| Renegadeshepherd |
Hello everyone. Normally im not one to seek advice but I really need a hand with bringing a concept in my head to the character sheet. ill lay out the laundry list of relevant info in sections for all to c. and be gentle its my first post ;)
CONCEPT: A male human or half-elf that is so smooth a talker he could seduce a succubus if he had a mind to with a little work and be able to see through the lies of said succubus. The character is one who looks unthreatening and should have as few and as light armor and weapons as possible (maybe even none if it can worked out). I always prefer a character that is as neutral as possible. I wanted to make a character that is able to serve as an agent to all deities should they choose to use his services (at a price of course), but I was unable to find a precedent for this.
CAMPAIGN: GM mixing pathfinder society and his own scenarios with slowed experience so as to keep characters in low to mid for a few months and ending at lv 13. Anything is permitted as long as society or rule-BOOKS does not expressly forbid it. Clerics and inquisitors can be polytheistic as long as their believes follow the principles of a listed domain and gods are part of said domain. start at lv 1. would like the "sweet spot" to be about lv 5. 20 point buy.
GROUP: Uncertain as of right now but a paladin and an oracle are almost absolutely certain. 2 people will be regulars but I have no idea of their class(es). One more will join on random days as he is in retail and has irregular work schedule.
WHAT I CAME UP WITH: Human Inquisitor 1 (infiltrator/conversion inquisition) and then monk for the rest ( monk of four winds/ki mystic/qinggong).
Stats after racial including dual talent +2 to str and wis.
ST 16 (+3)
DX 14 (+2)
CON 12 (+1)
INT 12 (+1)
WIS 18 (+4)
CHA 7 (-2)
Chosen deity: Asmodeus as he is a lord of contracts. My characters code of conduct is based around when he makes a deal he keeps it and punishes those who do not do so. as such the character masquerades as a lawyer but again serves anyone for the right price. alignment is LN.
Trait: that religious trait that turns a dex skill to wisdom and is class skill, forget name. I chose disable device since there may not be a rogue.
1st level feat was cosmapolatin for more languages.
skills: if its wisdom or converted to its on my go to list and the knowledge skills get a respectable dip since ki mystic aids it well enough I can at least backup the specialist.
Weapon: my fists
Abilities I planned to use scorching ray at monk 4, dragons breath at monk 10.
FINAL NOTES: plz keep in mind one thing as it relates to the face aspect, with my stats as they are and with the skill set ive chosen I will start with bluff and diplomacy at +12 and preferably like to numbers reasonably close to that one way or another. a point of reference is that I could match or best a succubus by the time we were the same level. The hardest point for me to figure is combat and who to serve as the inquisitor.
I think that will be a good start for everyone to throw out a suggestion. spell out to whatever level or detail u like.
Arni Carni
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Let's start with you FINAL NOTES:
No way you will "start bluff and diplomacy at +12" with these stats regardless of your skill set.
As an Inquisitor, you get 6 +INT skill ranks per level. You only start with 8. If you split them equally between Bluff and Diplomacy, you get
Bluff bonus = 4 ranks + 3 class -2 CHA = +5
Diplomacy bonus = 4 ranks + 3 class -2 CHA = +5
If I am mistaken, please show my how you figured you get +12 on these skills.
I have tried giving you more this in a longer post, but I keep losing the webpage in the middle or writing the post, so I am going to break my advice into bite-size chunks. Expect a couple of more after this one.
Arni Carni
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I like your character concept. For some role models, you should check out Torquemada, who was a real-life Inquisitor, and Tery Goodkind's Mordsith characters. Both of these are religious fanatic types who use "Seduction by Intimidation", which is the way I think you should go with this. But you need some Charisma to pull this off, and your character is sadly deficient in this area. I would suggest the following ability scores:
STR 15 (+2) 13 + 2 Dual Talent human for 3 points
DEX 12 (+1) 12 for 2 points
CON 12 (+1) 12 for 2 points
INT 11 (0) 11 for 1 point
WIS 18 (+4) 16 + 2 Dual Talent human for 10 points
CHA 12 (+1) 12 for 2 points
In order to boost the CHA, I had to steal from some of your other high scores.
