Potentially powerful combat maneuver combo, please check if I am correct

[Wyrmfoe]

Gang,

I just want to see if I'm interpreting the following correctly...

* At 7th level, a Dwarven Foehammer has the ability, via "Hammer to the Ground," to make a free trip combat maneuver after the conclusion of a successful bull rush combat maneuver.

* The feat, "Shield Slam," allows a free bull rush combat maneuver after a successful hit from a shield slam attack.

* The feat, "Break Guard," as a swift action, allows an attack with one's other weapon (in this case, one's shield) immediately after a successful disarm combat maneuver from one's main weapon.

If I'm understanding the above correctly, a Foehammer can be built to disarm, damage, bull rush, and trip an enemy all in one action.

Am I understanding the above correctly? I'm concerned that I'm overlooking something, as this seems very strong. It is feat intensive, but a Fighter can still seemingly achieve this by Level 8, having not only purchased the prerequisites, but also the necessary "Improved" feats to prevent attacks of opportunity.

[TGMaxMaxer]

You get a +2 Bullrush and trip from Foehammer, the bull rush from the shield slam doesn't provoke, so you don't even need the bullrush feats, plus it uses your attack roll from the shield bash so weapon bonuses will apply, you can take a dwarven racial for another +2 on bullrush/overruns.

So... you need 15 dex, 13 int, expertise, Imp disarm, Imp shield bash, 2 wpn fighting, shield slam, break guard. Any other feats you stack on are just gravy.

Your stats with a 20 pt buy are going to be Str 17 Dex 15 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 11 Cha 7 for the best spread possible. Increasing Str at all other levels. With the hammers only group, you only have one disarm weapon, and it requires EWP to use, so I would get it with heirloom weapon trait to not spend a feat.

Expertise, Imp Disarm, Imp Shield bash, 2 wpn fighting, Break guard no real pre-reqs, shield slam (6BAB) one extra feat to spend, and then 1 more at level 7.

Once you get shield slam, if the bullrush pushes them into something solid they auto-fall prone, so you can actually start using the whole combo indoors at 6th level.

Bonuses: Disarm: BAB+Str(4)+4(2wpn,2feat)+1wpn training+magic weapon ~16+str buffs assuming +1 weapon at least. Trip: BAB+Str(4)+4(2 racial,2class)+magic shield (since its from shield bash attack) Bullrush: Same attack roll from shield slam attack, +4(2 racial, 2 class)

Should be pretty legit... whatever feat you took in the first 4 levels should be a throw away used to pick up one of the greater maneuver feats with retraining at level 8.

(Followers of Gorum can also take the feat Spiked Destroyer, a successful bullrush provokes a spiked armor attack from you as an AoO, for extra chunky salsa goodness)

[Wyrmfoe]

I appreciate the feedback and math-work. Thank you for the time!

So, are we agreed that (1) this looks like an accurate reading of the rules, and (2) this is pretty powerful, if admittedly combo-rific?

As you noted, it seems quite easy to build and put into effect, for an impressive benefit. If built for it, this seems very strong.

Any more thoughts on your end?

[Dr. Calvin Murgunstrumm]

dot for later exploitation. Silly PCs >:)

[TGMaxMaxer]

My PFS Dwarf is a spiked shield ranger/Brawler fighter combo (to get shield slam without prereqs)... wielding a +1 Bashing Spiked Heavy shield with Power Attack and Felling Smash, so I get to do this without the disarm route as we speak. I make a successful power attack with the shield, get a free trip and bullrush, and get a spiked armor AoO.

He's pretty damned effective with a 22 Str at level 6, and a dusty rose Ioun Stone slotted in a wayfinder for an additional +2 on CMBs. Imma get Gloves of Dueling next level and be doing 2d6+16 then bullrush@+18, trip@+16 and a spiked armor hit at d6+15.

[Sammy T]

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

(Followers of Gorum can also take the feat Spiked Destroyer, a successful bullrush provokes a spiked armor attack from you as an AoO, for extra chunky salsa goodness)

It's a swift action not an AOO.

Felling Smash is also a swift action.

