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This isn't 3.5 where the distinction between "class skill" and "cross-class skill" actually mattered - it's only +3 to disable device.
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The hair of White-Haired Witches is worse than the Prehensile Hair of any normal Witch, since it still uses Strength to hit instead of Int.
Fighters get a bonus on saves against fear from Bravery... except it's such a small bonus that their saves against fear are still worse than any class with a good Will save progression and/or a general bonus to Will saves (like Barbarians) and/or a class feature that uses Wisdom.
Meanwhile, Monks aren't proficient with Monk weapons and Rogues don't know how to use sword canes, but Fighters can use them.
There are a lot of weird cases where classes that are meant to be good at something from a class feature aren't because their specific bonus is dwarfed by a general bonus they're missing, and errata isn't terribly forthcoming for any of them. Go ahead and make whatever house-rules seem sensible.
There are a lot of weird cases where classes that are meant to be good at something from a class feature aren't because their specific bonus is dwarfed by a general bonus they're missing, and errata isn't terribly forthcoming for any of them. Go ahead and make whatever house-rules seem sensible.
I'll second this. While you're at it, house rule the Archivist's Lore Master to work exactly like the normal bard's.
I disagree with OP. The flavor of the archetype is that they are book-smart, and the flavor of the Magic Lore feature is that they know more about magic in general.
A rogue can disarm magical traps because he's messing with traps all the time; traps are (one of) his thing(s). The Archivist Bard can disarm magical traps because he's studied magic and knows how it works; this knowledge doesn't give him any sort of advantage when trying to disarm a mundane trap.
If you really want to be good at traps, but still want to be this archetype, use masterwork tools, take Skill Focus, and/or take a trait that gives you a bonus/makes it a class skill.
If you really want to be good at traps, but still want to be this archetype, use masterwork tools, take Skill Focus, and/or take a trait that gives you a bonus/makes it a class skill.
Suppse my second-level Archivist Bard does what you suggest. She puts an 18 in Dex (even though Archivists want good scores in both Int and Cha so there's a bit of MADness at work), puts max ranks in Disable Device, buys masterwork tools, spends one of her only two traits to get a +1 bonus to Disable Device and get it as a class skill, and spends her only feat on Skill Focus... and has a +15 to Disable Device attempts.
A simple level-appropriate magical trap like the CR2 Burning Hands Trap has a DC of 26. (That's not a cherrypicked high-DC trap, either; that's about as low as magical trap DC's go, since the general formula is 25 + spell level.) Despite the heavy investment, taking 10 isn't an option. Better hope you don't roll badly - the trap has a 30% chance of going off in your face.
On the other hand, if the trap does go off in your face, you only fail your Reflex save on a natural 1. So instead of investing several resources into Disable Device and still not being very good at it, maybe it would be more efficient just to walk around, let the traps go off, and spend your resources elsewhere.
This isn't a problem unique to the Archivist (despite the rogue's Trapfinding actually granting a bonus to Disable Device, the rogue has the same problem until high levels), and granting Disable Device as a class skill won't solve this problem, but I think it's worth pointing out that this isn't about wanting to be good without heavy investment, it's about wanting to be still not actually very good without heavy investment.
While you're at it, house rule the Archivist's Lore Master to work exactly like the normal bard's.I think this one was actually officially clarified. They indeed get the full normal Lore Master ability early.
Well, we officially know the author's intent :)
The archivist's main focus isn't really on traps. That's more of a tertiary thing they get
Also, based off of the example traps used in Adventure Paths, the average Disable Device DC for disabling a CR 2 trap is 20. 3 of the 13 traps are magical ones, so DC 25 is not a reasonable benchmark. If they grab the trait to focus some more on this aspect of their class, with a masterwork set of tools, they'll be able to disable the average trap just fine. Even being able to take 10 on it. They will, obviously, have a harder time with the harder traps.
If, as you say, any sane GM will say Disable Device is a class skill, then houserule it and move on. No big deal. If you're playing PFS so you can't houserule it, then you get two traits; spend one of them to pick it up as a class skill. Again, no big deal.
