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I was just wondering oh how to maximize survivability through sheer save enhancement and possibility of AC.
From my ideas, I was thinking of a Dwarf with the Iron Soul Feat and the Glory of Old Trait.
With that, you start at Level 1 as a Void Wizard to gain Void Awareness.
So at level 1, against Spells and Spell-like Abilities:
4 - Iron Soul
1 - Glory of Old
2 - Void Awareness
+7 on Saves against Spells and Spell-like Abilities.
With that, I was considering heading into Paladin to gain Divine Grace at Level 2 (CL 3).
And pushing Survivability over damage, since looking at this I would focus this on a Lay on Hands support class, I place the Attribute Points into this:
Str: 9
Dex: 10
Con: 18 (16+2)
Int: 7
Wis: 10 (8+2)
Cha: 16 (18-2)
So with this the saves would be at:
Fort: 4 (CON) + 0 (WIZ) + 3 (PAL) + 3 (DIV) = 10 + 7 vs. Spells
Ref: 0 (DEX) + 0 (WIZ) + 0 (PAL) + 3 (DIV) = 3 + 7 vs. Spells
Will: 0 (WIS) + 2 (WIZ) + 3 (PAL) + 3 (DIV) = 8 + 8 vs Spells
Should I aim to focus more on the Paladin with the Lay on Hands? Should I dip into a Master of Many Styles for 2 levels to gain Evasion/Crane Wing/+3 to Saves? I am putting this out there to see what would people do in this situation.
If you add high ac to those high saves no one will be able to harm you.
However, if no one can harm you, no one will want to target you.
What do you plan on doing offensivly to make the bad guys want to target you so you can make use of those good saves?
I've always liked barbarians for high saves and AC. Superstitious with a human or dwarf is nifty, and you don't have to go out of your way or doing anything special beyond grabbing the superstitious rage power.
Edit: I would highly suggest against going wizard with 7 int and playing with no ability to hurt anyone.
Hmmm.. well you do have high saves there for sure but there is a nother way to go. Barbarian.
Barbarians get superstition that grants you quite nice saves against just about anything non mundane and is better than the void wizard in regards to survivability especially with an int of 7. Barbarians also get more hps, rage bonuses to con (better fort saves), a rage bonus to will saves and are naturally better at combat especially melee where you will make the most of those saves.
Assuming you do go barbarian, the choice of human or dwarf is next. Dwarves get better saves early game while humans get better saves late game.
Dwarf: Glory of old (1) Iron soul (+4) superstition (+2, +1 every 4 levels) =7 +1/4 level
Human: superstition (+2, +1/4 level), favored class bonus (+1/3 level) =2 +1/4 level +1/3 level and has 2 extra feats and 1 extra trait. You could spend that on iron will, lightning reflexes and a trait to boost fort saves. At level 12 they come out even with the human having +1 ref and will save.
Sadly you cannot have both barbarian and palidin due to alinment restrictions.
You can go 2 levels of monk first to gain more ac and crane style but I dont think it is worth it for what you trade off.
Going invulnerable barbarian also grants you DR. Lots of DR. dragon totem can grant you +6 DR and improved dr grants +3 and stalwart can grant up to 10. This can be a good subsitute to AC, instead of things hitting you less often, they hit you for less damage. You can potentially have 19 +1/2 level DR.
Ghost rager takes your superstition saves and applies it to your touch AC, now gunslingers and ghosts cant hurt you.
Courageous weapons add 1/2 the enchantment to all moral bonuses. Rage; str, con, will saves. superstition and ghost rager are moral bonuses. Anything the bard gives you is a moral bonus.
A +4 courageous greataxe gives you +2 str, con, +2 will saves, +2 to all saves vs magic, +4 touch AC (ghost rager gets boosted twice!), +2 to fear, paralysis and sleep effects (dragon totem).
Alternatively you could use a +2 furiously courageous greataxe and save 18 000 gold.
Dont forget iron will, lightning reflexes, great fortitude and raging vitality.
Halfling with racial save bonuses, and paladin/monk.
