Ninja sneak atttack


Rules Questions


Hello, I would help with a question about a sixth level ninja using a invisibility ring and combining that with sneak attack, rapid shot, and precise shot (ninja trick), he's using a spear of returning and normal spears, and using ki point to add additional attack, i would like to know how many attacks he would have, if the sneak attack damage is added to all attacks or just the first attack, and if he would be able to go invisible at the end of the round?

his stats are; STR 18
DEX 16
CON 14
WIS 12
CHA 13

My interpratation is that upon the first attack with first spear he becomes visible in essence loosing flatfoot against opponents so he can only get sneak attack damage on first attack am i correct?


yes you are.

Grand Lodge

Right.

You break invisibility, and only get Sneak Attack on the first attack.


Thank you for the reassurance on that question.

Second question how many attack's would he get per round using Rapid shot combined with point blank shot (ninja trick) i believe 3 attacks from my understanding: he gets one attack normal, rapid shot adds +1 then spending KI point he adds another which equals 3, hes says four.


Thank you for the reassurance on that question.

Second question how many attack's would he get per round using Rapid shot combined with point blank shot (ninja trick) I believe 3 attacks from my understanding: he gets one attack normal, rapid shot adds +1 then spending KI point he adds another which equals 3, he also hes says four, he also has quikdraw.


If he is not TWF then he gets one attack for BAB, rapid adds another, and 1 ki point adds 1, 3 is correct.

If its PBS that is confusing him....Point Blank shot adds a +1 to attack and damage within 30 ft, not another attack


Thank you that fixes that question.

Now about going invisible at end of the round, is he able to use the ring of invisibility at the end of the round after attacking? My understanding activating the ring is a standard action, hes wanting to use that instead of spending KI point to use his vanishing feat.


If he attacks, that is using up his standard action, cannot use the ring afterwards

If he full attacks hes in the same boat, cannot use the ring

Ki is a resource that you do not get much of, the ability to go invisible as a swift action is quite powerful


Not to mention that spending Ki to Vanish takes a swift... so does activating Ki to get that extra attack. So... it's vanish or get the 3rd attack with Ki, or standard to use the ring.

Not any way to get extra attack, and vanish, with ring or with Ninja trick in the same round.


He's basically trying to do something a ninja can't do without the Invisible Blade master trick. He'll have to wait until level 10.


So am I understanding then, he can not use vanish and ki point for extra damage in same round?


it's not extra damage, it's an extra attack.... but yes. They both use swift actions, just like any other use of Ki. Some of them use immediate actions, which can be done on the enemies turn, and then you lose your swift on your -next- turn as well.

Ki is a great option base, but you normally pick one option per round if it costs Ki.


sorry meant extra attack,
He has quik draw also, hes still trying to convince me that with quik draw, that all three of his attacks are capable of receiving the sneak attack damage because supposedly they are at the same time.

Grand Lodge

No, that's not how it works.

Liberty's Edge

T'Hulk wrote:


My interpratation is that upon the first attack with first spear he becomes visible in essence loosing flatfoot against opponents so he can only get sneak attack damage on first attack am i correct?

A little nit pick, but being invisible does not make your opponent flat-footed. Being invisible denies your opponent their dex to ac. I only point this out as there are rogue/ninja tricks that only apply to flat-footed opponents and your player appears to be starting a sketchy rules trend.


T'Hulk wrote:

sorry meant extra attack,

He has quik draw also, hes still trying to convince me that with quik draw, that all three of his attacks are capable of receiving the sneak attack damage because supposedly they are at the same time.

Yea, it seems like you have one of those players who tends to take the most optimistic possible interpretation of the rules. Unfortunately, you'll probably have to continually correct and disappoint him.


T'Hulk, this may be useful for you.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Your first attack breaks the invisibility. It doesn't matter if you're using TWF, natural attacks, or iterative attacks: when that first attack happens, invisibility ends, and all your other attacks are made without the benefit of invisibility.

Notice the golem next to Sean's name :)


Also, if he is attacking at range, he is going to have trouble getting off all the attacks. How is he carrying all the spears? How would he draw 2 additional weapons to throw? The returning spear returns at the beginning of his next turn.


OK, So I'm going to be stupid here, From what I'm understanding is that when the ninja is invisible and walks into a room one ogre is cooking with his back turned to the ninja, the ninja has surprise does the ninja get full attack or standard attack and if hes at full attack does he get sneak attack damage on all attacks, and these are ranged attacks.

Shadow Lodge

ok so here is how this works for surprise round.

*ninja attacks with his thrown weapon deals sneak attack damage.
*then rolls init
*then IF he wins init he then can make all of his attacks for that round against the Ogre's flat footed ac WITH sneak attack.

but!

if you lose init then all your attacks are normal attacks without sneak attack damage, unless you move into a flanking position OR go invisible (which gives you one sneak attack)


T'Hulk wrote:
OK, So I'm going to be stupid here, From what I'm understanding is that when the ninja is invisible and walks into a room one ogre is cooking with his back turned to the ninja, the ninja has surprise does the ninja get full attack or standard attack and if hes at full attack does he get sneak attack damage on all attacks, and these are ranged attacks.

Surprise round is 1 action(move or standard).


Treesmasha Toothpickmaker wrote:
Also, if he is attacking at range, he is going to have trouble getting off all the attacks. How is he carrying all the spears? How would he draw 2 additional weapons to throw? The returning spear returns at the beginning of his next turn.

I didn't think of that about drawing other two spears, so I would assume by your response quick deaw wouldn't help him????


Quick draw does what he is claiming it does. It changes drawing a weapon into a free action and specifically states that you can full attack with it. Here is a link to help you out with it.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/quick-draw-combat---final

Note that he must be level 3 before taking this feat though as a ninja does not have the required +1 base attack bonus at level 1.


Can he do a swift action ki point use of vanishing trick to begin the round, then do the rapid shot feat in the same round???

Silver Crusade

Satchmo wrote:

Quick draw does what he is claiming it does. It changes drawing a weapon into a free action and specifically states that you can full attack with it. Here is a link to help you out with it.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/quick-draw-combat---final

Note that he must be level 3 before taking this feat though as a ninja does not have the required +1 base attack bonus at level 1.

Not to pick nits, but he could take it at level 2 with Combat Trick.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
T'Hulk wrote:
Can he do a swift action ki point use of vanishing trick to begin the round, then do the rapid shot feat in the same round???

Using rapid shot is not an action, it's just part of a full-attack, so weather he uses a swift before attacking or not doesn't effect his ability to use rapid-shot.


All things have been answered thank you all for this information, things have been corrected, but at his total dislike for the fact that i and another player in the group have found the facts into what his character is capable of doing at this time. Hes very angry

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