A good spell for spell perfection / magical lineage?

[Xavier319]

I know that fireball is the old standby, but this character is not much of a blaster. He's more a utility wizard, who's job is to make sure he has the solution the party needs at all times. The metamagic feats he's going to have are Persistent, Dazing and Quicken spell. I was thinking either the new spell, Burst of Radiance, Ball Lightning, or Fireball. He is a wood school, so Sirocco is level 4, instead of six, so it's worth a look, though tying the Dazing save to Fort makes it a less optimal choice. Bottom line here, is that I'm not trying to be uber powerful, just have a good signature spell that I can make sure is effective without any damage metamagic (though I plan on having empower and maximize rods).

Thanks!

[anarchitect]

Dazing ball lightning is pretty sweet: 4 round dazing effect targeting reflex save, on two lightning balls that you can direct each round as a move action, is bad-ass battlefield control. One casting of that per combat first round of combat, and you can keep casting other standard action spells while playing with them. With spell perfection it's a pretty sweet use of a 4th level spell slot.

[Xavier319]

True. I like the new Spell burt of radiance though. 2nd level, targets ref, also does some damage and blinds. that means you can tie dazing to it, which is pretty awesome. I'm thinking of getting spell perfection in both that and ball lightning. and magical lineage in burst of radiance, to allow me to manipulate it easier and earlier with metamagic.

[Fake Healer]

You could get a rod of dazing, then save your feat for energy substitutions....can't daze what you can't hurt and at higher levels alot of foes have immunity to electric/fire/cold. Just a thought.

[Xavier319]

True, but the rod of energy sub is waaaay cheaper than the rod of dazing. i'd rather spend a higher level spell slot, rather than spend 30k+ more gold.

[Rogar Stonebow]

I like magical lineage toppling feat and spiritual ally. Sense your spiritual ally is a force spell combining it with toppling allows you to make multiple trip attacks with a single casting of the spell.

Spiritual weapon runs a close second for the same reasons. Except with spiritual weapon its easy to have multiple ones out ganging up from multiples once your at a higher level.

[Darkflame]

black tentacles :-)

its kinda high lvl but its stil nice to cast it quiqened and selective :-)

[Psion-Psycho]

Toppling Spell Metamagic feat + Magic Missile + Improved/greater Trip = fun. I used that combo to greatly help the damage out put of the forward melee classes and reduce the opportunity of enemies making full round attacks. Later on i used spell perfection so i could add quicken spell to toss out 14 missiles a round.

[7heprofessor]

Are you planning on having a familiar? If so, Burning Gaze is an every-battle spell to cast and Share Spell it with your Familiar to have it do something awesome every round. A Dazing Burning Gaze rocks especially when you get high enough level to Quicken it.

Either way...just my 2 cp.

[Rogar Stonebow]

Psion-Psycho wrote:

Toppling Spell Metamagic feat + Magic Missile + Improved/greater Trip = fun. I used that combo to greatly help the damage out put of the forward melee classes and reduce the opportunity of enemies making full round attacks. Later on i used spell perfection so i could add quicken spell to toss out 14 missiles a round.

That is why I like Spiritual weapon. You get a lot more out of your toppling feat and spell. Level 9 magic missile will get you 5 missiles of auto hit. Which is good for arcane.

For a divine caster +6 BAB as a level 9 Spiritual weapon will get you 18 attacks if only half hit, that is 9 chances at tripping. plus your doing a bunch more damage.

[Atarlost]

I think Enervation deserves a look. Spell Perfection will double the effect of (greater) spell penetration so you'll usually get through that weapon focus: ray so you can hit more reliably. With Spell Perfection you can quicken it, or you can maximize it instead. Then with your victim suffering severely reduced saving throws you can do whatever you want.

Really, though, I don't think spell perfection is necessarily a must have for non-blasters. If you don't know what you want to do with it maybe you should look into other things you can do with a feat slot.

[Psion-Psycho]

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

Psion-Psycho wrote:

Toppling Spell Metamagic feat + Magic Missile + Improved/greater Trip = fun. I used that combo to greatly help the damage out put of the forward melee classes and reduce the opportunity of enemies making full round attacks. Later on i used spell perfection so i could add quicken spell to toss out 14 missiles a round.

That is why I like Spiritual weapon. You get a lot more out of your toppling feat and spell. Level 9 magic missile will get you 5 missiles of auto hit. Which is good for arcane.

For a divine caster +6 BAB as a level 9 Spiritual weapon will get you 18 attacks if only half hit, that is 9 chances at tripping. plus your doing a bunch more damage.

I like Spiritual weapon for the most part. The only real problem i have with it, other than using the caster's bab, is that it can be dispelled. Other than that it is great force spell for divine casters. Shame paladins dont get it because that would be awesome.

[Rogar Stonebow]

Psion-Psycho wrote:

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

Psion-Psycho wrote:

Toppling Spell Metamagic feat + Magic Missile + Improved/greater Trip = fun. I used that combo to greatly help the damage out put of the forward melee classes and reduce the opportunity of enemies making full round attacks. Later on i used spell perfection so i could add quicken spell to toss out 14 missiles a round.

That is why I like Spiritual weapon. You get a lot more out of your toppling feat and spell. Level 9 magic missile will get you 5 missiles of auto hit. Which is good for arcane.

For a divine caster +6 BAB as a level 9 Spiritual weapon will get you 18 attacks if only half hit, that is 9 chances at tripping. plus your doing a bunch more damage.

