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Could someone answer this question? My GM is saying that Litany of Righteousness only works on effects that have an attack roll. This means a fireball would not count. Also, when a paladin casts Litany of Righteousness, it last 1 round, does this mean all classes that have the good aura get this advantage for the round?
Yes everyone with an aura of good gets the benefit, and your DM seems to be right, a fireball doesn't count.
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School evocation [good, language dependent]; Level inquisitor 3, paladin 2
Casting Time 1 swift action
Components V, S, DF
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature
Duration 1 round
Saving Throw no; Spell Resistance yes
Calling down a litany of anathema, you make an evil more susceptible to the attacks of good creatures. If the target is evil, it takes double damage from attacks made by creatures with a good aura (from a class feature or as a creature with the good subtype). If the target also has the evil subtype; when it is hit with attacks made by creatures with a good aura, it is also dazzled for 1d4 rounds. If this spell targets a nonevil creature (or one that lacks the evil subtype), it has no effect, and the spell is wasted.
While subject to this spell, the target cannot be the target of another spell that has the word "litany" in the title.
[Emphasis mine]PRD Link for those who may want. . .
Yes, fireball is an attack. Yes Litany applies to attacks. Litany applies to fireball.
[Rant]
So I went cruising the Glossary, and oddly Attack is not listed. Go figure. So I looked up Energy Resistance!
A creature with resistance to energy has the ability (usually extraordinary) to ignore some damage of a certain type per attack, but it does not have total immunity.
Each resistance ability is defined by what energy type it resists and how many points of damage are resisted. It doesn't matter whether the damage has a mundane or magical source.
When resistance completely negates the damage from an energy attack, the attack does not disrupt a spell. This resistance does not stack with the resistance that a spell might provide.
Logical conclusion:
1) Fireball is not an attack, and thus neither Energy Resistance nor Litany of Righteousness apply, or
2) Fireball is an attack, and thus both Energy Resistance and Litany of Righteousness apply.
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Also! Fun fact... Invisibility "If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area." Thus if Fireball is not an attack, it does not dismiss invisibility!
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There are several other examples, but I think the point should be clear by now...
[/Rant]
"Attack" generally can be defined as one of two ways:
1. Will doing this end the invisibility spell (or sanctuary, or similar effects)? I prefer to label these as "acts of aggression" to lessen any rules confusion, but the game calls them attacks.
2. Anything that rolls a d20 to hit, and is subject to critical success and failure. Includes manufactured and improvised weapons, unarmed strike, natural weapons, weapon-like spells, splash weapons... I prefer to call these "weapon attacks" to lessen rules confusion, but unfortunately paizo has gone out of their way to muddy the issue by calling certain of these attacks, namely the splash weapon (which has weapon in its freakin' name!) NOT weapons. Mostly because they still hold an irrational grudge and hatred of the 3E "flask rogue" and will not let anything stop them from not allowing such foul abominations (sarcasm) from ever being possible in PF*, including wanting to have concise, clear, and logical rules.
Which of the two Litany refers to, I have no idea. Should probably FAQ it.
* Then they came out with guns, which you CAN full attack sneak attack against flatfooted touch AC with but left the splash weapon rule the same still; guns are special little snow flakes, don'tchya know?
99% of your statement I agree with, however; the one thing Paizo has gone out of its way to do is differentiate between Attack (1. in your example) and Attack Roll (2. in your example). As such, since they specified attack (and not attack roll) per RAW, it is in the category of 1.
Bring back the flask rogues! They should at the very least be an archetype of Alchemist!
Also, what happened to the good ole fashioned Artificer?
But can you cast 2 spells in the same round irregardless of the action required to do so?
But can you cast 2 spells in the same round irregardless of the action required to do so?
Yes, as long you have available the actions required to do so.
Yes, as long you have available the actions required to do so.
Is that an official ruling? If so, could you provide reference to prove?
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Core Rulebook p. 213
"A spell with a casting time of 1 swift action doesn’t count against your normal limit of one spell per round. However, you may cast such a spell only once per round. Casting a spell with a casting time of 1 swift action doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity."
Answered my own question.
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Also, PF unlike 3E does not have a "volley rule" so spells that simultaneously launch multiple rays or other projectiles can all deal sneak attack damage. There's probably a spell that gets more than 3 shots, but Scorching Ray + Quickened Scorching Ray alone is 6 sneak attacks per round.
