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I saw a thread similar to this, but I can't find it now. :(
I'm getting ready to kick off my PFS scenarios, and one of my players was considering a wizard. I'll be running mostly Season 3 scenarios, because, well; that's what I have.
There seems to be concern about the lack of spellbooks available, which of course means a wizard is going to be stunted leveling up with limited spells in their book. Am I wrong about this?
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I saw a thread similar to this, but I can't find it now. :(
I'm getting ready to kick off my PFS scenarios, and one of my players was considering a wizard. I'll be running mostly Season 3 scenarios, because, well; that's what I have.
There seems to be concern about the lack of spellbooks available, which of course means a wizard is going to be stunted leveling up with limited spells in their book. Am I wrong about this?
According to the PFS FAQ wizards can copy spells from generic NPCs for 50% of the scribe cost. So you don't actually have find scrolls and spell books to learn new spells, it just a little cheaper when you do.
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I've heard one of the biggest draws for building a wizard's spell book is from other PCs who are wizards. While this doesn't work too well with small groups, it would have bigger benefit for those playing at conventions or game days with a broader player pool (assuming there are enough wizards there to take advantage of this).
If I am not mistaken, and I may be as I've never played a wizard, you can copy spells from scrolls. So while it would be not as cost effective, all of the scrolls you can get from low levels can eventually be copied into one's spellbook. But again, that's only if you can indeed copy spells from scrolls.
You still get 2 spells per level, you can get spells off spellbooks and scrolls you find, and the spell books from other players. How much those pop will vary between characters greatly.
A sorc and wizard of the same level have the same caster level. At odd levels after 1st he'll have 1 spell level over, if that's what you meant badger.
Edit: I should note if you prestige and your a prepared arcane caster, it does cost you an arm and a leg.
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At worst they'll end up like a sorceror with a better caster level.I saw a thread similar to this, but I can't find it now. :(
I'm getting ready to kick off my PFS scenarios, and one of my players was considering a wizard. I'll be running mostly Season 3 scenarios, because, well; that's what I have.
There seems to be concern about the lack of spellbooks available, which of course means a wizard is going to be stunted leveling up with limited spells in their book. Am I wrong about this?
Actually, almost any wizard should start with more level 1 spells than a sorcerer, so even that worst case scenario is better than a sorc.
In general, I like sorcerer bloodlines better than wizard schools, but the variety of spells for a wizard, along with all their skills, make them a different and interesting class to play.
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At worst they'll end up like a sorceror with a better caster level.I saw a thread similar to this, but I can't find it now. :(
I'm getting ready to kick off my PFS scenarios, and one of my players was considering a wizard. I'll be running mostly Season 3 scenarios, because, well; that's what I have.
There seems to be concern about the lack of spellbooks available, which of course means a wizard is going to be stunted leveling up with limited spells in their book. Am I wrong about this?
Actually, almost any wizard should start with more level 1 spells than a sorcerer, so even that worst case scenario is better than a sorc.
In general, I like sorcerer bloodlines better than wizard schools, but the variety of spells for a wizard, along with all their skills, make them a different and interesting class to play.
The loading for spell choice is different for the classes.
Sorcerers have a more limited list of spells known, but a much deeper ability, in some ways, to cast them.
Wizards have a wider variety of spells to choose from, but, in general, a much shallower ability to cast any particular spell as often as it might be needed.
Sorcerer knows X spells of Y level, and can cast up to Z times, split as needed amongst those spells.
Wizard has X spells of Y level written in his spellbook, but can only prepare Z number of spells, total, split among them. If he wants to cast more than one Magic Missile, for example, he has to burn multiple slots learning it.
Overall, a Sorcerer with a good spell selection is more likely to use up all their spell slots in an adventure; but a Wizard who can "forecast" their adventure needs can cast a few spells that might be a slightly better fit for the specific need.
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Ah that might be the oportunity how others would handle that a wizard who tries to divine at the start of the scenario, which spells he might need, so he can prepare usefull spells.
The players idea is that the GM then has to tell him which spells he should prepare, in order to be "really" prepared. Like a spiderclimb, or that he knows fire spells won´t be any help today, etc.
