
Havoc404 |
Is there a ruling on "powerful build"? I have the advanced race builders guide (which is brilliant) and it is not in there. I'm about a third of the way into creating a campaign setting (it would be far there but I'm redoing it for pathfinder) and was wanting to use the ability on a creature I had created. I know it was from 3.5 and therefore probably a bit overpowered. I have seen it in an open sourced book "psionics unleashed" for the half giant but didn't know how it was balanced with the core pathfinder books. Please if I could get a ruling I would be super grateful
Thank you
Brandon.

mdt |

Sorry to say it, but you probably won't get anything from the developers.
It's part of the SRD, so it's in the OGL content, which is why it's in Psionics Unleashed from Dreamscarred Press.
I doubt you'll see it anytime soon, as Paizo hasn't shown any interest in creating psionics rules.
As far as balance, I've never found it unbalanced. It's a bit powerful at 1st level (Maybe 2nd), but that's about it. After that it's more about your static adds than the dice size of attacks.

Havoc404 |
Sorry to say it, but you probably won't get anything from the developers.
It's part of the SRD, so it's in the OGL content, which is why it's in Psionics Unleashed from Dreamscarred Press.
I doubt you'll see it anytime soon, as Paizo hasn't shown any interest in creating psionics rules.
As far as balance, I've never found it unbalanced. It's a bit powerful at 1st level (Maybe 2nd), but that's about it. After that it's more about your static adds than the dice size of attacks.
Yeah I noticed that too ... Thought when the half giant with the great sword and all the vital strike feats starts wading through combat everyone tends to get a bit up in arms...
And sorry I'm horrible with abbreviations what does "OGL" stand for?
Thought a creature though shouldn't be a big deal then ....
Thanks

mdt |

OGL = Open Gaming License
It's what let's Paizo and Dream Scarred Press both use the 3.5 rules and republish them when WoTC (and especially Hasbro) at this point would surely prefer they couldn't. :)
Anyway, I agree at lower levels, those half-giant greatsword wielders are scary at level 10 when they have a bunch of feats pumping their static damage, but then again, what's the diff between this :
Human Fighter (Greatsword) : 2d6+15 19-20x2
Half-Giant Fighter (Greatsword) : 3d6+15 19-20x2
Average difference per hit is 3.5 pts. That's a bit of a difference at level 20 (17.5 pts assuming all hits connect) but that's not a lot of difference at level 20 either. The human fighter has an extra feat and 20 extra skill points over the half-giant, so probably can pump his to-hit or damage some other way.
All the ability really gives you is 1 to 3.5 pts per attack extra damage on a hit.

mdt |

OGL = Open Game License.
I'd place Powerful Build around the value of 3 Race Points, for what its worth.
I disagree,
I think 2 personally.Being Large gets' you reach, and bonus's to hit, bonus's to CMB, bonuses to damage and bonuses against certain combat maneuvers (can't be swallowed whole, etc).
Powerful Build on the other hand only get's you bonus to damage and bonus against certain combat manuevers.
For 3 pts, you could have 3 five point energy resistances.

mdt |

I was being conservative MDT, my gut instinct was 2 but on these boards I frequently get my ideas decried as overpowered.
2 points is certainly fair IMO.
LOL,
I've found it's often better to go with your gut. NO matter what you choose, conservative, liberal, or gut, someone's going to disagree. :)
Craig Frankum |

Seeing as:
Large (7 RP): Prerequisite: Humanoids taking this
quality must have the giant subtype; Benefit: Large
creatures gain a +2 size bonus to Strength and a –2 size
penalty to Dexterity. Large races take a –1 size penalty
to their AC, a –1 size penalty on attack rolls, a +1 bonus
on combat maneuver checks and to their CMD, and a –4
size penalty on Stealth checks. A Large creature takes up
a space that is 10 feet by 10 feet and has a reach of 5 feet.
And the Goliath in Races of Stone had powerful build which stated basically that he counted as a large creature when it benefitted it. Goliaths recieved +2 Strength (built into the characters stats already), +1 CMB and CMD, large sized weapons, but none of the negatives bonus and reach. I believe Kyrt-Ryder's original assessment of 3 was fairly accurate.

Craig Frankum |

Thank you sir, I had forgotten that. But as well if that is the build you are going for:
Specialized (1 RP): Pick either mental or physical ability scores. Members of this race gain a +2 bonus to two ability scores of the chosen type, and a –2 penalty to one ability score of the other type.
(i.e. +2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con)
In this case physical and:
Advanced Strength (4 RP): Prerequisites: None; Benefit: Members of this race receive a +2 racial bonus to Strength. Special: This bonus can be taken multiple times, but each additional time it is taken, its cost increases by 1 RP. Its effects stack.
To get the appropriate ability scores. So with that, you're at the Goliath's +4 Str, -2 Dex, and +2 Con costing a whopping 5 RP. I was suggesting all the benefits afore mentioned in my prior post (+2 Strength, +1 CMB and CMD, and able to use large sized weapons) for 3 RP. A total of 4 RP get's you the benefits of Powerful Build and Specialized. 1 RP less than the above mentioned set with more buffs to the character. Even if it is +1 CMB and CMD as opposed to +4.

![]() |

Check out Blood of Fiends, the thiefling book.
Inside the variant abilities is a trait that gives you ability to use weapons one size larger than you are without penalties. Seeing as it swaps out Darkness racial if I recall correctly, it'd be put at like 2-4RP with some common sense tuning.
Yes it is very nice, I am going to be using twin large sawtooth sabres! Muahah

mdt |

large doesn't grant reach, it's just the requirement for getting reach.
I'm sorry, but the ARG would like to disagree with you. :)
Large (7 RP): Prerequisite: Humanoids taking this quality must have the giant subtype; Benefit: Large creatures gain a +2 size bonus to Strength and a –2 size penalty to Dexterity. Large races take a –1 size penalty to their AC, a –1 size penalty on attack rolls, a +1 bonus on combat maneuver checks and to their CMD, and a –4 size penalty on Stealth checks. A Large creature takes up a space that is 10 feet by 10 feet and has a reach of 5 feet.

Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal |

Actually, the real powerhouse for Powerful Build isn't when it allows Medium size creatures to use Large size weapons w/out penalty, it's when it allows Small size creatures the use of Medium size weapons without penalty, especially if they don't have a racial penalty to Str.

Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus |

Actually, the real powerhouse for Powerful Build isn't when it allows Medium size creatures to use Large size weapons w/out penalty, it's when it allows Small size creatures the use of Medium size weapons without penalty, especially if they don't have a racial penalty to Str.
The redcap would agree with you.

matthew dickinson 0 |

I realize this thread is rather stale at this point but I would like to make an argument for this being a two point power. Please see the last line of the description:
"The benefts of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category."
This specifically eliminates it's use with any enhancement which would most synergize with this ability. By level 10 this ability would be largely obsolete for any medium or larger creature. While an argument can be made that for small and tiny creatures it is still worthy, that's a really niche argument for a use that doesn't synergize spectacularly well compared to other racial ablities.
Edit:
I just realized I misread that quote and added a "not". I then take all that back and would go with a 3 point cost. Very sorry.