So not allowing flask rogues seems really silly. Not to mention, again, guns, which hit touch AC within sneak attack range and whose ammo costs on par or less than what flasks do (especially if you craft the ammo yourself, at a "special snowflake" rate of 1/5 cost instead of the normal 1/3).
In any case, to the original question, since #1 is a VERY broad definition of "attack," only used in very specific cases, and each time of such occurance it is specifically called out as being such.... I think the intent is for Litany of Righteousness to only be used by "attacks" as defined by #2. And possibly also splash weapons, but who knows?
Flagged for FAQ. The spell certainly seems to imply spell attacks would be effected as well, but I can understand you're GM thinking that might be too powerful to allow. I personally would rule that spells such as fireball count, I mean, if some wizard threw a fireball at me I would consider it an attack on me, regardless of the mechanics of what happened. :P
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This came up because we have a paladin in the group and I am a Theologian Priest with Fire Domain.
I am a level 1 cross blooded sorceror(dragon(fire)/orc). This gives me basically 2 points of damage for every damage dice as long as it's fire based.
I'm currently 6 levels of Theologian Priest with basically every feat/trait to increase my caster level with fireball.
I currently am throwing 11D6 +22 fireballs with a 22DC.
With my Paladin in the party, he casts Litany of Righteousness and now my fireball is 22D6 +44. Basically broken mechanic, which I'm fine with the GM not allowing it in the game.
I just want to know if it is legit, regardless if it's broken.
I currently am throwing 11D6 +22 fireballs with a 22DC.
With my Paladin in the party, he casts Litany of Righteousness and now my fireball is 22D6 +44. Basically broken mechanic, which I'm fine with the GM not allowing it in the game.
I just want to know if it is legit, regardless if it's broken.
It's certainly not the most broken use of this at all.
First, the double damage only applies to the target of the Litany. So, you're only dealing double damage to one guy.
Second, I'm not really understanding how you can boost your caster level by 5 levels and drop the cost of meta-magic such that you can Intensify the Fireball with a 3rd level slot.
Third, 11d6+22 averages 60.5 damage, which doubles to 121, with a save for 1/2. That's not really very much, to be honest.
My level 7 Paladin smiting deals 1d8+18 per arrow (+25 when smiting undead, outsiders, or dragons), and with Rapid Shot and Manyshot, I'm unleashing 4 arrows per turn.
That's 90 average damage between them (118 vs. undead, outsiders, or dragons), which doubles to 180 (or 236) and completely ignores DR. It's also really easy to hit when I'm adding my Charisma to hit for the attacks, too. It gets sillier with haste.
A similar Paladin with a two-handed weapon would attack twice for 2d6+30ish when smiting, which would average 74 combined, doubled to 148.
In other words, you're not overpowered because the Paladin should be able to outdo your spell himself with Litany of Righteousness. The real issue is Litany of Righteousness itself--it's way too big a boost even if there's nobody else in your party that could take advantage.
Second, I'm not really understanding how you can boost your caster level by 5 levels and drop the cost of meta-magic such that you can Intensify the Fireball with a 3rd level slot.
He's a Theologian, the intensify is free as per the archetype feature.
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School evocation [fire]; Level sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a ball of bat guano and sulfur)
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yes
A fireball spell generates a searing explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.
You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. An early impact results in an early detonation. If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.
The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
CRB P. 208
Attacks: Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All
offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage
opponents, are considered attacks. Attempts to channel
energy count as attacks if it would harm any creatures
in the area. All spells that opponents resist with saving
throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or
hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters
or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves
don’t harm anyone.
Linkification Please scroll down to Special Spell Effects . . .
Huzzah, Fireball is (RAW) an attack. Litany (RAW) affects attacks. Therefore Litany affects Fireball (and many, many, many other spells and abilities.)
or for a breakdown:
Some spell descriptions refer to attacking.
(Litany of Righteousness reads: "If the target is evil, it takes double damage from attacks made by creatures with a good aura", we have Litany affecting Attacks, so we are good so far, we are in the right place, but what does it effect? Is fireball an attack? Let's read on!)
All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents, are considered attacks.
(Well, Fireball seems to fit. It is offensive, and deals damage, so we can even ignore the' even those' section. . . Let's be certain though.)
