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Case in point - if I have a character wielding a rapier (threat range 18-20 right off the bet), and then want to apply the two following additions:
1) the rapier has the "keen" magical property
2) the character has the "improved critical" feat
each of these effects "doubles" the crit range. Does that mean the first makes the rapier have c range of 16-20, and then the second makes it 12-20?! what am I missing?
Case in point - if I have a character wielding a rapier (threat range 18-20 right off the bet), and then want to apply the two following additions:
1) the rapier has the "keen" magical property
2) the character has the "improved critical" feateach of these effects "doubles" the crit range. Does that mean the first makes the rapier have c range of 16-20, and then the second makes it 12-20?! what am I missing?
You can apply only one OR the other.
Keen - Notice it says, "This benefit doesn't stack with any other effects that expand the threat range of a weapon (such as the keen edge spell or the Improved Critical feat)."
Improved Critical - Notice it says, "This effect doesn't stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon."
When you "double the range" it doubles the number that are allowed to threat.
20 adds 1 = 19-20 when doubled
19-20 adds 2 = 17-20 when doubled
18-20 adds 3 = 15-20 when doubled
15-20 is the absolute MAX in range you can get and only if you have the 18-20 weapon and add Keen OR have the Imp. Critical feat.
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They don't stack. However, to answer your question, if you had one of those on an 18-20 crit range weapon then the crit range becomes 15-20. Look at it like this. Originally you would need an 18-19-20 to qualify for a crit (3 numbers). If you double that it becomes 6 numbers so 15-16-17-18-19-20. Does that help?
The Keen special ability does not stack with any other effect that expands the threat range. So you have to choose one.
As for the math, if I am correct, the threat range for a Rapier with either the Keen special ability or Improved Critical feat, turns it into a 15-20. Because 18-20 is three steps (18, 19, and 20). Doubling that would be another three steps (15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20).
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Well first off, these two effects do not stack.
This ability doubles the threat range of a weapon. Only piercing or slashing melee weapons can be keen. If you roll this property randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll. This benefit doesn't stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon (such as the keen edge spell or the Improved Critical feat).
Attacks made with your chosen weapon are quite deadly.
Prerequisite: Proficient with weapon, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: When using the weapon you selected, your threat range is doubled.
Special: You can gain Improved Critical multiple times. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
This effect doesn't stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon.
(I'm probably going to get ninja'd for digging up those quotes)
Second, doubling the crit range means you double the amount of numbers that provoke a crit. In the case of 18-20, it goes to 15-20.
18
19
20
= 3 numbers
15
16
17
18
19
20
= 6 numbers
EDIT: Yep, ninja'd
Heh, I think Lord Snow gets the point. It looks like a bunch of us all responded within a few seconds of each other with the exact same answer.
But what I truly need to know, and I am not sure it has been answered yet... is do they stack? ;)
Gotta love rapid fire responses!
But I agree ub3r_n3rd, Lord Snow should have gotten the point... and it was probably a critical! lol
Haha! I almost spit my tea all over my screen reading this.
So if I swing dagger with crit range of 19-20 and I roll a 19 is that a possible crit.
Yep.
But not an auto-hit.
So if I swing dagger with crit range of 19-20 and I roll a 19 is that a possible crit.
Whew, that's a two-year revive on this one. This topic is very old.
Interestingly, it is now possible to have a 14-20 crit range with the Inspired Blade archetype, but only at level 20. I think this may be the only way to have a range greater than 15-20