Hmm. If no zen archer, perhaps sohei, if you like that kind of thing, extra arrows and all.
If not, I've done the fighter archer archetype, but a pure archer is better. The issue overall with a fighter archer is that they are just pure damage 90% of the time. They have good HP, and high damage constantly, practically never fluctuating unless you use certain feats for that attack round or other conditions. Unlike a zen archer, or inquisitor, or ranger, or,barbarian, they don't get a pump ability from a class ability. They get their weapon training, and it's pretty constant,. Throw in gloves of dueling and it's even higher. They have low skills, which will go to acrobatics, and perception mostly. They have. A hard time out of combat due to their poor saves except fort.
However, depending on what you want, fighter might be a good option. If not, rangers are a pretty great class for archers if you like a little of this and that for their abilities. Since no zen archer, I doubt sohei. In my opinion ranger archer would be better than fighter. Arcane archer are nice but they take a while to get complete and you said 5 th level. Inquisitor are 3/4 bab, so not the best for a pure archer.
Let us know what your looking for.
Grizzly, I am confused, what do you mean by a pure archer>
How about a Synthesist Summoner Archer? You can get an incredible to hit modifier, and you can make a Medusa type character.... with 4 arms, and go two weapon fighting? Composite Long bow with a high strength modifier.
My personal favorite is an Archer bard. You might not personally out DPR a fighter but you get a nice selection of spells, buffs for the party (particularly Inspire Courage), and a plethora of skills. Not only will you be awesome but you will make your party awesome too.
Arcane Strike, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot as early feats.
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Archer
Hobgoblin Fighter (Archer) 5
N Medium Humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +12
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Defense
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AC 19, touch 16, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +6 Dex)
hp 48 (5d10+10)
Fort +7, Ref +8, Will +7
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Ranged +1 Adaptive Composite longbow (Str +0) +9/+9 (1d8+8/x3)
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 22, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +5; CMB +11; CMD 23
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Deadly Aim -2/+4, Iron Will, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
Traits Eyes and Ears of the City, Indomitable Faith
Skills Climb +8, Perception +12, Stealth +18, Swim +7
Languages Common, Goblin
SQ trick shots (trick shot: sunder)
Other Gear +1 Leather armor, +1 Adaptive Composite longbow (Str +0), Belt of incredible dexterity +2, Cloak of resistance +1, 940 GP
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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. . -none-
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Special Abilities
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Agile Maneuvers Use DEX instead of STR for CMB
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Deadly Aim -2/+4 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Point Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Trick Shot: Sunder Sunder with a bow at 30' and -4 CMB.
For elamdri fighter archer archetype, I would choose disarm over sunder. In more cases disarm, at low level will work better, even with your AoO's better then sunder. Ou also do not need agile maneuvers for your CMB. Since a CMB for this archer uses your bow as for the attack, you rattackmis modified by your attack roll. As such, your automatically using your dex for your CMB when doing trickshot abilities. This frees up a feat for you. I would probably get combat reflexes at 5th level.
As for what I meant by full archer, since the inquisitor is a 3/4 bab and many of their abilities aren't directly suited for archery type fighting, they use spells more likely. A full archer wold use spells typically to supplement their archery capabilities. For a full archer, like zen fighter, sohei, archery is the first and typically only thing they are gonna use their turns on. Casting a few spells, during combat, other than a buff or rebuff is generally gonna be viewed as a more powerful route for the character. Spell options in many cases trump arrow damage.
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All archers should totally dip 1 level into heretic (inquisitor):
"Escape (Su): Each time the inquisitor using this judgment hits an opponent with a melee or ranged attack, she can use a move action attempt to create a diversion to hide (see the Stealth skill)."
No -20 penalty to re-hide after shooting someone in the face!
