So now that my Natural attacks question has been answered, I would like to know how big a difference there is between Lion Shaman and Saurion Shaman.
The Lion shaman has "Lions" as their creature type so they have only a handful of creatures to choose for animal companions and to wild shape into.
Versus the Saurion shaman which has all Dino creatures to turn into, which includes tanks, stealthy types, flyers and swimmers. Also Saurion shamans are in my opinion super duper chedder infused cheese monsters.
I want to make an effective Combat druid without utterly breaking low level combat, is Saurion shaman just too overpowered vs its other animal shaman counter-parts?
Also I have no idea how to build a backstory for someone who loves dinosaurs and turns into a dinosaur while riding a dinosaur and summoning more dinosaurs....
The saurian shaman is stritcly superior to the other shamans... mostly because the otehr shamans are horrible compared to the baseline druid. The +2 levels of wildshape doesn't help you without bigger animals to turn into... which only the saurian shaman gets.
The saurian shaman is good at lower level combat, but you and your pet will be struggling to keep up with a moderately optimized barbarian.
Also I have no idea how to build a backstory for someone who loves dinosaurs and turns into a dinosaur while riding a dinosaur and summoning more dinosaurs....
They mostly live in mawangi, so you have our choices of tribal shaman or warrior ideas, or you can raid Edgar Rice Burrough for an archetypical European there studying them.
The scientist: More spells, lets the dino do most of the melee. Probably focuses on summoning.
A BULLY! Great white hunter who emulates his prey, as he wrestles it to the ground with his bare hands.
The forelorn soldier who seeking solace from the war wandered off into the woods hemingway style and has been living with the dinos ever since.
Well I'll take a look and decide what I want to choose, if I can find appropriate miniatures for dinos and a dino druid I may go saurian.
Also as a human druid being able to use Eye for Talent and give a Dino a higher Int........clever girl......
Could be fun.
Thanks for the input!
Human eye for talent for the 4 int right out of the bat is pretty sweet.
Aasimar has the celestial servant feat that gives your critter a whole bunch of goodies including Darkvision, cold, acid, and electric resistance, and damage reduction at higher levels.
|
You could base your character off Jurassic Park's Robert Muldoon, big game hunter who ended up travelling to the Mwangi, then developed a huge sense of respect for the dinosaurs. "They're... learning."
Or you could be a Steve Irwin kind of character, low intelligence, but super super enthusiastic about all his dino friends. "Crikey! Look at this girl! 40 centimetre long razor sharp hooked claws that'll disembowel ya in one pounce! Bloody 'ell! She clawed me again! Git the bandages!"
Playing a tribal shaman is always fun. Talk to the dinos in a bunch of clicks and screeches, then turn to your team members and tell them what you learnt from your knowledge nature result in a refined Taldan accent.
There are dinosaurs in the Mwangi expanse, but the Shackles isles also has an island known as 'Raptor Island'. Just about every pirate that lands there and walks into the jungle doesn't walk out. You could have been a castaway that landed there and had to venerate the dinos just to survive?
|
In my opinion the Saurian Shaman is quite broken and cheesy.
I'm playing a Lion Shaman. She is probably a little more powerful than a normal druid but there are trade offs involved so it isn't completely clear.
She is definitely well, well above the average power level at all levels from 1 to 8 (which is as far as I've played her). She is quite versatile and is quite capable of being a decent caster or a decent combatant.
She isn't as powerful as the hyper optimized specialized characters are when their specialties come up, But she can usually give them a run for their money and she is far, far more versatile and so is ALWAYS quite useful regardless of the current group that she is in.
I almost always significantly underplay her so as to not dominate the game.
On at least 3 occasions that I recall she basically single handedly
won a battle that was looking very tough and dangerous (ie, a quite possible TPK) before she unleashed her awesomeness.
It is undeniably the case that the Saurian Shaman is very significantly more powerful than the Lion Shaman. Dinosaurs companions are more powerful than feline companions, dinosaurs are both more powerful and FAR more versatile than felines both for summoning purposes and for wild shaping purposes.
Saurian Shamans are overpowered and cheesy
|
In my opinion the Saurian Shaman is quite broken and cheesy.
I'm playing a Lion Shaman. She is probably a little more powerful than a normal druid but there are trade offs involved so it isn't completely clear.