So, sadly, you cannot do both in the same turn :(

[TGMaxMaxer]

Bah... missed the swift on the Spiked Destroyer. oh well... looks like retraining is in order at 8.

[AndIMustMask]

looking at the foehammer AT, that seems a pretty cool combo.

i wonder, does hammer the gap stack with rhythmic blows (9th level ability)? since both are untyped, it seems the two would go hand in hand with all those CMBs and full attacks you'd be throwing out.

is there any way to deal damage along with the disarms/trips/bull rushes?
i can see between greater bull rush/trip, spiked destroyer, and maybe vicious stomp that you'd definitely want combat reflexes and at least middling dex for AoOs (as well as the TWF prereqs. maybe run around in a breastplate to take advantage of this higher dex?)

wielding a wahaika can help with the disarming, but stat-wise its just a club with the disarm ability (and is treated by feats as f it were a club)

and since fighters can grab stand still you can be a hilarious controller as well.

[soupturtle]

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

My PFS Dwarf is a spiked shield ranger/Brawler fighter combo (to get shield slam without prereqs)... wielding a +1 Bashing Spiked Heavy shield with Power Attack and Felling Smash, so I get to do this without the disarm route as we speak. I make a successful power attack with the shield, get a free trip and bullrush, and get a spiked armor AoO.

He's pretty damned effective with a 22 Str at level 6, and a dusty rose Ioun Stone slotted in a wayfinder for an additional +2 on CMBs. Imma get Gloves of Dueling next level and be doing 2d6+16 then bullrush@+18, trip@+16 and a spiked armor hit at d6+15.

Don't forget to subtract the power attack penalty from your CMB.

I cannot see whether you did or not without your completer build, but those damage figures look like you included power attack and those high CMBs look like you might not have included the penalty.

[TGMaxMaxer]

The bullrush uses his attack roll +5, as it is with the spiked shield so recieves all bonuses from the weapon, weapon training, dwarven relentless racial, and the ioun stone.

(BAB6+STR6+WT1+Class1+Wpn1+Race2+Ioun2-2PA) so sorry... +17 bullrush
(BAB6+STR6+WT1+Wpn1+Ioun2+Feats2-2PA) +16 trip.

When I get Combat Reflexes and Gr trip I'll Have: PA shield slam, free bullrush@attack+5, swift Spiked armor hit, free trip, if tripped free extra hit.

Dwarven Pinball.

[Argus The Slayer]

So... How did you get a 22 STR as a Dwarf in PFS at level 6? You seem to have 16k GP in your belt, plus 4k in you slotted Ioune stone, plus 4k invested into your shield.

[TGMaxMaxer]

There are a couple of modules that give you stat boosts above and beyond leveling that last x time from date played. In 4 more months he loses 1 pt of str, but he should be 8th level and have the extra increase by then.

He's gotten 1 on this toon. Otherwise, he'd be at 21 Str:(belt +2) 18 start, +1 @4th level.

2 are +1, 1 is +2 (but the +2 one is 7-11 tier, on my half-orc)

He also played up a couple times to get tier 4-5 gold at levels 1-2, and tier 6-7 when he was level 5. He has 21k total, 8k in the shield, 4k in the belt, 5250 in the stone, 2500 in armor, and 1k cloak.

[Jocard The Fist]

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

With the hammers only group, you only have one disarm weapon, and it requires EWP to use, so I would get it with heirloom weapon trait to not spend a feat.

Heirloom weapon was errata'd to only work on simple/martial weapons, unless it was changed back to the original wording. So EWP is needed for the disarm hammer.

It's not in the PRD, so here it is on d20pfsrd. Or just download the errata.

[JDragon_ITTS]

I am submitting a character for a PbP game and plan to use this build.

We are making the characters at 10th level so it goes a little further than what been outlined so far, but I wanted to check and make sure I understand how it works.

So I have all the feats, class abilities listed by the OP plus a few others.

