The idea of having an effective dirty fighter build is interesting to me. Other than Improved Dirty Fighter, however, I don't know where to go?
Any Ideas
Arch type - lore warden for BIG boost to cmb
One level dip into monk (maneuver master) for free attack every turn.
Fast dirty trick if no dip - for not wasting the round.
Greater dirty trick later on.
Buff anything that boost to hit, flanks etc.
Used to think the best dirty trickster was:
the Skulking Slayer (Orc Rogue Archetype):
Underhanded Maneuvers (Ex): At 1st level, when she could normally make a sneak attack, a slayer may instead make a dirty trick or steal combat maneuver with a bonus on her roll. This bonus is equal to her number of sneak attack dice for a dirty trick combat maneuver, or 1-1/2 × her number of sneak attack dice for a steal combat maneuver. This ability replaces trapfinding.
BASE at 10th = +7bab, +5 sneak = +12 which is better than a straight fighter as weapons don't apply to dirty tricks.
But its easily an Aasimar Battle Oracle:
Aasimar Oracle: Add +1/2 to the oracle's level for the purpose of determining the effects of one revelation.
+
Maneuver Mastery (Ex): Select one type of combat maneuver. When performing the selected maneuver, you treat your oracle level as your base attack bonus (plus the BAB from other classes) when determining your CMB. At 7th level, you gain the Improved feat (such as Improved Trip) that grants you a bonus when performing that maneuver. At 11th level, you gain the Greater feat (such as Greater Trip) that grants you a bonus when performing that maneuver. You do not need to meet the prerequisites to receive these feats.
BASE at 10th = +10 bab for dirty trick = level, +5 archetype = +15 which is better than anything.
Add divine favour, prayer, divine power, bulls strength, righeteous might, divine vessel and your pretty unstoppable.
Feats are free so build how you wish but quick dirty trick is probably worth it (and gets you multiple dirty trick attacks early as your effective BAB is 16 at 11th level!!
You still a full caster, can heal, blast, have perception as a class skill, and have revelations that: boost initiative, re-roll saves, heal as a SWIFT action AND surprising charge which lets you move and make a full attack from 1st level!!!
While a fighter or other full BAB class would be better at landing dirty trick maneuvers, a rogue gets a special bonus out of dirty tricks - blind foes are subject to sneak attack!
Hmmm. Either rogue (swashbuckler) or fighter (free hand fighter or cad) as the base, with a two-level dip to monk (master of many styles) to pick up Crane Style because you will be fighting with one free hand to do those nasty tricks anyway. Then Improved Dirty Trick and Underhand Maneuver, and you can fight really dirty...
So what, nobody mentions the dirty fighter archtype?
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I'm having trouble seeing an aasimar as a person that fights dirty.
I'd go with Cad-->Low Templar, and add in 0-3 levels of rogue based on personal preference.
Manuever Master 1 / Tengu Rogue X.
Take Improved Dirty Fighter with the 1 level of Manuever master, and use it to blind opponents.
Then use the Dirty Trick/Claw/Claw/Bite routine as the rogue for Sneak attack. At level 2 you'll be going at their flat-footed blind AC for (d3+d6+Str * 3). I'd go weapon-finessee style so you can take advantage of the Tengu's naturally high dex (Str: 14 Int: 12 Wis: 14 Dex: 18 Con: 12 Chr: 7 style).
Agile Manuever / Improved Dirty trick MM 1
Rogue 3 grab Weapon Finessee, then a slotted red ioun stone when you have the prestige (around level 4).
Rudolf Kraus wrote: I'm having trouble seeing an aasimar as a person that fights dirty.
I'd go with Cad-->Low Templar, and add in 0-3 levels of rogue based on personal preference.
What Rudolf said. Go with the Cad Fighter Archetype than low Templar PrC.
I played one in a mini campaign based off Battle Royal/Hunger Games.
Wow, I thought I would just get a few ideas. Thank you everyone. So many possibilities.
better yet. cavalier -- > low templar.
take horse master. and cooperative maneuver - gain nice bonus with full mount.
order of cockatrice for extra +2 with intimidate.
its a lot of pluses.
Rudolf Kraus wrote: I'm having trouble seeing an aasimar as a person that fights dirty.