Also, based off of the example traps used in Adventure Paths, the average Disable Device DC for disabling a CR 2 trap is 20. 3 of the 13 traps are magical ones, so DC 25 is not a reasonable benchmark.
That's great except the Archivist's ability has nothing to do with nonmagical traps and applies only to magical traps. So if you ever want to actually use that class feature, DC25 is precisely a reasonable benchmark.
The fact that writers just plain don't include traps on which to use the ability is just one more problem that makes it that much more worthless.
If you really want to be good at traps, but still want to be this archetype, use masterwork tools, take Skill Focus, and/or take a trait that gives you a bonus/makes it a class skill.Suppse my second-level Archivist Bard does what you suggest. She puts an 18 in Dex (even though Archivists want good scores in both Int and Cha so there's a bit of MADness at work), puts max ranks in Disable Device, buys masterwork tools, spends one of her only two traits to get a +1 bonus to Disable Device and get it as a class skill, and spends her only feat on Skill Focus... and has a +15 to Disable Device attempts.
A simple level-appropriate magical trap like the CR2 Burning Hands Trap has a DC of 26. (That's not a cherrypicked high-DC trap, either; that's about as low as magical trap DC's go, since the general formula is 25 + spell level.) Despite the heavy investment, taking 10 isn't an option. Better hope you don't roll badly - the trap has a 30% chance of going off in your face.
On the other hand, if the trap does go off in your face, you only fail your Reflex save on a natural 1. So instead of investing several resources into Disable Device and still not being very good at it, maybe it would be more efficient just to walk around, let the traps go off, and spend your resources elsewhere.
This isn't a problem unique to the Archivist (despite the rogue's Trapfinding actually granting a bonus to Disable Device, the rogue has the same problem until high levels), and granting Disable Device as a class skill won't solve this problem, but I think it's worth pointing out that this isn't about wanting to be good without heavy investment, it's about wanting to be still not actually very good without heavy investment.
so basically the 2nd level archivist can't disable a magical trap risk free, I fail to see that as a bad thing exactly.. at 4th level it might very well take 10 to disable 2nd lvl traps and lvl 4 if he has cast heroism.. at 7th level he adds cat's grace and he can disable 9th lvl traps by taking 10, not that bad really.
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Suppse my second-level Archivist Bard does what you suggest. She puts an 18 in Dex (even though Archivists want good scores in both Int and Cha so there's a bit of MADness at work), puts max ranks in Disable Device, buys masterwork tools, spends one of her only two traits to get a +1 bonus to Disable Device and get it as a class skill, and spends her only feat on Skill Focus... and has a +15 to Disable Device attempts.
The trait make disable device a lass skill. So it is a +4 for a total of +18.
I think if you check your math, you'll find that it really does come to a +15 (even with the class skill bonus).
so basically the 2nd level archivist can't disable a magical trap risk free, I fail to see that as a bad thing exactly.. at 4th level it might very well take 10 to disable 2nd lvl traps and lvl 4 if he has cast heroism.. at 7th...
More like a 2nd level archivist can pour every resource into improving Disable Device and still have about the same chance of disarming a trap as setting it off in her face - and any 2nd level archivist who doesn't invest exclusively in her "disarm magical traps" feature like that - which, as Cheapy notes, would barely come up even if it weren't such a difficult roll - basically can't use her class feature at all.
It's especially bad considering that "summon a monster and have it set off the trap", or "have someone with good saves walk into the trap and shrug it off", are already effective ways of setting off most traps harmlessly. Requiring so much investment just to make Disable Device merely not-good instead of awful just encourages having the wizard solve what should be the rogue's problems even further.
Since Barbarians can get a +10 to hit at second level with similar investment - +2 BAB, 18 strength base plus 4 more while raging, Weapon Focus, masterwork weapon - this would be roughly equivalent to making 21 AC standard for CR2 enemies. There's a reason that the standard AC for CR2 enemies is more like 14.
The trait make disable device a lass skill. So it is a +4 for a total of +18.
Already included. +4 dex mod, +2 skill ranks, +3 class skill, +1 trait bonus, +3 skill focus, +2 masterwork tool. +15 total.