STR stays high enough to that if you really want STR 16 by the time you get to your "sweet spot" at level 5, you can take it to 16 with your 4th level ability bump. Your charcter needs this to do respectable damage for his unarmed attacks.
DEX doesn't matter much to either of your character classes' primary abilities. I have left enough to give you a +1 bonus. In terms of hurting character development, the only thing that it will affect is to limit the number of extra Attacks of Opportunity you would get IF you take the Combat Reflexes Bonus Feat. This Feat doesn't seem to fit your character, so I would say you lose very little by dropping your DEX. Check out the last sentence in the MONK\Basic Feats section of the Core Rulebook where it says that Monks don't have to meet the normal Feat prerequisites for the Bonus Feats on the Monk's list.
CON was good enough already, so I didn't mess with it.
INT was dropped to 11. While there SEEM to be a lot of INT requirements bundled in the Class Skills for both your character classes, you also get class abilities in each class that let you sub WIS fo INT in some cases, mostly related to Knowledge checks. Your Cosmopolitan Feat makes up for the extra languages that you lose. Also by making it 11, you have the option of bumping this stat to 12 and getting a +1 bonus, at 4th level, instead of bumping your STR.
WIS is your primary stat, and affects almost all of your class abilties for both classes. This is the core fo your character, so I didn't mess with it.
CHA is not required for your character classes, but it is a vital element in your character description. Seducing succubi and high Bluff and Diplomacy skill bonuses requires a good CHA bonus, or a lot of skill ranks.
With these stats, you get take the following Skills, using 6 + INT = 6 skill ranks per level:
Bluff = 1 rank + 3 class + 1 CHA = +5
Diplomacy = 1 rank +3 class +1 CHA = +5
Intimidate = 1 rank +3 class + 1 Stern Gaze +1 CHA = +5
Sense Motive = 1 rank + 3 class +1 Stern Gaze +4 WIS = +9
Knowledge Religion = 1 rank + 3 class + 0 INT = +4
Perception = 1 rank + 3 class + 4 WIS = +8
Now you have the social skills required to attempt
Seduction by Bluff = "Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies."
Seduction by Diplomacy = "I'll show you mine, if you show me yours."
Seduction by Intimidation = Call it what you will, unwilling or coerced
seduction boils down to rape. But we are talking about raping demons, since succubi are demons, and not about living, breathing people, or even pretend people. I can't say "human" in this context without it meanign something else, so let's define "pretend people" as any member of any allowed character race in this game.
I didn't include Disable Device in your skill list, because I couldn't find the trait that allows you to swap WIS for DEX. If you can find the reference for it, then I would put a rank into Disable Device instead of Knowledge Religion or Perception, and get a +8 for that Skill. Remember that Disable Device is a Trained Skill, so if you take that trait, then you neede ot put at leastt 1 rank in it.
This is getting kind of long, so next post I will show you what your character could look like at 4th level.
| Renegadeshepherd |
The +12 is calculated as Inftrator archetype adding wisdom to bluff and diplomacy (+4) to one rank (+1), then class skill (+3), and conversion inquisition adding wisdom to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate Instead of charisma (+4). Thatmeans bLuff and diplomacy adds up to +12 unless someone can tell me this is an illegal build though I have found nothing to say it isn't fair. That big boost is the main basis of this incarnation of the character.
The charisma is horrible for everything else but it's what allowed me to get pluses to intel and con so I thought it a good trade.
James Fenix
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Let's start with you FINAL NOTES:
No way you will "start bluff and diplomacy at +12" with these stats regardless of your skill set.
As an Inquisitor, you get 6 +INT skill ranks per level. You only start with 8. If you split them equally between Bluff and Diplomacy, you get
Bluff bonus = 4 ranks + 3 class -2 CHA = +5
Diplomacy bonus = 4 ranks + 3 class -2 CHA = +5If I am mistaken, please show my how you figured you get +12 on these skills.
I have tried giving you more this in a longer post, but I keep losing the webpage in the middle or writing the post, so I am going to break my advice into bite-size chunks. Expect a couple of more after this one.