I like Spiritual weapon for the most part. The only real problem i have with it, other than using the caster's bab, is that it can be dispelled. Other than that it is great force spell for divine casters. Shame paladins dont get it because that would be awesome.

Unsanctioned knowledge fixes that actually

[Psion-Psycho]

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

Psion-Psycho wrote:

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

Psion-Psycho wrote:

Toppling Spell Metamagic feat + Magic Missile + Improved/greater Trip = fun. I used that combo to greatly help the damage out put of the forward melee classes and reduce the opportunity of enemies making full round attacks. Later on i used spell perfection so i could add quicken spell to toss out 14 missiles a round.

That is why I like Spiritual weapon. You get a lot more out of your toppling feat and spell. Level 9 magic missile will get you 5 missiles of auto hit. Which is good for arcane.

For a divine caster +6 BAB as a level 9 Spiritual weapon will get you 18 attacks if only half hit, that is 9 chances at tripping. plus your doing a bunch more damage.

I like Spiritual weapon for the most part. The only real problem i have with it, other than using the caster's bab, is that it can be dispelled. Other than that it is great force spell for divine casters. Shame paladins dont get it because that would be awesome.

Unsanctioned knowledge fixes that actually

Awesome i so know what im gonna do with my next paladin lol. Thanks.

[Rogar Stonebow]

Psion-Psycho wrote:

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

Psion-Psycho wrote:

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

Psion-Psycho wrote:

Toppling Spell Metamagic feat + Magic Missile + Improved/greater Trip = fun. I used that combo to greatly help the damage out put of the forward melee classes and reduce the opportunity of enemies making full round attacks. Later on i used spell perfection so i could add quicken spell to toss out 14 missiles a round.

That is why I like Spiritual weapon. You get a lot more out of your toppling feat and spell. Level 9 magic missile will get you 5 missiles of auto hit. Which is good for arcane.

For a divine caster +6 BAB as a level 9 Spiritual weapon will get you 18 attacks if only half hit, that is 9 chances at tripping. plus your doing a bunch more damage.

I like Spiritual weapon for the most part. The only real problem i have with it, other than using the caster's bab, is that it can be dispelled. Other than that it is great force spell for divine casters. Shame paladins dont get it because that would be awesome.

Unsanctioned knowledge fixes that actually

Awesome i so know what im gonna do with my next paladin lol. Thanks.

NP

[Rogar Stonebow]

also look at the spell spritual ally, this spell will allow you to create a flanking buddy that can also be used with the toppling metamagic feat, and can also be used with unsanctioned knowledge. Also look into the Wayang Spell Hunter trait. It is just like Magical Lineage, but only for spell levels 1 - 3. Use this one for spiritual weapon and magical lineage for spiritual ally.

[andreww]

For Dazing Ball Lightning is great but so is Fire Snake and Chain Lightning. With Chain Lightning/Magical Lineage you can also now Quicken it.

For save or suck Flesh to Stone is a great choice as Magical Lineage again brings it into Quicken range.

[andreww]

Atarlost wrote:

Really, though, I don't think spell perfection is necessarily a must have for non-blasters. If you don't know what you want to do with it maybe you should look into other things you can do with a feat slot.

This is just wrong. Spell Perfection is quite possibly the single best feat for any full caster because it allows repeated quickened spells using relatively low level spell slots compared to the level you get it.

Save or Suck casters get to force multiple saves on their enemies, probably 3 per round combining a Persistent spell then a Quickened one significantly increasing the chances of getting something to stick.

Battlefield controllers get to layer effects on the enemy making it highly unlikely they can do much of anything. Enjoy trying to escape that Black Tentacles while choking to death in a Cloudkill.

Buffer and support casters love it because you get all your buffs up quickly. That's Blessing of Fervour/Haste and Communal Resist Energy/Spell Immunity/Spell Resistance etc on round 1.

Yes you can do some of this with a Rod of Quicken but Rods are expensive, limited in use and take up a hand slot you may not have free.

Frankly if you could take Spell Perfection multiple times there would be a strong argument for every caster taking it for every feat slot from level 15 onwards.

[yeti1069]

Xavier319 wrote:

True. I like the new Spell burt of radiance though. 2nd level, targets ref, also does some damage and blinds. that means you can tie dazing to it, which is pretty awesome. I'm thinking of getting spell perfection in both that and ball lightning. and magical lineage in burst of radiance, to allow me to manipulate it easier and earlier with metamagic.

Which spell is that?

[Xavier319]

burst of radiance. It is from the new book about good guys.

it's a good spell. does damage with no save, and some 10' burst with a blinding effect that's avoided by a ref save. 2nd level. wizards and clerics. it's really awesome.

[bfobar]

Does Spell Perfection Double the numeric effects on things like the Spell Penetration Metamagic feat? Because that would get you +8 against spell resistance if it did.

Also, does it double the caster level bonus from +2 to +4 of spell specialization, and double mage's (varisian) tattoo?

Does it do anything to heighten spell?

Am I missing any other oddball feats that spell perfection would apply to?

[Mirrel the Marvelous]

bfobar wrote:

Does Spell Perfection Double the numeric effects on things like the Spell Penetration Metamagic feat? Because that would get you +8 against spell resistance if it did.

Also, does it double the caster level bonus from +2 to +4 of spell specialization, and double mage's (varisian) tattoo?

Does it do anything to heighten spell?

Am I missing any other oddball feats that spell perfection would apply to?

Yes to all, except Heighten. All it does with Heighten is use the original spell level.