacker, the melee will win. 1) cuz he deals more damage, 2) he doesn't provoke AoO by attacking in melee.
Also most melee attacker don't necessarily NEED to make a FRA. and Archers, if going against opponents with any sense of strategy will not be ignored and left in the back so they can stand still and fire arrows.
Unless they can turn invisible and free-fire from range like a certain ninja mentioned up-thread.... Or if they shoot the melee guy and then walk away to stay out of his range and kite him til he dies, or if they use mounted archery, etc., etc.
They do more attacks per round and make up the big static damage of melee fighters through more chances to crit and multiple applications of smaller numbers. An archer can have two attacks at level one, 4 as early as level 6, and then starts getting cool ways to add damage or overcome damage reduction like Clustered Shots and Deadly Aim. They're also probably going to have higher DEX, increasing their chances of going first and full attacking right off the bat.
Archers are also significantly weaker than melee, and in just about any case if an archer is facing a melee attacker, the melee will win. 1) cuz he deals more damage, 2) he doesn't provoke AoO by attacking in melee.
Also most melee attacker don't necessarily NEED to make a FRA. and Archers, if going against opponents with any sense of strategy will not be ignored and left in the back so they can stand still and fire arrows.
Archers are weaker IN melee. An archer the top of a ridge, a melee fighter won't stand a chance.
Sense of strategy is available to both sides, that means: keep your archers shooting by taking some hits.
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Everybody Iv spoken with about this matter has always stated all of the feats an archer can take to be better. Now before you continue you're argument would you be so kindly as to state the feats that a fighter of the same level has access to?
No, because that would be stupid for me to post two builds, especially when there's multiple threads in place already discussing this in detail.
Archers get more full attacks, and can start attacking much earlier. They don't lose rounds quaffing potions to be able to deal with flying enemies, they don't have to move up to each enemy they want to attack, can even switch targets in the middle of a Full Attack action to shoot an enemy 100 feet away from the first one they were shooting, so they don't require all of their enemies to bunch up in convenient groups... They can full attack from the back of a moving mount without putting a single feat into it, allowing them to run away [i]while still full attacking[i]. Their ability to overcome damage reduction with clustered shots kicks in 5 levels earlier than the melee-equivalent penetrating strike.....I could go on, but there's lots of threads that do that for me. As it stands, right now, archer's who don't add their DEX to damage still sit high up on the DPS threads, and perform remarkably well in pretty much every published AP Paizo has out there. Adding in that DEX to damage would push them right over the top and solidify them as top performers, giving them damage nearly on par with firearms, but over twice the range in most cases. It doesn't matter how much damage a two-handed fighting barbarian warlord can do if he died 3 rounds before he ever had a chance of landing a hit on the archer.
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Either this is completely overlooked most of the time, or I found a loophole...4.) You can only take Combat Trick once. You appear to have taken it 4 times.After a little reading you can take it more than once, you can take rogue talent more than once and because you are only going into the pool of talents from the rogue talents list, instead of actually using that special ability its rule of only being able to select a talent once does not apply, HOWEVER because the ninja trick's rule DOES you cannot pick Rogue Talent: Bleeding Attack twice, because it totals up to the same ninja trick, thus choosing Rogue Talent: Combat Trick: Weapon Focus: Bows is not the same as choosing Rogue Talent: Combat Trick: Vital Strike
There is no Rogue Talent called Combat Trick: Weapon Focus.
There is only the Rogue Talent called Combat Trick, which can be used to pick up one combat feat of your choice. You didn't find a loop-hole, you are using a build that is not legal by the core rules.Moreover, Ninja's already have a Ninja Trick named Combat Trick, and they cannot use the Rogue Talent Ninja Trick to take any Rogue Talent that has the same name as a Ninja Trick, so you can't squeek by with that little trick either. You are stuck with only being able to take Combat Trick once ever if you're following the core rules.
... (+2 Story-based bonus)
...+4 Black Dragonwing Bow (GM generated Item)
...Ranged Dodge (GM generated feat)
This brings up an obvious question: what was the purpose of your original post?