He's using the conversion to replace cha for wis on bluff and double dipping wisdom from the infiltrator archetype.
it's 1 rank+3 class skill+4 wisdom+4 wisdom=12 total modifier
Edit: Ninja'ed by 6 seconds
Arni Carni
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On the way to 4th level, you should do 2 levels of Inquisitor and 2 levels of Monk. To give you enough hit points to survive your hand-to-hand fighting theme, you should take you favored class bonus as + 1 HP. Monk seems to be your favored class. Since you express a interest in developing knowledge skills, and since the Monk skill point progression is low (4+INT per level), I would suggest that you go for the INT bump at 4th level. Your stats would then be
STR 15 (+2)
DEX 12 (+1)
CON 12 (+1)
INT 12 (+1)
WIS 18 (+4)
CHA 12 (+1)
The reason for getting 2 levels in Inquisitor is to to snag the Cunning Initiative abilty, which allows you to stack your WIS bonus on your DEX bonus for Initiative.
You would have have 6+6+4+5=21 skill ranks by level 4. You should add one new Knowledge or Language (via Lingusitcs) each level, and add 1 rank to each of the other skills that you have already developed, except Intimidate and Sense Motive, where you split whatever is left.
Your skill set would be
Bluff = 2 ranks + 3 class +1 CHA = +6
Diplomacy = 2 ranks + 3 class + 1 CHA = +6
Intimidate = 6 ranks + 3 class + 1 Stern Gaze + 1 CHA = +11
Sense Motive = 5 ranks + 3 class + 1 Stern Gaze + 4 WIS = +13
Knowledge Religion = 1 rank + 3 class + 1 INT = +5
Knowledge Planes = 1 rank + 3 class + 1 INT = +5
Knowledge Arcana = 1 rank + 3 class + 1 INT = +5
Linguistics = 1 rank + 1 INT = +2 (gain a language of choice)
Perception = 2 ranks + 3 class + 4 WIS = +9
I chose the Knowledge skills to fit it with your need to know a lot about succubi.
If you would rather do "Seduction by Bluff" or "Seduction by Diplomacy", then swap ranks in Intimidate to Bluff or Diplomacy. You'll get one less bonus for attempting seduction, because you won't get the Stern Gaze bonus.
At 5th level, you get your 3rd Ki Mysitc Monk level, and you get your Ki pool that you can use to boost your Knowledge checks. So the Ki is the icing on your "sweet spot" and it kicks in at 5th level.
Next we'll look at weapon and armor progression.
The black raven
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The +12 is calculated as Inftrator archetype adding wisdom to bluff and diplomacy (+4) to one rank (+1), then class skill (+3), and conversion inquisition adding wisdom to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate Instead of charisma (+4). Thatmeans bLuff and diplomacy adds up to +12 unless someone can tell me this is an illegal build though I have found nothing to say it isn't fair.
Actually, James Jacobs is one of those who say that you cannot add an ability modifier twice unless you have something that specifically says that you can add it twice (not the case here). It appeared in a post concerning Fury's Fall IIRC.
Since you are Human, you NEED the Silver Tongued alternate Racial Trait (it replaces Skilled). It should fit your character's concept like a glove (+2 racial to both Bluff and Diplomacy and can shift attitudes by 3 steps instead of the usual 2).
I believe you should get the Extremely Fashionable trait, for the added +1 trait bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate.
Arni Carni
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You need some kind of weapon to survive 2 levels as an Inquistor. In keeping with you "fist of the gods" theme, opt for glove-type weapons: gauntlets, spiked gauntlets, cestus, brass knuckles, etc. For range, go with skurikens.
For armor you start with leather. You're going to ditch it soon anyway.
For the first 2 levels, with spiked gauntlets, your DPH (damage per hit) is 1d4+2 and your AC = 13.
Once you become a Monk, you take off the gloves and the armor. Your DPH Unarmed goes to 1d8+2, not to mention that Flurry of Blows gets you an additional attack, for another possible 1d8+2 damage, and your AC goes to 17.
By the time you get to 4th level, you have your starting Feat (Cosmopoltian), your 3rd level progression Feat, and 2 Monk Bonus Feats. Your choices are restricted enough, so I won't restrict them any further, other than to suggest that between the unselected Trait(s), and the 3rd level progression Feat, you should find something to enhance your Will save a bit, or the succubus might end up seducing you.
| sunbeam |
It's kind of cheesy but you could dip one level into Synthesist Summoner and use the evolution points for skills. You can get an 8 point bump on a selected skill. You wouldn't use it all the time, just when you wanted to use the specific skills. Since you can't use armor, it wouldn't be something you would want to do all the time. Just when you wanted to turn on the charm.