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Ah that might be the oportunity how others would handle that a wizard who tries to divine at the start of the scenario, which spells he might need, so he can prepare usefull spells.
The players idea is that the GM then has to tell him which spells he should prepare, in order to be "really" prepared. Like a spiderclimb, or that he knows fire spells won´t be any help today, etc.
I'm not sure I'd phrase it as "GM has to tell him". Suggestions, yes. Then again, unless you're running with newbs (which I'm not), you should know what to do with the knowledge you have. If there's no reason for the pcs to know they might even -think- about fighting someone with fire resistance, for example; well, crap happens. If the PC should know, I have no problem with that. (I.e.; "The VC said you're going to Irrisen. You know it's cold up there, might want to prep Protection from Elements.")
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I just finished a scenario where my Wizard definitely carried her weight.
Starting off with a mix of buffs (for her and the group): I put up Protection from Arrows (Communal), Protection from Eneryg-Fire (Communal), Bullet Shield (Extended), Mage Armor (Extended), Overland flight with a Haste in reserve. (Not that it was neaded.. high level Summoners are fun with a 2nd level Haste to cast. :D )
In the actual scenario fights we got ambushed by a BUNCH of Red Mantis Assassins. She unloaded with an Empowered Fireball that literally vaporized one monster and left her sister open for a piddling 12 point hit from one player. All but ONE Assassin missed the 22 DC save and were either hurt or a smokey shadow on the floor. The players didn't hurt a bit of damage due to the protections.
One of the other fights started with a Battering Blast blowing two mooks off a cliff and a Hydralic Push leaving an Assassin feather falling down the waterfall. Till she flew out and hammered him with a magic missile.
Wizards are VERY useful, but some of the other posters are right. You have to plan out things. I mixed up a mix of elemental evocations (she's an admixture wizard) and force effects with either scrolls or utility spells to fill out the mix.
Here is a mix of her current spells (I have 2 1st level, 2 2nd level and 1 4th open right now), 3 Pearls of Power (1st level), Several metamagic rods (Selective(Lesser), Rime (Lesser), Reach (Lesser) and Merciful). Between my tiefling's favored class option bumping her versatile evocation to 13/day, the rods and other items it lets her put down a pretty nasty mix of spells. I'm still experimenting with Necromatic spells (I just got Oppposition Research (Necromancy))
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 10):
5 (3/day) Overland Flight, Fireball, Empow (DC 22), False Life, Greater, Extend, Lightning Arc (DC 24)
4 (5/day) Burning Arc, Empow (DC 21), Burning Disarm, Empow, Inten (DC 19), Burning Arc, Empow (DC 21), Protection from Arrows, Communal, Extend, Protection from Energy, Communal
3 (5/day) Fireball (DC 22), Fireball (DC 22), Bullet Shield, Extend, See Invisibility, Extend, Ray of Enfeeblement, Empow (DC 19), Battering Blast (DC 22)
2 (6/day) Scorching Ray, Burning Disarm, Inten (DC 19), Mage Armor, Extend, Burning Arc (x2) (DC 21), Lipstitch (DC 20)
1 (6/day) Magic Missile, Hydraulic Push, Enlarge Person (DC 19), Burning Disarm (DC 19), Snowball (DC 19)
0 (at will) Ray of Frost, Read Magic, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation (DC 18)
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My level 8? Wizard's book has somewhere around 50 non-Cantrip spells in it, thanks to buying a few scrolls and playing with another Wizard a couple times. Definitely worth it.
And don't forget..with the new rules on spell purchasing you get more bang for your buck.. but the FIRST action I do with a Wizard at the table with me is compare spells.
A MUST do action for any wizard of any level!
My level 8? Wizard's book has somewhere around 50 non-Cantrip spells in it, thanks to buying a few scrolls and playing with another Wizard a couple times. Definitely worth it.And don't forget..with the new rules on spell purchasing you get more bang for your buck.. but the FIRST action I do with a Wizard at the table with me is compare spells.
A MUST do action for any wizard of any level!
Magus too! If I remember right anyway.