You asked whether other GMs would allow the character at their tables, but you didn't disclose that your GM has created specialty items and feats just for this character. If your question was "could I play this character anywhere else?", you need to start off with "Hey, my last GM made up these feats and items. Here are the stats--will anyone else let me use these?"
If the question was "Is this character overpowered?", why would you even care? Clearly, your GM is OK with the character build, otherwise s/he wouldn't be creating feats and items and special rules for you. And if you GM is fine with the character, it honestly doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
So what exactly are you trying to ask here? We won't be able to give you an acceptable answer until we understand the point.
I have seen around or so post in the last day or so asking the similar questions for your solo, bird-shifting Ninja Archer. But as far as we board goers are concerned he is not legal by either RAW or RAI. Dex to damage with bows does not exist, and nearly impossible of most other Dex characters. So by RAW/RAI he would not be allowed in my games and for standard games, even high point buy or rolled stats, he is over powered for reasons above.
To OP:
W/ additional information I will answer your original questions.
Would you consider this build of Ninja-Archer broken?
For your home game it is not broken. Your GM is clearly OK w/ you using several house rules and is making the choice to ignore WBL limitations. Those are fine for house games, do what you and your GM like.
For PFS standards, yes, it is broken, for all the reasons mentioned by others.
As a GM would you allow it in your game?
No. I generally do not use "story based bonuses" or give out items so far above WBL. I would ask you to make appropriate changes to meet the same standards I hold my players to and it would then be fine. If I chose to allow this character in a game as is, I would use the same guidelines for the other characters and you should expect considerably stronger challenges.
I didn't think all of you would blatantly disregard the fact that I haven't disclosed all of my characters information for the purpose of preventing my OP to be longer than necessary, I was providing the calculations, which are all correct, to see if they would be eligible for your games. I really just wanted to jump straight to the point, but since you can't seem to make valid decision without knowing all of the details I will provide you with the build of my character. Give me a few minutes to type it up.
In the future you should expect GMs to ask you for the actual build when asking if the character is allowed in their games. An incorrectly built character is seen in the details, not the damage output. For instance, those final damage scores seem fine for my game, but the numbers that created them are not (increased ability scores and very powerful weapon). Good GMs always look at the details, b/c they have to do that to understand what is happening. :)
I hope that is useful, enjoy your game.
I wanted to chime in on this, and start by saying your character seems cool to me, and the main point is to have fun. If you are playing a character that has that many off RAW advantages and you gm is the one who designed the game around that character, then go nuts! I would be interested to hear from the other people that have commented on this thread the answer to this question. Has anyone other than me noticed that the character in question is the main pc in a solo game? I have a lot experience running those kinds of games and if anyone else here has they know you have to play a balancing game to make up the lack of other pcs to support and fill roles one pc can't alone.
Once we had that piece of information, I think most people responded the same way: Home game? Solo game? Your GM gave you cool stuff? Live it up!
I think the confusion came from the OP asking "would you allow this character at your table?" without any context. Honestly, it's the same as asking "Can I play my 250-point Hero System reincarnation-of-Robin Hood superhero in your Rise of the Runelords game?"
No, sorry, you can't: that's a completely different set of rules, and it's not fair to any other players. Have fun in the other game, though!
If you want to try to come up with a Pathfinder-playable version of that character, though, we can talk.
Is your DM named "Monty" perhaps?no
Hi bigp4nda,
DrDeth was referring to a classic situation that has been around since early in the history of roleplaying games. It used to be very common for players to bring the same character to many different tables to play in different DM's campaigns. Sometimes players would show up with characters having incredibly powerful magic items or very high ability scores or other advantages compared to other characters with the same amount of adventuring experience, making it tricky to fit them into a game without causing problems. That type of campaign where you get a lot of powerful stuff faster then usual got the nickname "Monty Haul", after a game show host.It's a classic situation, probably almost as old as the hobby. Of course there's nothing wrong with the game you and your friend are playing, but yeah, you will have to come up with a legal version of your character to play in most other games.