Failing to complete a scenario.


Pathfinder Society

Sovereign Court

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If the party at any given PFS table fails to complete the scenario, would that also go against the GM's chronicle sheet as well as the players'? Just curious as I've just had my first experience of failure.

1/5

I think the GM still gets theirs. Was it the GM's fault you failed the mission?

5/5

No. If it did, there would be incentive for the GM to softball a scenario and just hand over a "win" to the party for their own gain. The GM chronicle credit is pretty much independent of how the table plays out.

Sovereign Court

Kinda the GM's fault. 4 man party with 2 brand new players using pre gens. GM failed to "guide" the brand new players IMHO. i.e. GM: "Well new player, being that you are looking at the BBEG on the roof in front of you you should consider using potion of fly, rather then sit there with a dumbfounded look on your face." Just seems like if the GM was alot more involved with helping the BRAND NEW players, they invited to the table, to use pregens that made the party have a fighter(noob), rouge(noob), barbarian 9 (me), and caster 9ish (other guy that knew what he was doing. At the very least the pregens should have rounded out the party with a cleric or something. I'm just very disappointed with the way the scenario was judged is all. I'll get over it soon enough. I realize everyone makes mistakes. Just sucks the scenario had a decent boon.

Sovereign Court

Kinda the player fault too as we also had access to the pre gen sheet to guide the new players as well.

Grand Lodge 5/5

This is clearly explained in the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play version 4.3 on pages 39-40 under "Game Master Rewards".

4/5

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Hakak the Half Orc wrote:
Kinda the GM's fault. 4 man party with 2 brand new players using pre gens. GM failed to "guide" the brand new players IMHO. i.e. GM: "Well new player, being that you are looking at the BBEG on the roof in front of you you should consider using potion of fly, rather then sit there with a dumbfounded look on your face." Just seems like if the GM was alot more involved with helping the BRAND NEW players, they invited to the table, to use pregens that made the party have a fighter(noob), rouge(noob), barbarian 9 (me), and caster 9ish (other guy that knew what he was doing. At the very least the pregens should have rounded out the party with a cleric or something. I'm just very disappointed with the way the scenario was judged is all. I'll get over it soon enough. I realize everyone makes mistakes. Just sucks the scenario had a decent boon.

The first mistake was that two pregen level 7s were being played in a 5-9 or 7-11 by completely first-time RPG players at all.

Sovereign Court

Not saying there wasn't mistakes made, I should have bowed out knowing that there was 2 noobs. Just trying to take the diplomatic approach before I start crying like a little school girl and making assumptions that are not true. (No offence to any school girls that may be on these messageboards.)

Again just bummed out being that this is the first time I have "failed" a mission.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

...Could you define "failed"?

Sovereign Court

Didn't beat the BBEG.

Party couldn't handle the last encounter and ended up running out of the dungeon.

GM crossed out the boon on the chronicle sheet adjusted the gold and reported as no XP no PP. My PC in particular died and was resurected mid scenario as per the GM, history on paizo shows "Character died." even though I finished the scenario by running out of the dungeon. I received no PP and no XP. I did finish the faction mission but not the scenario mission. I'm so confused right now and trying very hard not to get too upset about it.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Hakak the Half Orc wrote:

Didn't beat the BBEG.

Party couldn't handle the last encounter and ended up running out of the dungeon.

GM crossed out the boon on the chronicle sheet adjusted the gold and reported as no XP no PP. My PC in particular died and was resurected mid scenario as per the GM, history on paizo shows "Character died." even though I finished the scenario by running out of the dungeon. I received no PP and no XP. I did finish the faction mission but not the scenario mission. I'm so confused right now and trying very hard not to get too upset about it.

Hm, a few things:

1) Receiving XP is not contingent upon finishing the last encounter. If you participated in at least 3 encounters, you get 1 XP, even if the third one was a TPK.

2) Although misleadingly-labeled, the "Character Died" checkbox in reporting is meant for PCs that stayed dead and are no longer legal to play in the campaign.

3) Running from the last fight might or might not cost you PP. If you completed your faction mission, you get that 1 PP regardless. If the scenario was from a season where there was only 1 faction mission, then the second PP will have explicit success conditions in the scenario which may or may not include defeating the BBEG.

You should probably read (or re-read) relevant sections of the Guide to Organized Play, compare them to your own experiences (after all, I wasn't there), and if something seems amiss, politely bring it to your GM's attention (directly, not here on the messageboards) in case corrections need to be made.