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Magus too! If I remember right anyway.My level 8? Wizard's book has somewhere around 50 non-Cantrip spells in it, thanks to buying a few scrolls and playing with another Wizard a couple times. Definitely worth it.And don't forget..with the new rules on spell purchasing you get more bang for your buck.. but the FIRST action I do with a Wizard at the table with me is compare spells.
A MUST do action for any wizard of any level!
Definitely. I offer any Magi or Witches a glance..though the way I understand it.. Witches can't recipocate. Neither can Alchemists.
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Definitely. I offer any Magi or Witches a glance..though the way I understand it.. Witches can't recipocate. Neither can Alchemists.Magus too! If I remember right anyway.My level 8? Wizard's book has somewhere around 50 non-Cantrip spells in it, thanks to buying a few scrolls and playing with another Wizard a couple times. Definitely worth it.And don't forget..with the new rules on spell purchasing you get more bang for your buck.. but the FIRST action I do with a Wizard at the table with me is compare spells.
A MUST do action for any wizard of any level!
You are correct; they cannot.
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Aram Zey is in several Season 3 scenarios and might be a nice "mentor" for your wizard.There are many words that I would use to describe Aram Zey. "Nice" is not one of them. ;-)
Well, better than when I offer new first level PCs a chance to be "special friends" with Adril Hestrom (who is described as lecherous with the less experienced pathfinders in Seekers of Secrets).
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So...just off the topic on the top of the thread.
Are wizards worth it?
YES!
The most difficult thing I have to deal with among all my players...are them dern wizards.
They can do things...powerfully painful things...things! THINGS!
Let me say...animal growthed, dire tiger, smiting demons.
Wall in the way? No problem. Enemy fled to where? Teleport...no problem.
They can solve almost everything with a few well placed spells. They are the lex luthors of the adventuring world. Give them enough time, and they can take down superman.
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So...just off the topic on the top of the thread.
Are wizards worth it?
YES!
The most difficult thing I have to deal with among all my players...are them dern wizards.
They can do things...powerfully painful things...things! THINGS!
Let me say...animal growthed, dire tiger, smiting demons.
Wall in the way? No problem. Enemy fled to where? Teleport...no problem.
They can solve almost everything with a few well placed spells. They are the lex luthors of the adventuring world. Give them enough time, and they can take down superman.
Lex Luthor never took down Superman. Batman, on the other hand, managed to knock Supes down more than once...
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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So...just off the topic on the top of the thread.
Are wizards worth it?
YES!
The most difficult thing I have to deal with among all my players...are them dern wizards.
I've heard that whenever someone says emergency force field at your table you start sobbing now; is this the case?
Or is that only with control winds?
=P
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You are correct; they cannot.Definitely. I offer any Magi or Witches a glance..though the way I understand it.. Witches can't recipocate. Neither can Alchemists.Magus too! If I remember right anyway.My level 8? Wizard's book has somewhere around 50 non-Cantrip spells in it, thanks to buying a few scrolls and playing with another Wizard a couple times. Definitely worth it.And don't forget..with the new rules on spell purchasing you get more bang for your buck.. but the FIRST action I do with a Wizard at the table with me is compare spells.
A MUST do action for any wizard of any level!
Two witches can reciprocate with each other, though -- their familiars teach the spells to each other.
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Two witches can reciprocate with each other, though -- their familiars teach the spells to each other.You are correct; they cannot.Definitely. I offer any Magi or Witches a glance..though the way I understand it.. Witches can't recipocate. Neither can Alchemists.Magus too! If I remember right anyway.My level 8? Wizard's book has somewhere around 50 non-Cantrip spells in it, thanks to buying a few scrolls and playing with another Wizard a couple times. Definitely worth it.And don't forget..with the new rules on spell purchasing you get more bang for your buck.. but the FIRST action I do with a Wizard at the table with me is compare spells.
A MUST do action for any wizard of any level!
They get familiar with each other?
I always wondered how that worked. Do they just go over and start sniffing each other's butts, or is there some other method?
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Are wizards worth it?
Oh for sure!
