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Okay, a buddy of mine is looking to join our Red Hand game.
He has a concept in mind, but is not that familiar with Pathfinder.
Concept includes:
"Divine Warrior".(Something that casts Divine Spells"
"Tanky"(Can wear Heavy Armor, functional in melee)
"Slings holy fire"(Fireball is a must)
Also, worship Sarenrae, and cannot be LG, and only "Human-like" Races.
As for parameters: 25 point buy, and all Pathfinder material and races allowed.
Any suggestions?
The only thing that comes to mind is a flame oracle. But for the heavy armor its going to take a dip or a feat. Also point them towards the glorious heat feat. Not that strong but the flavor of it is wounderful for this concept.
The only other option might be a crusader cleric with the fire domain. they will be better in melee but the amount of fire spells will be very limited do to only one domain slot per lvl (where the oracle just flat get the spells to his spell list.)
The other two options being the paladin and inquisitor don't seem to have a way to get fireball (that I can find anyway.) and even if the paladin could the save would be low and they would take forever to get it. Inquisitor would be a great option if I could find a way to get them the fire spells. Maybe there is a way out there that I missed.
As always, starting level and expected finishing level would be useful.
I would go Theologian Cleric, focusing on Str and Wis, and go in with heavy armor and longspear.
For scimitar builds, it seems you can get +3 max dex in mithral full plate, +6 in Celestial Plate Armor (a steal at a mere 25k), and there's nothing else worth taking in that department.
Also, since healing is not central to the concept, consider variant channeling - there are a few nice abilities.
Too bad they don't like LG. Other than the fireball thing Paladin does it all, and even then Smite Evil can be flavored with holy flame bursting with each strike. At level 5 Divine Bond even lets you add the Flaming quality to your weapon!
EDIT: Paladins are especially tanky with Lay on Hands (swift action on self) giving hundreds or thousands of extra hp to work with each day!
How desperate are they to cast Fireball? It is a third level spell, so it would take at least 5 levels to get it.
Would they be happy with a wand of Fireball?
So, options:
Possibly learn to cope with Lawful Good and take Paladin.
Use a wand of fireball and CLWs to get that divine spellcasting feel. Requires either UMD skill or a dip into cleric/oracle (fire domain) to get Fireball on the spell list. Other levels go to, say, fighter, for more melee ability.
Go mostly Cleric/Oracle for more spells, with a dip or feat to use heavy armour.
EDIT:
I forgot about archetypes! If any Cleric ones give heavy armour proficiency then that + Fire domain is a decent solution. Pupsocket's suggestion then might be good.
I still think Paladin with a Wand of Fireball (maybe a level dip) is good. Lawful Good is not so bad.
You might wanna see if you can get him to play a Samaran character, and use the Mystic Past Life trait to open up Fire-based spells fopr classes that don't ewasily get them. They also get +2 to Wisdom, which the Ifrit and Suli (the other races that easily go Pyro) don't and most Dvine spellcasters need (with the obvious exception of the Ortacle). A Suli Oracle with the Firehand trait could also hurl some fire pretty easily.
Theologian Cleric is a good catch there. I was not familiar with the archetype. It certainly fixes the problem of once a day domain slots and the metamagics are a nice bonus. Now are they nice enough to be better then the flame revelations? IMO I would say no but that is just me. Of course prepared > spontaneous most of the time so cleric has that going for it. But then again some people just like spontaneous more and with things like human alternate favored class bonus and half-elf paragon surge the power gap between the two types of casting is much smaller then it was in say 3.5.
In the end I am of the opinion that Flame Oracle has more of the holy fire feeling wheres the cleric just feels more like a battle cleric that happens to have some fire spells. What I mean by this is the oracle it feels more like a core part of the build. Cleric it feels like a side note.
Well, this is a 14 level PC, so early level problems are not an issue.
Well, that's one level away from Spell Perfection and "Quickened Intensified Dazing Fireball" as a 3rd level spell.
Well since its not a channel focused build nor at the domain powers worth anything most alternate favored class bonuses are no use.
So really its human for an extra feat since he will need heavy armor proficiency. Half-elf if he would like to use an exotic weapon or half-orc if he likes two handed weapons.
I can't find much of a reason for the other races. Granted dwarves +2 on saves is always good no matter who you are and alright states for this build but well I have a hard time recommending them for anything heh. Personal taste there tbh.
I love Aasimar as a channel focused cleric but honestly I am seeing little value in them here. Not horrible but not any real benefit. Though if that is what the player wants the lose of one feat is manageable.