She is definitely well, well above the average power level at all levels from 1 to 8 (which is as far as I've played her). She is quite versatile and is quite capable of being a decent caster or a decent combatant.
She isn't as powerful as the hyper optimized specialized characters are when their specialties come up, But she can usually give them a run for their money and she is far, far more versatile and so is ALWAYS quite useful regardless of the current group that she is in.
I almost always significantly underplay her so as to not dominate the game.
On at least 3 occasions that I recall she basically single handedly
won a battle that was looking very tough and dangerous (ie, a quite possible TPK) before she unleashed her awesomeness.It is undeniably the case that the Saurian Shaman is very significantly more powerful than the Lion Shaman. Dinosaurs companions are more powerful than feline companions, dinosaurs are both more powerful and FAR more versatile than felines both for summoning purposes and for wild shaping purposes.
Saurian Shamans are overpowered and cheesy
No they are not. I have one at 12th level now. The character was no more or less powerful than any other character at the table. Were there sometimes where a spell or the wildshape saved the day? Yes. But no more than the Archer or the Paladin or the Sorcerer.
Some people don't build their characters to super optimize. Can the Saurian Shaman be an overpowered character? Yes, but no more so than any other build that you specifically build to be broken.
|
|
Or you could be a Steve Irwin kind of character, low intelligence, but super super enthusiastic about all his dino friends. "Crikey! Look at this girl! 40 centimetre long razor sharp hooked claws that'll disembowel ya in one pounce! Bloody 'ell! She clawed me again! Git the bandages!"
I love this. I think the other players might get a bit annoyed by the accent by the end of a 4 hour slot though...
|
I haven't noticed shamans being particularly powerful at levels 1-3 so far; and my players include a lion and saurian shaman. Level 4 will be the low point, because of the delayed wildshape. And from my experience playing a regular druid, delaying wildshape is awful.
That said, a summoning-oriented shaman will become impressive at level 5, and a wildshaping saurian shaman will have a huge breakthrough at level 6. But by level 8 his lead shrinks back to the Totemic Summons.
Human eye for talent for the 4 int right out of the bat is pretty sweet.
Aasimar has the celestial servant feat that gives your critter a whole bunch of goodies including Darkvision, cold, acid, and electric resistance, and damage reduction at higher levels.
The aasimar nature oracle gets the best companion 1.5 x lvl.
Send in the attack Camel... spit, spit, munch, munch... combat over!
As noted above, the primary difference between the saurian shaman and other shamans is the wide variety of dinosaur forms that the shaman gets. Many GMs allow templates like "huge" for other shamans which pretty much makes the difference less important.
For those who continue to suggest that shamans are less powerful than standard druids because "the +2 doesn't amount to much", let me just say that the ability to summon a shaman creature type in a standard action vs a full round is a huge, huge advantage for the shamans in my experience. At least I've been able to use it to good effect.
|
|
Most of the time, being a shaman means you summon faster, which is good if your animal features on the summon list a lot (saurian, although the lion and eagle do keep up), but your wildshape suffers.
Few shamans actually have huge animals of their own type to change into, so the bonus to wildshape is negligible; but the penalty also hurts you when trying to change into elementals, which is significant.
Again, it's the saurian shaman that actually has huge critters to turn into, and on level 6 that's heavy stuff. But by level 8 normal druids can do that too, and they don't get penalties to other forms.
So in the end, the only thing that stays is Totemic Summons. And you have to wonder if the price you pay in wildshape is worth it; that depends on the animals you can summon.
I think for the saurian it's really worth it, and it's doable for eagle and lion.
That Oracle gets SNA also!
The Shaman archetypes mostly penalize wild shape, but mega-boost summoning.
If you want to be a fighting type Druid, don't be a shaman, not even a Saurian shaman, as you'll only have any real benefit from levels 6-8.
Don't forget Beast Shape is not the end all be all of Wild Shape. The elementals are worthy of consideration in the right environments and plant shape gives access to a couple amazing forms (Quickwood has a 60' reach with their melee attacks, for example, and Tendriculos gets regen).
The real reason to be a Shaman (and the best ones are Saurian > Eagle > Lion) is for the Standard Action Summons and Templated Summons.
Shamans are tops at summoning, but the vanilla druid is better at Wild Shaping for all but two levels (6th and 7th).