Dwarven Monk (sohei) with light brawling armor and a reach weapon. At lvl 4 you always act in a surprise round and can boost you AC by 4 with a ki point. Engage foes at all ranges (with javelins at range) and rarely (if ever) fail a save. 3 good saves, +2 racial boost vs magic, +2 to con and wis, and evasion as a built in class feature... Will laugh at your paladin... Often...
lets build an example here.
Lvl.1 Human barbarian
Str: 16 (18)
Dex: 14
Con:14
Int:8
Wis: 14
Cha: 7
Traits: Carefully hidden, Deft dodger. +1 will, reflex, +2 saves against divination.
Feats: Power attack, Iron will. +2 will saves
rage bonuses: +4 str, +4 con, +2 will
Fort: 2 (base), +2(stats), +2(rage)
Ref: 0(base), +2(stats), +1(trait)
Will: 0(base), +2(stats), +2(rage), +2(iron will), +1(trait)
Msc:
Lvl.2: superstition
Lvl.3: endurance
Lvl.4: animal fury
Lvl.5: diehard
Lvl.6: dragon totem
Lvl.7: stalwart
Lvl.8: dragon totem resilence
Lvl.9: extra rage power, ghost rager
Lvl.10: dragon totem wings
Lvl.11: raging vitality
Str: 18 (22 raging): +2 racial
Dex: 14
Con:14 (18 raging)
Int:8
Wis: 14
Cha: 7
Traits: Carefully hidden, Deft dodger. +1 will, reflex, +2 saves against divination.
Feats: Power attack, Iron will. +2 will saves
Rage powers: Superstition. +2 saves against spells
rage bonuses: +4 str, +4 con, +2 will
Fort: 3 (base), +2(stats), +2(rage), +2(superstition)
Ref: 0(base), +2(stats), +1(trait), +2(superstition)
Will: 0(base), +2(stats), +2(rage), +2(iron will), +1(trait), +2(superstition)
Msc:
Str: 17 (22 raging): +2 racial +1 for level +1 for weapon while raging
Dex: 14
Con:14 (19 raging) +1 for weapon while raging
Int:8
Wis: 14
Cha: 7
Traits: Carefully hidden, Deft dodger. +1 will, reflex, +2 saves against divination.
Feats: Power attack, Iron will, endurance, diehard. +2 will saves
Rage powers: Superstition, animal fury, dragon totem. +5 saves against spells, +1 saves for sleep, paralysis and fear
rage bonuses: +4 str, +4 con, +2 will
Fort: 5 (base), +2(stats), +2(rage), +5(superstition),, +2(cloak) +1(weapon)
Ref: 2(base), +2(stats), +1(trait), +5(superstition), +2(cloak), +1(weapon)
Will: 2(base), +2(stats), +2(rage), +2(iron will), +1(trait), +5(superstition), +2(cloak), +1(weapon)
Msc:
Items: +1 courageous greataxe, +2 cloak of resistance
Str: 20 (28 raging): 16 base +2 racial +2 for level +2 for weapon while raging
Dex: 16: +2 belt
Con:16 (26 raging): +2 belt +2 raging vitality +2 for weapon while raging
Int:8
Wis: 14
Cha: 7
Traits: Carefully hidden, Deft dodger. +1 will, reflex, +2 saves against divination.
Feats: Power attack, Iron will, endurance, diehard, stalwart, extra rage power: ghost rager, raging vitality. +2 will saves, 3 DR while fighting defensivly, +2 con while raging
Rage powers: Superstition, animal fury, dragon totem/resilience/wings, ghost rager. +7 saves against spells, +3 saves for sleep, paralysis and fear, DR 6, 22 fire resistance, +7 touch AC
rage bonuses: +6 str, +6 con, +3 will
Fort: 7 (base), +3(stats), +5(rage), +7(superstition), +3(cloak) +2(weapon)
Ref: 3(base), +3(stats), +1(trait), +7(superstition), +3(cloak), +2(weapon)
Will: 3(base), +2(stats), +3(rage), +2(iron will), +1(trait), +7(superstition), +3(cloak), +2(weapon)
Msc:
Items: +2 furiously courageous greataxe, +3 cloak of resistance, +2 belt of physical might (dex/con)
Phew! that is done, now to add a few notes to my calculations.