Grand Lodge 5/5

I was not there and do not have the GM's side of it, but based on your statements you should have received 1 XP (for completing at least 3 encounters), 1 PP for completing your faction mission, and whatever gold your PC found/earned.

If your PC was alive at the end of the adventure, then the "Character Died" checkbox should not have been checked when reporting the table. That is only for characters that remain dead at the end of an adventure.

If you believe the GM marked your Chronicle and the Tracking sheet incorrectly, I suggest speaking, very diplomatically to them about it. If after any resolution with the GM, you still feel the rules were not followed, I suggest talking to your local venture officer (or the nearest one available).

EDIT: Jiggy: I do not believe dying during an encounter counts as completing that encounter.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Don, unless the scenario was different than any other PFS scenario I have ever seen or played, there are going to be enough encounters during the scenario that dying during an encounter, and running from the final encounter (which still completes that encounter, by the way) would still allow for the completion of three other encounters.

I don't recall seeing many, if any, PFS scenarios without at least 6 acts in them. Non-combat encounters still count as encounters.

Also, as a side-note, it is possible to die during an encounter, and still be alive by the end of the encounter to complete it. Breath of Life, for one example which is available at the tier the original poster mentioned, allows dying to become not-dying during an encounter.

==========================

As Jiggy mentioned, XP is dependent on completing 3 encounters. Completing doesn't always mean beating them, just surviving through them. Running away still counts as completion.

Also as Jiggy mentioned, PP can still be earned, even without completing the scenario. It depends on succeeding on the conditions for each PP. PP can be earned as early, apparently, as during the VC briefing, and scenarios from Seasons 0-2 can even have a PC earn both PP without succeeding at the Pathfinder Society mission.

Also, gold earned should be equal to the total gold available, minus any gold you would have earned for any encounters not successfully completed. Unfortunately, in a lot of cases, the BBEG has a significant portion of the monetary value, but there is almost certainly some money gained in earlier encounters.

And, on the boon, whether or not it should be available really depends on the boon itself. Some of them require success at the PFS mission, some of them are curses gained for failing, or succeeding in a non-optimal way. And, sometimes, a boon might be earned just by encountering a specific NPC.

And, as mentioned, that Character Died checkbox should only be checked if the character was not brought back, somehow, from the dead by the end of the session. That checkbox would also be checked if the PC were turned evil without getting an Atonement[//i] or equivalent to bring them back to at least Neutral by the end of the session. It should probably be renamed to [i]Character no longer playable in Pathfinder Society or equivalent.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Off topic...
On the subject of what counts for completing an encounter.

During GenCon I was playing in a group that was running long and near the end of the slot we had only completed 2 encounters and were fighting in the third. The encounter was going very poorly and we grabbed our dead comrades and ran. We ran out of time and were not able to continue. We asked Mike if running away from a combat encounter counted as completing. He said No, so we were not going to get any exp for the scenario.

We did end up finishing it later in the hotel, but if it was left at that according to Mike running away does not count as completing an encounter.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Well, if you think of it in terms of a non-PFS game, you're only supposed to get xp for monsters/NPCs you defeat. Just facing them and running away isn't enough, though you don't necessarily have to fight and kill them to win the encounter.

Grand Lodge 5/5

@kinevon, please note I never said anything about running from an encounter.

However, I believe the understanding is that you get the XP for completing 3 encounters successfully. Whether that is through combat, diplomacy, puzzle or trap smithing, or some other creative means, the assumption is the encounters are completed with success.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

not so Don. In the standard game, you get experience for a trap whether you disable it (success) or fall into it (failure).

And characters that die during an encounter, still receive the XP for that encounter.

There is no reason to believe that PFS works any differently other than the fact that XP is given at 1 per Scenario instead of X amount per encounter.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I'm not seeing "successfully" in the quote, just "completed".

Dark Archive

Jiggy wrote:
I'm not seeing "successfully" in the quote, just "completed".

As the GM for Dragnmoon's table who asked Mike, completion is definitely measured as "successfully defeated or bypassed".

So, talk past, shoot through, cause to flee your overweening power.... are all completion.

Run away dragging bodies and trailing expended consumables? Not completion.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

Regarding the 3 encounter caveat: Also note that social encounters count toward this as well. Otherwise you'd have games like [redacted] where there are only two combat encounters and no traps, and it would be impossible to get XP from them.

