| Ravingdork |
Ranged siege weapons don't have their damage cut in half when used against objects. They also have the ability to crit objects (which are normally immune).
Is that really the only real difference between siege weapons and conventional weapons? Do they not also ignore hardness or anything like that?
They just seem...weak and useless to me. My players were complaining in my skull and shackles game last night that they could run up and do more damage to enemy ships with conventional weapons then they could with the siege weapons on their ship.
| VRMH |
they could run up and do more damage to enemy ships with conventional weapons then they could with the siege weapons on their ship.
Did the siege equipment have as many "plusses" as their normal weaponry? 'cause Its a bit odd to complain that magical gear is better than mundane equipment, even if the latter is really really big.
Lincoln Hills
|
I do feel that siege engines could do with a bit more appreciation. 5d6 damage may sound like a lot compared to a greatsword's 2d6, but there are lots of ways one can crank that greatsword up to easily match the average 17.5 points of damage per hit that a catapult inflicting 5d6 damage does.
Of course, I appreciate VRMH's comment that one shouldn't necessarily judge mundane weapons by comparing them to the Sword of Heroes being wielded by Invincibus the Pouncer. However, it seems that the average hp of characters and monsters have crept up a lot faster than the damage inflicted by siege machines. Maybe I'm just a sucker for large complicated death-dealing machinery, but I feel that if I just spent six rounds aiming and invested a bunch of ranks in Profession (siege engineer) check to put that rock exactly on target, I should get more than, "You hit the horse and rider. You don't even knock them down."
A PC is at greater risk of dying in an unusually deep stream (despite the many, many ways this can be averted) than in a battlefield being bombarded with jagged 40-pound rocks. Does that seem right to you?
| Ravingdork |
A typical sailing ship can mount 10 firedrakes, three each in the port and starboard banks and two each up on the forecastle and sterncastle.
Seven of those can fire in the same direction. 7 x 6d6 = 42d6 damage = ~147 average damage.
Scary at any level.
| Claxon |
Also, lets think about how siege weaponry was really used on the battlefield. Many weapons weren't designed so much to be super effective man killing machines. They were designed to chnage how combat took place. The catapult was designed to break up enemy lines by forcing them to move out of position. The trebuchet was used to break down walls or defensive structures. A lot of siege equipment wasn't so much to kill people as it was to change and control how troops were deployed by threatening troops.
LazarX
|
Ranged siege weapons don't have their damage cut in half when used against objects. They also have the ability to crit objects (which are normally immune).
Is that really the only real difference between siege weapons and conventional weapons? Do they not also ignore hardness or anything like that?
They just seem...weak and useless to me. My players were complaining in my skull and shackles game last night that they could run up and do more damage to enemy ships with conventional weapons then they could with the siege weapons on their ship.
They're also kind of like....huge. The main purpose of siege weapons is to bring down walls so that your troops can go in and storm the place. They've got range so that you can bombard from safety during a prolonged siege. Something that's not exactly fitted to the idea of combats that end in one minute or less.
| Der Origami Mann |
Take a Siege Mage to use gargantuan Siege engines ... for example:
Bombard, heavy DMG: 9d6 (crit: x4), range: 200 ft.(100 ft. min.)
+ 9x3 DMG / +9 Attack (max)
As a swift action, a siege mage can sacrifice one of his spells to empower the next attack he makes before the end of his turn with a siege engine he is bonded with. When he does, the siege engine attack gains a bonus on its attack roll or targeting roll equal to the level of the spell he sacrificed, and a bonus to damage equal to 3 × the level of the spell.
Lincoln Hills
|
Consider this house rule. Add a Bull Rush CMB to direct-fire weapons such as the ballista and cannon, and the Trip CMB to indirect-fire weapons like the catapult. It would probably be simplest to let the attack roll of the siege weapon oppose the PC's AC and CMB both, so that a well-protected PC might take no damage but still be hurled back/knocked flat by the impact.
This doesn't interfere with damage or affect the use of the machines against immobile structures, but it adds some cinematic punch - low-level NPCs will constantly be getting hurled back 10' or brutally slammed into the ground. And even high-level PCs will be a little worried - I've noticed that above a certain level, barbarians would rather take 6d6 damage ("I've got DR!") than be knocked prone.
| Troubleshooter |
I imagine a heroic PC that is focused on using a magical weapon would most effectively be compared to a heroic PC that is focused on using a magical siege weapon. In such a case, I imagine the siege weapon would have its advantages.
Unique siege weapon enchantments ... now there's an idea for Wayfinder. I can already imagine a property that bull rushes every creature away from the center of its area of effect.
| Tarantula |
Catapults can fire at squares they cannot directly see (so over walls). This lets a castle have catapults inside the courtyard firing out over the walls at approaching enemies (with an observer relaying feedback).
As far as practicality for PCs? Not really. Might as well just summon a giant to throw boulders for you.