When calculating the resistances for Lvl 6 and 11, it might seem off, that is because of the courageous weapon making calculating it difficult.
For example, Lvl 6 will: both the will save bonus from raging and superstition get affected by the courageous weapon. It bumps up your will save bonus from +2 to +3 and superstitions bonus from 5 to 6. Note that both of them are moral bonuses, so they dont stack.
As such; 2 base will, 14 wisdom, iron will, trait and cloak =9 (2+2+2+1+2)
2 base will, 14 wisdom, iron will, trait, cloak and rage =12 (2+2+2+1+2+(2+1)) as rage gets boosed by courageous
2 base will, 14 wisdom, iron will, trait, cloak and superstition =15 (2+2+2=1+2+(5+1)) because the rage bonus does not stack with superstition.
It gets even more complicated when you get to fortitude for level 11 because courageous is strong enough to bump up your con score granting you another point of fort.
7 base fort, 16 stats and the +3 cloak =13 (7+3+3)
7 base fort, 16 stats, +10con rage and the +3 cloak =18 (7+3+(3+1+1)+3)
7 base fort, 16 stats, +10con rage , superstition and the +3 cloak =27 (7+3+(3+1+1)+(7+2)+3). You get to add the weapon enhancement twice because the two moral bonuses affect different stats (con and fort).
When you get to ghost rager, it is tricky again. Ghost rager actually gets the bonus from courageous twice.
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian deals normal damage to incorporeal creatures even when using nonmagical weapons. She also gains a morale bonus to touch AC equal to her saving throw bonus from her superstition rage power.
2 things to note here, 1 she gains a moral bonus (affected by courageous), 2 it is equal to her saving throw bonus from superstition. Superstition also gets boosted, because courageous is not a moral bonus in of it self, rather it boosts other bonuses.
So superstition gets boosted and that becomes your saving throw bonus. Ghost rager takes this augmented saving throw bonus and uses it as a seperate moral bonus witch then gets augmented by courageous. Therefore 7+2=9. 9+2=11.If I was going to do this myself I would probably take a level in unbreakable fighter somewhere between level 3 or 4 to get both endurance and die-hard for stalwart without taking up 2 feats. It would set all my powers behind a level but I think the tradeoff would be worth it.
I included 3 points in acrobatics because that increases your dodge by 1 when you use the fight defensivly action, granting 1 more point of dr.
I very much doubt anyone has gotten to this point as this turned out really long winded, but if you have, Thanks for reading! I imaginge that this will mostly be used for my own needs sometime down the road but would be great if it benefited anyone else.
Cheers!
So quick recap,
27 fort save
19 ref save
20 will save
DR 14
28 fire resistance
3 cold resistance
+11 touch AC
All at level 11.
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If you add high ac to those high saves no one will be able to harm you.
However, if no one can harm you, no one will want to target you.
What do you plan on doing offensivly to make the bad guys want to target you so you can make use of those good saves?
Reconsidering focusing on offense, There is always the possibility of being a Warrior of Holy Light with the Oath of Vengence, efficiently using Smite Evil. This can be a similar output like Damocles Guile's Build here
I'm looking at this from a different point - all those scenarios that involve the undead. You can't be spelled but you can be leveled,diseased, cursed, poisoned, and shot by a simple arrow. You can be jinxed too.
Experimenting with this as a paladin, paladins can level up to be immune to disease. Being a dwarf and having the Hardy (prereq to Iron Soul) and Glory of Old, it gains a +3 against Poisons, on top of the +10 Fortitude that it gets for being a 2+ Paladin with 16 CHA. If it is a magical poison, then it ramps up to 17+3 Fortitude at Character Level 3.
And your enemies...I suppose you plan on looking at them harshly?