I just think it would be kind of a cool image. Like in a movie where the sunlight suddenly glints off someone's teeth. If I ran the game that's how I would do it, not some weird biped or quadruped.
| sunbeam |
Oh yeah, and bab be diddled, I wouldn't be above taking one level of Sorcerer as well for this:
"Rakshasa Bloodline:
Silver Tongue (Su): At 1st level, you can draw upon your outsider heritage to spin amazingly convincing lies. Activating this ability is a swift action. You gain a +5 bonus on one Bluff check made to convince another of the truth of your words (similar to using glibness). If a magical effect is used against you that would detect your lies or force you to speak the truth, the user of the effect must succeed on a caster level check (DC 10 + your sorcerer level) to succeed. Failure means the effect does not detect your lies or force you to speak only the truth. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier."
You could do the same thing with two feats, but my preference would be to just dip and use the feats for something else. Doing synthesist and sorcerer will really hit your bab, but you do get some spells to go along with them.
Hmmm I just reread your original post. In your shoes, I think I would go with all Synthesist, without any Monk. It might be different with you guys, but I would have no problem with a player just appearing to be a normal guy when he is fused with his eidolon, unless he took some wonky evolutions. I just think you would get a lot more out of synthesist levels than monk.
Arni Carni
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Infiltrator Achetype and Conversion Inquisition - Sorry, I missed that part. They do seem to moderate the CHA deficiency a bit.
Sounds like a lot of effort to go through for a couple of points of STR, DEX and INT that his character doesn't really need.
How many different ways does one character need to seduce a succubi? And which one is most likely to work? I think that it would probably be easier to coerce a demon than to convince it you were on it's side, or doing it a favor. Inquistor's SHOULD be intimidating. The Bluff/Diplomacy route for seducing succubi is kind of "out of character".
Any leads on the Religious (I assume he means Faith) Trait that let's you swap WIS for DEX for one skill?
| Renegadeshepherd |
Got some good stuff already so time for me to add some more.
IF infiltrator and inquisition can't be stacked then is there any way to get double digits from turn 1?
2) I mentioned the succubus but I'm not necessarily trying to seduce one, I just want to be such a mouthpiece it would be very possible.
3) the monk is not mandatory but it was the best that I could come up with. Especially since I'm rewarded with that high wisdom to give me good AC.
4) silver tongued has been mentioned, and it was a major consideration. What I was and still am uncertain on is how badly does the monk need that +1 to strength I have him? I never played a monk and have heard time and time again they need strength. Thoughts?
5) if silver tongued is taken then what would be good for bonus feat, or even the normal feat?
6) anyone got a precedent for a merc for the gods?
| Trogdar |
I would go with sensei(monk archetype) if I were you. It looks like you want to make wisdom your prime stat and you don't care about your personal combat potential. Sensei uses wisdom for there to hit and comes with a bunch of party buffing capability. Pick up some quiggong buffs to improve your buff potential further.
With that change, you could lower your strength to fourteen or so and buff your intelligence so that you have a larger return on skills per level.
I would also take focused study. It trades out your first level bonus feat for three skill focus feats that you could add to your prime coercion skills.
Arni Carni
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1) Concentrate your skill ranks. Using the build that I submitted, you can do the following at 1st level
Intimidate = 6 ranks + 3 class + 1 Stern Gaze + 1 CHA = +11
However, this turns your Skill Monkey into a One-Trick Pony. There are other combinations that could work, but they all end up in the One-Trick Pony category.
2) It sounded like you had a very specific goal in mind. Sort of like a pedophile priest who opens a dojo after he gets excommunicated. However, the general goal of "influencing people" is a good one. I would spread the skill ranks between all of the persuasion skills, but would pick one to emphasize. Since the Inquisitor is already geared towards Intimidation, I would go with that as my major skill focus (not to be confused with the Feat of the same name).
3) I ilke the Monk part of the concept. You just need to realize the Monk doesn't need DEX, because his WIS gives him "economy of motion" and "fluid grace" that substitute for natural DEX.