My slow specialist wizard does an amazing job of neutralizing threats. I can't wait for him to get the cooler high level spells, too, like telekenesis and disintegrate, since he is transmutation specialized anyway because of slow. It's so exciting to get a new selection of spells...so many more things your character can do!
However, I will say that a wizard is much trickier to play than most classes, so make sure your player is aware of that.
But don't let my advertising detract someone from a sorcerer. Those can be just as potent as a wizard. I prefer a large spell selection myself that the wizard offers, and like intelligence-based characters so I am good at knowledges, but I understand the power of many spells per day and high charisma as well.
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So...just off the topic on the top of the thread.
Are wizards worth it?
YES!
The most difficult thing I have to deal with among all my players...are them dern wizards.
I've heard that whenever someone says emergency force field at your table you start sobbing now; is this the case?
Or is that only with control winds?
=P
...how many trees did you kill with your druid? HOW DOES IT FEEL!?!?!??! HUNH!!!! HUNH!!!!!
...I hate wizards too. Unless I'm playing them. Then their awesome.
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I personally think that the sorcerer is better suited for PFS scenarios. Two real pillars of the wizard's strength are minimized in PFS. Wizards have lots of extra feats that are good for crafting. Secondly, their ability to adapt to a given situation by coming back the next day or next week with the right spells ready is rarely of any use either.
This is not to say that wizards can't do very well in PFS. I'm just saying that wizards are even better in homebrew, whereas the sorcerer is very much the same in both.
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David, I would say it a little differently...
Wizards are somewhat less potent if they do not have the chance to re-memorize their spells, as they have to stay relatively general in the spell selection. If they have the chance to tune their selections, then they can be much more powerful.
Sorcerers have their innate advantages (more castings per day per spell level, can cast any spell at any time assuming they have castings left), but do have significant disadvantages (very few spells known, slower progression to higher level spells).
I personally think that the differences come down to play styles (I personally don't care for spontaneous casters in general due to the lack of choices).
However, both are greatly aided by having a proper set of expendables ready, especially scrolls. Now, in a homebrew game, the Wizard would win out here by a long shot, as he could write his own scrolls, preparing a veritable arsenal of utility at half price, but PFS doesn't give us that option.
This has actually been an interesting thread for me, as I am in the process of building a new character (have GM credits to spend), and was thinking that an arcane caster would be a good choice, as I've got three characters already that are focused on mundane combat.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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So...just off the topic on the top of the thread.
Are wizards worth it?
YES!
The most difficult thing I have to deal with among all my players...are them dern wizards.
I've heard that whenever someone says emergency force field at your table you start sobbing now; is this the case?
Or is that only with control winds?
=P
...how many trees did you kill with your druid? HOW DOES IT FEEL!?!?!??! HUNH!!!! HUNH!!!!!
...I hate wizards too. Unless I'm playing them. Then their awesome.
TREEEEEBEEAAAARDDDDD!!!!
Best 7th player ever.
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Wizards are somewhat less potent if they do not have the chance to re-memorize their spells, as they have to stay relatively general in the spell selection. If they have the chance to tune their selections, then they can be much more powerful.
One trick that I've picked up is whenever I'm playing a prepared caster in a scenario, ask the GM if I would have time to prepare spells after the mission briefing. If there's large amounts of traveling time or some other reason that would let me reprepare spells, then I can tailor them to the mission at hand. If the GM says no, I load my generics in and am ready to go.
I personally think that the differences come down to play styles
This is a big part of it. The various casters all have a different feel and you can build them very differently. There are lots of small little differences that can be big in the long term. Oracles have a ton of class features, but if you pick a mystery or curse you don't like life can be rough. Spontaneous casters face an important decision with spell selection(though human favored class helps). Sometimes a school power is something that really pulls you in. Witches can be played almost exclusively with hexes, though I don't suggest it, the ability to spam hexes endlessly can be much different than going through a spell list that you fire and forget.
I usually play casters. Which one to play and what class features to pick are big. Spell selection is defining, but I feel prepared is much easier to deal with that, even in PFS where it doesn't feel as easy to know every spell. I've played games where you don't get any spells beyond what you learn as a wizard, and they're still pretty fun. Spells are powerful things.