Hmm, some gut-reaction suggestions are:
Stats before racial bonus
Str 16
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 16
Cha 10
Could dump Int and maybe Cha a bit.
Possibly go for the alternate racial trait and put a bonus into both strength and wisdom.
Some feats could be Toughness, Elemental Focus (Fire) and maybe School Focus (Evocation).
Probably not 'ideal' yet but a decent starting point for discussion, I hope.
Is he concerned with doing very good melee damage or just being alright in melee? If the later guided hand feat can help lessen the need for a high str. Though I would still go at least 14. I would really say 16 wis. Sadly cha might have to be sacrificed so channeling will take a back seat big time.
There is also the option of a dervish dance build I suppose but its feat heavy and many people get up in arms over it. Still to make this less MAD I would go ether guided hand or DD. Or perhaps the weapon enchantments that do the same thing (though I really dislike basing a build on itemization.)
As for traits I think there is one that adds to consternation checks while casting defensively? The name wont come to me atm. Also if he somehow does end up with a fair cha dangerously curious comes to mind. Od course reactionary is a crowd favorite as well.
As for other feats as I mentioned glorious heat is not a strong feat but it does certainly fit the feeling of this build very well. Combat casting is he finds he will be casting in melee range a fair bit and well just the everyday combat feats. Antagonize might also be to his liking.
Are you sure you will need to make concentration checks?
Couldn't he just 5-foot step backwards and cast a spell without being in a threatened square?
If any opponent has those Step Up feats then this character cna just beat them up, as our build is meant to be decent in melee.
Anyway, a more extreme and min-maxed stat array (before racials) could be:
Str 17
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 17
Cha 7
Putting the 3 attribute increases for the first 12 levels into Str, Wis and maybe Cha.
I personally have found the "can just take a 5 foot step" does not work nearly as well in practice. Really do to a whole host of things. Terrain, multiple enemies having you threatened in the squares you could move to, Reach, step up, backed into a corner and so on. Now I never said it was top priority by any means. Just said it was something to consider.
As I said if it was me building it (well I would use flame oracle but if I didn't.) I likely would go guided hand or DD. Still its workable without as Salindurthas has shown with this ability score array. I personally would go with the first one as I dislike dumped scores but that's personal taste.
Another feat to consider is elemental spell for the times fire just wont cut it. Though it might go against the concept.
Maybe this before racials, with the +1s being from leveling.
Str 17 +1
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 17 +1
Cha 7 +1 Don't tell him you originally dumped this stat this far :)
This build wouldn't actually lose any skill points if it dumped Int to 7, so I'd dump to 7 then put Dex to 12 for that +1 AC and Reflex.
EDIT: Ha, that would be the same stat array I suggested before.
A dip into Barbarian or Fighter could get you a higher first hit die and access to martial weapons (not sure if you actually need that due to archetyping, though).
You could go the other way and go mostly a martial class, but dip into spellcasting class for the Wand of Fireball without a UMD check. Not too sure on the mechanics for wand spell levels, though, so the damage might suck without sinking a lot of money into it.
Yeah, basically, beat things that are close, and burn things farther away.
Go Paladin and use Divine Bond to enchant the bow to be flaming and holy (if it isn't already). No fireball required :)
Come on, get your friend to be Lawful Good, do the right thing! hehehe
is homebrew allow? if so then this is what your just looking for LINK
Oooh, just saw an idea in another thread.
As far as I can tell, the bonuses from smite evil apply to splash weapon attacks.
Holy Alchemist Fire! Burn the evil!
Even more reasons to be a Paladin, haha :)
One of my players in Kingmaker is a theologian/holy vindicator. He gets his fire spells and the holy vindicator class lets him wear heavy armor and channel into his shield, giving him a pretty obscene AC.
half elven oracle of flame is the best solution.
you get a lot of fireballs, revelations to enchance your fire balls.
i like half elf best in this case because it sounds like the player wants a good weapon. take half elf- take the trait ancestral arms, then take heavy armor with your first level feat. plus you get immunity to sleep, a bonus to save on enchanments, a bonus to preception and low light vision.
its better than human because he has to use another feat anyway to pick up a good weapon. so overall the half elf ends up on the winning side.
I haven't got much experience thinking about Oracle stats and feats, but I guess I'd naively suggest a similar statline to before with charisma and wisdom swapped.
I suppose the same feats would apply too, as I picked them based on concept, and the concept has not changed.
For the Oracle of Flame, the most important quetion is: Are you going to run around as a humanoid, or as a big honkin' fire elemental?