Attempts to channel energy count as attacks if it would harm any creatures in the area.
(D'oh, I can't channel Fireball! This isn't MtG*! No real help in this sentence.)
All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks.
(Fireball does have a save (reflex for half)! Fireball does deal damage! (1d6/Caster Level). Fireball does otherwise harm or hamper, it sets things on FIRE "The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area." Huzzah! We have found it!! Litany affects Attacks and Fireball is an Attack! Who knew? Just in case, lets read over the last sentence in case of exceptions...)
Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone.
(Oh, how I love this sentence. Summoning does not break my Invisibility! Yay! Summoning isn't an attack by definition! Life is good for conjurers.)
You guys realize it only is useful to a character that has a good aura, IE, good outsiders and paladins. I have never been sure why Inquisitors get a spell they get no benefit from.
You guys realize it only is useful to a character that has a good aura, IE, good outsiders and paladins.
And Clerics.
I have never been sure why Inquisitors get a spell they get no benefit from.
It's a buff for the party--a very powerful one if you have several clerics/paladins in the party. Just because it doesn't specifically buff the Inquisitor does not make it useless.
You guys realize it only is useful to a character that has a good aura, IE, good outsiders and paladins.And Clerics.
I have never been sure why Inquisitors get a spell they get no benefit from.It's a buff for the party--a very powerful one if you have several clerics/paladins in the party. Just because it doesn't specifically buff the Inquisitor does not make it useless.
It is kinda like Inspire on from the spell focused bard, or Haste on wizards/sorcerers. When do you ever see a wizard/sorcerer entering combat, or the spell focused bard wading into melee? It is a buff, and a damn good one, if you have a paladin or good cleric to cast it on. (My personal favorite target would be the various good outsiders summoned by your friendly wizard!)
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Arizhel,
You rock Sir!! That is exactly what I was looking for. In the end, it didn't change anything, because to be honest it is a bit to powerful for the campaign and our DM basically said, if you want that than I will adjust the rest of the encounters to make up for the additional damage. But knowing that it is legal makes me feel better about it.
Also, I understand it's not nearly the most broken thing, but as a Theologian, I'm casting 4 fireballs a day at my level and the Paladin I'm rolling with can cast 2 Litany's of Righteousness atm, so that is basically two times a day we can 1 round a boss between the two of us, barring the creature isn't fire immune or has high SR.
Also, I plan on taking Meta magic admixture at 9th level, so most of my 4th level spells would be Fireballs(acid,electricity,etc). At that point, only a evasion class boss or high SR would stop this combo from decimating the creature.
I'm really loving the flexibility of the Theologian, I am still a full blown healer, but now I can nuke as well! Free intensified Fireballs at 5th level and then free intensified burning hands for the 10th level freebie(none of the other domain spells from fire look appealling).
I also started with an 11INT so I could get spell focus and then spell specialization fireball(extra 2 caster levels!!) at 11th level I will get Greater Spell Specialization which is awesome because then I don't even have to mem a fireball. I can spontaneously cast fireballs and since I'm still a cleric can spontaneously cast heals, so basically I will mem all utility stuff and spontaneously cast DPS or Heals as needed.
Btw, as far as Litany of Righteousness, Do Aasimars count as far as having a good aura.
Litany of Righteousness is a spell?
I thought it was a supernatural ability used by certain members of the forums. ;)
Do Aasimars count as far as having a good aura.
No, if something has an aura, it will say as much.
You guys realize it only is useful to a character that has a good aura, IE, good outsiders and paladins. I have never been sure why Inquisitors get a spell they get no benefit from.
Creatures with 5 or more HD have an aura of their alignment as per the Dectect XYZ spells
You guys realize it only is useful to a character that has a good aura, IE, good outsiders and paladins. I have never been sure why Inquisitors get a spell they get no benefit from.Creatures with 5 or more HD have an aura of their alignment as per the Dectect XYZ spells
1) This thread is over a year old
2) Detecting them as good based on the detect line of spells does not mean they have an Aura of Good. Only classes that mention giving an aura or Outsiders with good subtype count. For PCs this means pretty much Paladins, and clerics of Good gods only.Even good aligned clerics of neutral gods don't have an aura of good because it is based on your deity's alignment. Not yours.