Character Details:

Foehammer
Dwarf Fighter (Foehammer) 10
NG Medium Humanoid (dwarf)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +10
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 27, touch 13, flat-footed 24 (+11 armor, +3 shield, +3 Dex)
hp 104 (10d10+40)
Fort +10, Ref +6, Will +3 (+3 vs. fear); +2 vs. poison, spells, and spell-like abilities
Defensive Abilities bravery +3, defensive training
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Light Shield Bash +13/+8 (1d8+3/x2) and
+1 Bane (Evil Outsiders) Cold Iron Warhammer +16/+11 (1d8+9+2d6 vs. Evil Outsiders/x3)
Special Attacks hammer to the ground, hatred, sledgehammer
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +10; CMB +14 (+16 Bull Rushing, +18 Disarming, +16 Overrunning, +16 Sundering, +16 Tripping); CMD 27 (27 vs. Bull Rush, 29 vs. Disarm, 27 vs. Trip)
Feats Break Guard, Combat Expertise +/-3, Greater Disarm, Improved Disarm, Improved Shield Bash, Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Power Attack -3/+6, Shield Slam, Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Warhammer), Weapon Specialization (Warhammer)
Skills Acrobatics +0 (-4 jump), Appraise +6 (+8 to determine the price of nonmagic items with precious metals or gemstones), Climb +9, Craft (blacksmith) +7, Escape Artist +0, Fly +0, Perception +10 (+12 to notice unusual stonework, such as traps and hidden doors in stone walls or floors), Ride +0, Stealth +0, Survival +8, Swim +1
Languages Common, Dwarven, Terran
SQ bane (evil outsiders), greed, hardy, rhythmic blows, slow and steady, stability, stonecunning +2
Other Gear +2 Mithral Full plate, +2 Bashing, Shield Spikes Mithral Light steel shie, +1 Bane (Evil Outsiders) Cold Iron Warhammer, Belt of physical might (Str & Dex +2), 54000 GP
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bane (Evil Outsiders) +2 & +2d6 damage vs chosen type
Bravery +3 (Ex) +3 to Will save vs. Fear
Break Guard May attack opponent you attempted to disarm with your second weapon
Combat Expertise +/-3 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs monsters of the Giant subtype.
Greater Disarm When disarming a foe, their weapon lands 15 ft away in a random direction.
Greed +2 to Appraise checks to determine the price of nonmagical goods that contain precious metals or gemstones.
Hammer to the Ground (Ex) Make a trip check vs foe after successful bull rush.
Hardy +2 Gain a racial bonus to saves vs Poison, Spells and Spell-Like effects.
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs Goblinoids/Orcs.
Improved Disarm You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when disarming.
Improved Shield Bash You still get your shield bonus while using Shield Bash.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Rhythmic Blows (Ex) +1 for each consecutive blow against a target.
Shield Slam Shield Bash attack gives a free bull rush on a hit.
Sledgehammer (Ex) +2 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to bull rush, overrun, sunder, or trip
Slow and Steady Your base speed is never modified by encumbrance.
Stability +4 Gain bonus to CMD vs bull rush/trip while standing on ground.
Stonecunning +2 +2 bonus to Perception vs unusual stonework. Free check within 10 feet.

I want to go through how a combat round could go to make sure I have this all down.

PC has multiple attackers with in reach and its his turn.

Primary attack - Disarm at +18 (or is it +16 due to Two Weapon Fighting)
This succeeds so due to Break Guard I get a shield bash (is that a free action or does it use up one of my attacks?)
Shield Bash - +13 Damage 1d8+3
This hits so thanks to Shield Slam I get a Bull Rush attempt
Bull Rush - +13 (using same attack roll as shield)
This is successful so I get a free Trip Attempt due to Hammer to the Ground
Trip Attempt - +16 (or +14 due to Two Weapon Fighting) take a -5 on this is I don't follow the bull rush

And I still have my second attack with the war hammer and two attacks with the shield and in theory I could do the whole thing again with the second hammer attack, just at -5 to all the rolls.

Any thoughts on things to increase my CMB #'s would be appreciated and adjustments to feats or traits. I realize I could do the item that was mentioned but I didn't want to go overboard on this and the war hammer just makes sense.

JDragon

[Joex The Pale]

This looks like something fun to drop on my PCs... :)

[666bender]

Dot