4) You gave the character +3 STR bonus. I dialed that back to +2. I think that STR is an important stat for a Monk, but not as important to your "influence people" theme for your character concept. I left you with the ability to decide, after you've played the character up to level 4, whether he needs more STR, or more INT.
5) I think your initial Cosmopolitan Feat selection works well with your character concept. Your Bonus Feats should be combat oriented, and should fit what you think your fighting style should be, and basically, whether you want to avoid damage, or to cause extra damgage. Your 3rd level progression Feat should give your a Will save bonus, like Iron Will, to keep you from being overcome by magical influences that your skills can't handle. Your 5th level progression Feat should be Extra Ki, which would come on-line at the same time your Ki pool comes into play for your 3rd level of Ki Mystic Monk.
I definitely see "5th level sweet spot" for this character concept. 2 levels to get your holy purpose, 2 to hone your fighting style, and THEN you get your energy focus.
6) A Pathfinder connected concept? Or do you mean a literary/mythical one? What do you mean by gods? The Thuggi might be a good precedent, although I don't think that they were money motivated. Mercury, the original silver-tongued devil, with influence out the yin-yang, was also the god of commerce, but not much of a warrior. Most gods require donations and sacrifices, they seem to be short on cash, and they don't tend to "hire" mercenaries. They have lots of followers who will do the work for free. What are you going to do? Assassinate other gods? Fight the hordes of hell for a pile of gold? Maybe you should just make the evil "pay" for their sins, and don't expect to get a nickle directly from god, who has provided you with this unique opportunity to make money by collecting the wages of sin on his behalf. Don't forget that god gets 10% of whatever you collect, or you may lose your special abilities and spells until you atone for your transgressions.
On the other hand, preists are people (almost said human), and probably do hire the occasional mecenary, usually to protect them from hostile "infidels" or their own flock. Maybe you could get the Archbishop of Asmodeus to hire you to take out some cardinals, or maybe you could become a witch hunter and get a bounty for every evil priest or witch you kill or persuade to change their ways.
Finally, expect the paladin you're traveling with to have "moral" issues with some of your actions. Going back to the succubus scenario: How are you going to keep the paladin from smiting the evil b... , I mean demon, before you get a chance to get in her pants?
| Renegadeshepherd |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
By the way, I am not trying to optimize your character class (or classes), I am trying to optimize your character CONCEPT, which is not the same thing. He won't be the best ever Inquisitor/Monk, but he will be able to do the things you want him to do by the time you get to level 5.
that's good. though every character needs to be functional id like this one to be fun as well so im thankful.
I would go with sensei(monk archetype) if I were you. It looks like you want to make wisdom your prime stat and you don't care about your personal combat potential. Sensei uses wisdom for there to hit and comes with a bunch of party buffing capability. Pick up some quiggong buffs to improve your buff potential further.
With that change, you could lower your strength to fourteen or so and buff your intelligence so that you have a larger return on skills per level.
I would also take focused study. It trades out your first level bonus feat for three skill focus feats that you could add to your prime coercion skills.
was considered for long time. how does one make a sensei build effective in battle? was most concerned with not getting monk bonus feats.
5) I think your initial Cosmopolitan Feat selection works well with your character concept. Your Bonus Feats should be combat oriented, and should fit what you think your fighting style should be, and basically, whether you want to avoid damage, or to cause extra damgage. Your 3rd level progression Feat should give your a Will save bonus, like Iron Will, to keep you from being overcome by magical influences that your skills can't handle. Your 5th level progression Feat should be Extra Ki, which would come on-line at the same time your Ki pool comes into play for your 3rd level of Ki Mystic Monk.
perhaps a half-elf would serve that better? +2 against enchantments, can trade in skill focus for iron will, and immune to sleep. the half elf has ever been a contender in my thoughts.
Arni Carni
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By the way, I am not trying to optimize your character class (or classes), I am trying to optimize your character CONCEPT, which is not the same thing. He won't be the best ever Inquisitor/Monk, but he will be able to do the things you want him to do by the time you get to level 5.
Arni says, "Sorry, my friend here was hiding behind my substantial assets, and just decided to chime in".
| Renegadeshepherd |
It's kind of cheesy but you could dip one level into Synthesist Summoner and use the evolution points for skills. You can get an 8 point bump on a selected skill. You wouldn't use it all the time, just when you wanted to use the specific skills. Since you can't use armor, it wouldn't be something you would want to do all the time. Just when you wanted to turn on the charm.