Redacted:

*Fortress of the Nail only has two combats in it -- the third is optional*

Project Manager

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Removed a bunch of ad hominem stuff. If you have a personal disagreement with someone, please resolve it via PM or email -- the boards are not the appropriate place to do so. If you believe someone is behaving inappropriately, please flag it and move on; you may also contact one of the moderators via PM if you feel it's necessary.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

So I've been pouring through the PRD the last hour or two, and I can't find the language I was sure was there. It may be an artifact of my memory from 3.0/.5 haunting me.

But I was sure that there was specific language that indicated if you died in an encounter, you got the experience from that encounter if you were able to find some way to come back alive (raise dead, resurrection, etc.)

The only language I see though, is:

PRD: Designing Encounters wrote:
Keep a list of the CRs of all the monsters, traps, obstacles, and roleplaying encounters the PCs overcome. At the end of each session, award XP to each PC that participated.

So unless there is specific language somewhere that indicates that participation in an encounter doesn’t count toward one of the 3 you need to get your XP, then I will consider the Core Rulebook the final authority on the matter.

I know the Guide indicates 3 completed encounters.

So if an entire party starts, but does not finish an encounter, that encounter cannot be considered completed. However, if a TPK happens in the 3rd encounter, that encounter, by all rights, has been completed (unsuccessfully, but completed.) If they party flees, and then finds a way around the 3rd encounter, and continues on with the scenario, but for some reason can’t start or finish encounter #4, encounter #3 should be considered completed, because they bypassed it, even though the bypassing started with fleeing.

I’m sure there will be a certain level of table variation here. But lets not be overly brutal.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Per your quote from the PRD, they only get XP for encounters they "overcome", and everyone who participated gets the XP.

So if a PC dies in the 3rd encounter, but the rest of the group manages to win the fight, then they all get the XP, even the dead guy. He participated, even if his participation was just to take the killing shot, and the encounter was overcome. So if he manages to come back from the dead, he'll have learned from the experience.

If they flee the 3rd encounter and end the adventure right there, then nobody gets XP, because the 3rd encounter wasn't overcome.

If they bypass the 3rd encounter, either before or after fleeing from it, then I'd agree that it counts as overcoming it.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Fromper wrote:

Per your quote from the PRD, they only get XP for encounters they "overcome", and everyone who participated gets the XP.

So if a PC dies in the 3rd encounter, but the rest of the group manages to win the fight, then they all get the XP, even the dead guy. He participated, even if his participation was just to take the killing shot, and the encounter was overcome. So if he manages to come back from the dead, he'll have learned from the experience.

If they flee the 3rd encounter and end the adventure right there, then nobody gets XP, because the 3rd encounter wasn't overcome.

If they bypass the 3rd encounter, either before or after fleeing from it, then I'd agree that it counts as overcoming it.

I agree with this. The sticking point is traps. You don't really overcome a trap if you just fall into it and live. Unless you consider living, overcoming.

Paizo Employee Developer

A sprung trap is considered overcome, whether the target lives or dies. A disabled trap is considered overcome. A trap that you discover and avoid by walking around it or whatever is considered overcome. If you never open the trapped door because you just never went there, the trap is simply not encountered and is therefor not overcome.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Thanks Mark.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Interesting. So if a party blindly stumbles into a trapped door and many of them die (and recover) from some BOOM! effect, they get credit for encountering and OVERCOMING the trap. However, if a party decides to use dim door or shape stone or whatever to pass through a section of wall prior to encountering the trap, technically (and unknowingly) they did not encounter it, so did not overcome it, therefore, no XP. Hmmmm...

Paizo Employee Developer

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Interesting. So if a party blindly stumbles into a trapped door and many of them die (and recover) from some BOOM! effect, they get credit for encountering and OVERCOMING the trap. However, if a party decides to use dim door or shape stone or whatever to pass through a section of wall prior to encountering the trap, technically (and unknowingly) they did not encounter it, so did not overcome it, therefore, no XP. Hmmmm...

No. If you use character resources to get past a trapped door without triggering the trap (and without even knowing about it) you've still overcome the challenge. If you, however, never turn left at the fork in the hallway and thus never find the trapped chest at the dead end down that hall, you didn't bypass the trap, you simply never encountered it.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

ahhh, and in that case, you would "lose" both credit for the encounter AND the treasure contained therein. Thanks Mark

Dark Archive 3/5

without the success definition for an encounter, i will have my cheliax summoned imp peek his head around the corner, see the undead beholder, and return to me to tell me what he saw. do that for 2 more encounters as we drink at the tavern and bam, xp!

i think you have to complete (via various means, combat or otherwise) an encounter to have it count towards the three.

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