My vote would be for the Flame Oracle as well.. For flavor i would suggest a Peri Blooded Aasimar.. It doesnt get the str bonus, but for his wanted flavor its top imo.. Aasimar allows for the awesome fav class of +1/2 to 1 rev.. Picking molten skin would give him Fire Immunity at his level, but heat aura or fire breath would also benifit from it.. Casting as a Fire Ele, is certainly legal.. If he really wants to get redic he could dip 1 level into cross blood sorc for +2dam/dice to fire spells.. As far as heavy armor goes the feat will take care of that, as well as eschew mats for elemental castings.. Sounds like he wants to mix up melee and ranged fire spells, so having power attack with divine power/righteous might would be solid picks as well.. Otherwise a spell perfection fireball route might be in order.. Take magical lineage and wayang spellhunter,(fireball both) for added cheese..
Pyromancer race trait would make it +3dam/dice with crossblood gold dragon/primal fire ele.. Boosh! Oops read wrong, only +1 extra, not +1/dice.. Not so Boosh...
You could re-flavor the tongues curse for ignan..
If the rest of the party already speaks Celestial or Ignan, the tongues curse wins. Wasted could be flavored as lines of fire constantly tracing his skin. If they like being truthful, legalistic from the tiefling book is nifty.
Dual curse oracle is pretty burly if they take two of these soft curses, that misfortune revelation is groovy.
Attributes could be s14+2, d12, c14, i10, w8, ch16.
Spell focus evo, spell spec burning hands could work for feats. Or heavy armor prof and extra revelation.
Okay, this player has never played an Oracle.
Which Curse would be both best for the build, and easy to deal with?
Haunted does nothing wrist sheaths can't fix and gives very nice spells in return.
Tongues never penalizes you, it penalizes your group--each other player needs to spend 1 rank in linguistics to learn the language you're forced to speak. Ok, so there's a minor penalty in that you can't use Language-Dependent spells effectively (like Murderous Command, for example), but that's kind of it. Though, admittedly, you get almost no power from it.
Blackened is sweet for a fire blaster, but if he wants to be a weapon fighter, it's not the best path. I did get clarification in the past from a developer, though, that the penalty to weapon attacks was meant to only apply to manufactured weapons, so natural weapons and spells were unaffected.
Legalistic is pretty much not a penalty at all unless you wanted to make an especially dishonest character, and it provides a decent, if rare, bonus.
Haunted doesn't affect weapons, unless said weapon is in your backpack.Okay, this player has never played an Oracle.
Which Curse would be both best for the build, and easy to deal with?
Haunted does nothing wrist sheaths can't fix and gives very nice spells in return.
Tongues never penalizes you, it penalizes your group--each other player needs to spend 1 rank in linguistics to learn the language you're forced to speak. Ok, so there's a minor penalty in that you can't use Language-Dependent spells effectively (like Murderous Command, for example), but that's kind of it. Though, admittedly, you get almost no power from it.
Blackened is sweet for a fire blaster, but if he wants to be a weapon fighter, it's not the best path. I did get clarification in the past from a developer, though, that the penalty to weapon attacks was meant to only apply to manufactured weapons, so natural weapons and spells were unaffected.
Legalistic is pretty much not a penalty at all unless you wanted to make an especially dishonest character, and it provides a decent, if rare, bonus.
Yes, but it does affect wands. ;)
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If going cleric i think a single dip of Sorcerer with the Crossblooded archetype might be good. The 2 bloodlines being Efreeti and Draconic Red would be best. Efreeti's arcana makes it whenever you cast a spell that deals energy damage, you can change the type of damage to fire. This also changes the spell’s descriptors to match this energy type. Draconic's arcana makes it whenever you cast a spell with an energy descriptor that matches your draconic bloodline's energy type, that spell deals +1 point of damage per die rolled. With both of those arcanas u can alter all of the elemental damage spells on the cleric list, like Stormbolts, into fire and adds a single point of damage per die rolled.
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half elven oracle of flame is the best solution.
you get a lot of fireballs, revelations to enchance your fire balls.
i like half elf best in this case because it sounds like the player wants a good weapon. take half elf- take the trait ancestral arms, then take heavy armor with your first level feat. plus you get immunity to sleep, a bonus to save on enchanments, a bonus to preception and low light vision.
its better than human because he has to use another feat anyway to pick up a good weapon. so overall the half elf ends up on the winning side.
I second this emotion.
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Okay, my buddy has decided on Aasimar Flame Oracle.
He will be coming 14th level, and may see 15, or 16th, but nothing after that.
He has a 25 point buy.
He still has not quite figured out the stat array, or feat selection.
We talked to the DM, and stated that Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage will stack, so that sums up the traits.
Any good suggestions?