I am a dwarven pally, short and stout. I can't hit you for crap, and you can see me pout. =(
I would highly suggest against going wizard with 7 int and playing with no ability to hurt anyone.
Having the +2 against spells was nice, even though I will have no chance to cast a single wizard spell. What I see as a bonus to this is the familiar, which can be converted to "Improved Initiative/Alertness" on a stick with a compy or greensting scorpion.
Halfling with racial save bonuses, and paladin/monk
Half-orcs' Alternate Racial Traits can also give a +1 Luck on Saves as well! Both can be viable as a paladin/monk =)
I'd personally go with a champion of Iori. Dwarf or halfing for some racial bonuses to saves, then add Monk levels + Paladin bonuses, maximize wisdom and charisma. You get lots of smiting, and bonuses from multiple classes, two stats that you focus on, and you get enough damaging options that it should help some.
That seems like a good idea, especially with the Smite Chaos, since in PFS, they might pull away from evil characters in Season 5.
Dwarven Monk (sohei) with light brawling armor and a reach weapon. At lvl 4 you always act in a surprise round and can boost you AC by 4 with a ki point. Engage foes at all ranges (with javelins at range) and rarely (if ever) fail a save. 3 good saves, +2 racial boost vs magic, +2 to con and wis, and evasion as a built in class feature... Will laugh at your paladin... Often...
They both will never get hit, they will always pass their saves. WE NEED MORE!!!
BARBARIAN!!!!!
That is a really nice build. With the one I had planned out myself for the paladin (only up to level 9, no gear bonuses), I have this:
Fortitude: 14+7
Reflex: 6+7
Will: 12+7
+7 is against Spells and Spell-Like Abilities
I did not add any feats that would increase any saves. Rather I had planned out a build that would let the Paladin use Ultimate Mercy to Raise Dead at a cost of a temporary negative level (no monetary cost) for 10 Lay on Hands Charges (have 11 at level 9).
So, you're taking a level of wizard to gain a bonus to saves, but you only have an Int of 10? So, no 1st-level spells? Then paladin, followed by monk? Is this a serious character concept or just a thought experiment? I could understand the latter, but...
Need more what? Dmg? Take snake style with my monk and every miss against you turns into an AoO. Brawling armor and weapon training in monk weapons with a +1 AoMF gets you +4 to hit and dmg with unarmed strike. You won't power attack a foe to death, but you will more than sting them.
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So, you're taking a level of wizard to gain a bonus to saves, but you only have an Int of 10? So, no 1st-level spells? Then paladin, followed by monk? Is this a serious character concept or just a thought experiment? I could understand the latter, but...
Oh, its a really horrendous thought idea. With the INT, I can drop the CON to 14, so the INT can be brought up to 11, but even with that, the spell failure rate with Full Plate and a Heavy Shield would be at 50% without any upgrades to the gear. The familiar give +4 initiative, as well as a +2 to Perception, though it really doesnt matter much.
Need more what? Dmg? Take snake style with my monk and every miss against you turns into an AoO. Brawling armor and weapon training in monk weapons with a +1 AoMF gets you +4 to hit and dmg with unarmed strike. You won't power attack a foe to death, but you will more than sting them.
Oh, I did not mean that your monk is not powerful enough (though it seem that it can push it really high), what I meant was to have more nigh-invincible characters to make a walking fortress party that could possibly take even the strongest of Runelords, if that is saying a bit much. =)
Oh... Ok. Don't get me wrong, he isn't perfect, and is still as MAD as any monk, but he IS a survivor.
There is also the possiblity of going Oracle for Sidestep secret, using Cha instead of Dex for AC and reflex saves.
I also want to second Paladin for Cha to saves, Lay on Hands for HP, and those immunities they get.
Paladins have a poor base reflex save, but iirc most spells with reflex saves do hitpoint damage, and with d10HD, Lay on Hands and decent Con, tanking a few of those shouldn't be so bad.
Is there not a Paladin archetype that has access to a Domain?
The Protection Domain would help.
Sacred Servent gains one, but at a -3 penalty and no way to bring it back up.