I'd go with Cad-->Low Templar, and add in 0-3 levels of rogue based on personal preference.
No one ever expects the aasimar, exp. if you dress all shiny and paladin like. That right there is a +2 circumstance bonus to dirty trick manuvers. Just another reason why aasimars do it better !!!
Quote from the races guide
"though it must be acknowledged that some aasimars take advantage of the reputation of their kind, brutally subverting the expectations of others with acts of terrifying cruelty or abject venality. “It's always the one you least suspect” is the axiom these evil aasimars live by, and they often lead double lives as upstanding citizens or false heroes, keeping their corruption well hidden."
Besides though its called dirty trick the mechanics are more like real martial arts - its easy to play it as a nice, pacifist type who entangles and blinds foes temporarily instead of hacking them to bits like a blood thirsty murder hobo.
I don't really think you need a specific setup for it. My manuever master blinds people all the time, because blind opponents tend to have more difficulty living :).
Lore Master Fighter, Maneuver Master Monk.
Thalin wrote: Manuever Master 1 / Tengu Rogue X.
Take Improved Dirty Fighter with the 1 level of Manuever master, and use it to blind opponents.
Then use the Dirty Trick/Claw/Claw/Bite routine as the rogue for Sneak attack. At level 2 you'll be going at their flat-footed blind AC for (d3+d6+Str * 3). I'd go weapon-finessee style so you can take advantage of the Tengu's naturally high dex (Str: 14 Int: 12 Wis: 14 Dex: 18 Con: 12 Chr: 7 style).
Agile Manuever / Improved Dirty trick MM 1
Rogue 3 grab Weapon Finessee, then a slotted red ioun stone when you have the prestige (around level 4).
After looking at your suggestions, I have a question. Are slotted ioun stones a custom item. If so, what is their price. I imagine it is cheaper going from slotless to slotted.
Slotted Ioun Stone:
A Wayfinder enables the "Resonance Power" of an ioun stone. These are outlined in Seeker of Secrets. When put in there, most stones get an addition power. Wayfinders run 500 GP (250 in PFS).
The +1 AC Red Ioun stone has a power that gives it +2 to CMB and +2 to CMD. It's probably the most powerful for a given build (the CMB-style builds). So for 5000 gp + 500 for the wayfinder (or 250 in PFS) you get +1 to AC, +2 to all CMB checks, and +2 to all CMD checks. Works really well.
Thalin wrote: Slotted Ioun Stone:
A Wayfinder enables the "Resonance Power" of an ioun stone. These are outlined in Seeker of Secrets. When put in there, most stones get an addition power. Wayfinders run 500 GP (250 in PFS).
The +1 AC Red Ioun stone has a power that gives it +2 to CMB and +2 to CMD. It's probably the most powerful for a given build (the CMB-style builds). So for 5000 gp + 500 for the wayfinder (or 250 in PFS) you get +1 to AC, +2 to all CMB checks, and +2 to all CMD checks. Works really well.
Thank you,
So based on your advice and a Rogue Optimization Guide to fill in the blanks, I came up with the following:
Race: Tengu
Classes: Maneuver Master 1 / Rogue X
Class Alternatives: Claws (Replaces Swordplay)
Starting Stats
(25 point build): Str: 16 Int: 12 Wis: 14 Dex: 18 Con: 12 Chr: 7
(20 point build): Str: 14 Int: 12 Wis: 14 Dex: 18 Con: 12 Chr: 7
(15 point build): Str: 10 Int: 12 Wis: 14 Dex: 18 Con: 12 Chr: 7
Feats / Traits
M1) Agile Maneuver, Improved Dirty Trick;
R2) Sneak Attack (6d6), Trapfinding;
R3) Evasion, Finesse Rogue (aka Weapon Finesse) RT, Improved Initiative;
R4) Trap Sense +3;
R5) Uncanny Dodge, Weapon Training Claws (aka Weapon Focus) RT, Weapon Focus (Bite);
R7) Resiliency RT, Iron Will;
R9) ROGUE TALENT, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Improved Iron Will;
R11) Opportunist RT, FEAT;
R13) Greater Dirty Trick
Is there anything you would change on the Tengu Dirty Fighter build?
What Rogue Talent and Feat would you put in the open spots?
Any particular Rogue Archetype you would recommend?
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