I just think it would be kind of a cool image. Like in a movie where the sunlight suddenly glints off someone's teeth. If I ran the game that's how I would do it, not some weird biped or quadruped.
how does the synthesis work specifically as it relates to the skills? is the eidilon clearly visable the whole time? would I decide cosmetically how it looks on me?
This suggestion offers the possibility of converting multiple attributes whereas what I came up with only converted charisma to wisdom for some skills. now im back to square one .
The black raven
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Devs' answer to FAQ on the Synthesist :
"If the synthesist's eidolon has the Skilled evolution, the synthesist gains the bonus to that skill."
Answers to your other questions :
Synthesist archetype (UM) : "Instead of appearing as a separate creature next to the summoner, the eidolon appears around the synthesist, so that the synthesist seems to be inside a translucent image of his eidolon."
Summoner base class (APG) : "The eidolon’s physical appearance is up to the summoner, but it always appears as some sort of fantastical creature. This control is not fine enough to make the eidolon appear like a specific creature. The eidolon also bears a glowing rune that is identical to a rune that appears on the summoner’s forehead as long as the eidolon is summoned."
I have seen nothing that would help a synthesist hide the fact that he is fused with an eldritch creature.
| Trogdar |
A sensei build is a very effective debuff character due to enormous stunning fist DC's. You basically want to buff the party and then run in and stun your opponent so the rest of the party can kill it at their leisure.
Take ability focus stunning fist and crushing blow when they become available. Crushing blow will decimate a bosses armor class instead of shutting him down for one round.
| Deylinarr |
Actually, James Jacobs is one of those who say that you cannot add an ability modifier twice unless you have something that specifically says that you can add it twice (not the case here).
Might not specifically say "ok to 2x WIS" but the text of both sounds like they should work together (IMHO).
You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier when making Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks.
I read this as saying Wisdom becomes the 'normal modifier'.
At 1st level, the infiltrator’s will is bent toward subterfuge and deception. She adds her Wisdom modifier on Bluff and Diplomacy skill checks in addition to the normal ability score modifiers.
Bold mine....just my 2cps, but it seems that the archetype is agnostic to what the normal modifier is (doesn't say "add WIS to CHA"). Would make sense since there are multiple things that allow you to replace CHA for these kinds of checks, and there is nothing that says the archetype cares what the normal modifier is, just add WIS to it in addition.
The black raven
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Well, the same could be said about Fury's fall (add DEX to CMB) and Agile Maneuvers (use DEX instead of STR for CMB).
And JJ's answer was NO.
Note that I feel that if that is the Devs' intent, then they should rephrase the feats that say "add ABILITY to xxx" to make it clear that these feats do not allow you to get the ABILITY modifier twice.
But then I am not Paizo staff ;-)
Ferious Thune
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Infiltrator gives up Stern Gaze, though that's less important if you're only going two levels of Inquisitor.
I'm not sure why you're only going two levels of Inquisitor, though, if your focus is on being a face type character. More Inquisitor levels=more skill points, Bane, higher Judgements. If you want to stay Unarmed Strike, as mentioned, you can worship Irori. (Not sure about Bane and Unarmed Strike, but I think it works. If your GM says no, then Bane is less worthwhile).
Dipping a level of Monk would give you Wis to AC and a d6 unarmed strike. It delays your payoff a level, but add in Bane, Judgment of Destruction, Divine Favor, Precise Strike, and at 6th level you'll be potentially doing 1D6+2D6 Bane+2 Enhancement from Bane+3 STR+2 Judgment+2 Divine Favor+1d6 Precise Strike (if flanking) or 4D6+9 (or 3D6+9 if no flank) for 5 rounds a day and 2D6+9 (or 1D6+9 if no flank) the rest of the time. You'll have an extra 8 skill points and an extra +2 to Intimidate and Sense Motive from Stern Gaze if you stay away from Infiltrator. Buy a Monk's Robe when you can afford it, and your Unarmed Strike goes to 1D8 and you get a +1 AC bonus. Maybe not optimal for damage, but certainly not bad, and it will sure help your skills in the long run. Take it out to 13th and you're looking at an extra 24 ranks and +6 to Intimidate and Sense Motive.
It also gives you access to more Inquisitor spells like Honeyed Tongue and Perceive Cues that give nice bonuses in face type situations.
The Conversion Inquisition looks like a winner for giving Wis to all three main face skills.
The Heresy Inquisition is an alternative. It gives Wis to Bluff and Intimidate (but not Diplomacy), and at 4th level is lets you roll two dice up to your Wis times a day for Bluff or Diplomacy (but not Intimidate). I'm not really sure why its two abilities don't affect the same skills, but that's a pretty nice boost.
| Renegadeshepherd |
Infiltrator gives up Stern Gaze, though that's less important if you're only going two levels of Inquisitor.
I'm not sure why you're only going two levels of Inquisitor, though, if your focus is on being a face type character. More Inquisitor levels=more skill points, Bane, higher Judgements. If you want to stay Unarmed Strike, as mentioned, you can worship Irori. (Not sure about Bane and Unarmed Strike, but I think it works. If your GM says no, then Bane is less worthwhile).
Dipping a level of Monk would give you Wis to AC and a d6 unarmed strike. It delays your payoff a level, but add in Bane, Judgment of Destruction, Divine Favor, Precise Strike, and at 6th level you'll be potentially doing 1D6+2D6 Bane+2 Enhancement from Bane+3 STR+2 Judgment+2 Divine Favor+1d6 Precise Strike (if flanking) or 4D6+9 (or 3D6+9 if no flank) for 5 rounds a day and 2D6+9 (or 1D6+9 if no flank) the rest of the time. You'll have an extra 8 skill points and an extra +2 to Intimidate and Sense Motive from Stern Gaze if you stay away from Infiltrator. Buy a Monk's Robe when you can afford it, and your Unarmed Strike goes to 1D8 and you get a +1 AC bonus. Maybe not optimal for damage, but certainly not bad, and it will sure help your skills in the long run. Take it out to 13th and you're looking at an extra 24 ranks and +6 to Intimidate and Sense Motive.
It also gives you access to more Inquisitor spells like Honeyed Tongue and Perceive Cues that give nice bonuses in face type situations.
The Conversion Inquisition looks like a winner for giving Wis to all three main face skills.
The Heresy Inquisition is an alternative. It gives Wis to Bluff and Intimidate (but not Diplomacy), and at 4th level is lets you roll two dice up to your Wis times a day for Bluff or Diplomacy (but not Intimidate). I'm not really sure why its two abilities don't affect the same skills, but that's a pretty nice boost.
Wow that was a lot to add. Thx for putting that effort in.
I find myself at a crossroads now. Thx to the many quality posts here I've got much of what I need but now I have a tough choice. Synthesist maxes out the face, the I quixotic maxes the skills and adds well to the face, while the monk is CONCEPTUALLY what I wanted for battle. However I do not think these three can be blended together adequately.
Ever since sunbeam suggested a synthesist dip Ive been leaning towards this. While this has great advantages it is also very limiting in some ways as a biped has 12 DX and so ranged builds (the inquisitors best build) is shot. So I'm trying to figure out for myself if I should go inquisitor based on strength and two handed weapon OR go monk based kind mystic and unarmed strike ( ki mystic too.)
How deadly is a synthesist in battle? How high do u all rate em? Normally I'd stick with the inquisitor and monk idea I started with but a synthesist with bare minimum effort can give me the same skills as the succubus at level one. That's hard for a face to resist. +8 from eidolon, +3 or better CHA mod, class skill through cosmapolitan +3, one rank, is 15-20 on level one depending on specifics.
Sigh. Such good options.
| The Artaxerxes |
If you don't mind being sort of underpowered, go wizard (you won't look threatening), and take levels in loremaster. They are, as evident by their name, skill monkies especially when it comes to knowledge. Better yet, be a sorcerer for the high charisma for diplomacy. Look at the prestige class loremaster though, great for skills, as they get lots of skill points.
| Trogdar |
If your going to dip and then go synthesist, I would take the monk dip. You will still have a pretty obnoxious level of face potential, but you will be very hard to kill. I would take master of many styles for the crane feats and use your point buy for high mental ability scores. you should be able to get an extra four or five armor out of it immediately, and more as you level.