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Archer
Human Paladin 5
LG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses Perception +3
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Defense
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AC 19, touch 14, flat-footed 15 (+5 armor, +4 Dex)
hp 43 (5d10+5)
Fort +9, Ref +9, Will +8
Immune disease, fear
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Ranged +1 Adaptive Composite longbow (Str +0) +7/+7 (1d8+7/19-20/x3)
Special Attacks smite evil (2/day)
Spell-Like Abilities Detect Evil (At will)
Paladin Spells Prepared (CL 2):
1 (2/day) Divine Favor (x2)
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 19, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 16
Base Atk +5; CMB +7; CMD 21
Feats Deadly Aim -2/+4, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
Traits Dangerously Curious, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +3, Climb +1, Diplomacy +11, Escape Artist +3, Fly +3, Knowledge (religion) +7, Perception +3, Ride +3, Stealth +3, Swim +1, Use Magic Device +12
Languages Common
SQ aura of courage, aura of good, divine bonds (weapon [1/day]), lay on hands (2d6) (5/day), mercies (mercy [sickened]), paladin channel positive energy 3d6 (2/day) (dc 15
Other Gear +1 Chain shirt, +1 Adaptive Composite longbow (Str +0), Bracers of falcon's aim, Cloak of resistance +1, 850 GP
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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Aspect of the Falcon (Constant) - 0/0
Divine Bond (Weapon +1) (5 minutes) (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
Lay on Hands (2d6) (5/day) (Su) - 0/5
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 3d6 (2/day) (DC 15) (Su) - 0/2
Smite Evil (2/day) (Su) - 0/2
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Special Abilities
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Aura of Courage +4 (10' radius) (Su) You are immune to Fear. Allies within aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs Fear.
Aura of Good (Ex) The paladin has an Aura of Good with power equal to her class level.
Deadly Aim -2/+4 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Divine Bond (Weapon +1) (5 minutes) (1/day) (Sp) Weapon shines with light and gains enhancement bonuses or chosen properties.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Lay on Hands (2d6) (5/day) (Su) You can heal 2d6 damage, 5/day
Mercy (Sickened) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the sickened condition.
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 3d6 (2/day) (DC 15) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Point Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Smite Evil (2/day) (Su) +3 to hit, +5 to damage, +3 deflection bonus to AC when used.
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I see you mention the Inquisitor is a 3/4 BAB class, but really it isn't. The only 1st level spell you should memorize is Divine Favor. This spell will put your attack and damage bonus on par with full BAB classes. During the first round of every fight, cast Divine Favor and start a Judgement if needed. Next round start firing away. When you get higher level, Divine Power will replace this spell making you even more powerful and essentially hasted.
Because you start at 5th level, I would recommend the Inquisitor. Level 5 is one of the "plateau" areas where an Inquisitor starts to really come into power. Not to mention the Inquisitor brings so much more to the table than a simple fighter and, though I haven't crunched the numbers, I believe could consistently outdamage a fighter.
If you do go the way of fighter, then I highly recommend the bane baldric item. +5 levels to your inquisitor for your bane and greater bane. I don't believe it'll grant you greater bane at level 7. Either way, it's a great item for inquisitors.
All archers should totally dip 1 level into heretic (inquisitor):
"Escape (Su): Each time the inquisitor using this judgment hits an opponent with a melee or ranged attack, she can use a move action attempt to create a diversion to hide (see the Stealth skill)."
No -20 penalty to re-hide after shooting someone in the face!
No, just an opposed Bluff check, a -10 penalty on the Stealth check, a requirement that you actually hit your target, and a requirement that you spent your daily judgment to do it.
Check out my twin archers:
Dayer Rann - hardcore damage dealer
Deacon Rann - versatile trick archer
Maybe they will serve to inspire you?
^^ which is why pure archers, who don't waste rounds, or who use archery as a secondary purpose, are better suited for more of the archery stresses and strengths that some classes provide, over others. for an archer, using a round to buff, in combat is a huge waste. If you buff pre-combat, and it can last a bit of time, then it's not as bad, but it still is in the end.
Id pick half-elf fighter, taking racial +2 will saves and iron will. In addition to trait and maybe wis-bonuses this makes a decent defense vs domination.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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My personal favorite is an Archer bard. You might not personally out DPR a fighter but you get a nice selection of spells, buffs for the party (particularly Inspire Courage), and a plethora of skills. Not only will you be awesome but you will make your party awesome too.
Arcane Strike, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot as early feats.
Past around lvl 8 you may very well out-DPR the archer fighter when your buffs are all spun up.
Wayfiner with a Clear Spinle grants w immunity to domination and a +2ac/saves vs evil for the low low cost of 4500gp.. Back on subject though ive seen a weapon master archer wreck face in person... Im currently playing a switch hitter ranger in the same grp and even though im not specialized in archery(just have rapid and manyshot from bonus feats), he does as much damage as the fighter vs FE.. Ntm he still swings a +1 nodachi for 1d10+25 vs FE in melee.. Paladin archers are badass vs smite targets, so go oath of vengeance to max that..
+1 to archer bard (arcane duelist archetype)
Ruyan.
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Attk (w/point blank and rapid) +11, +11 (d8+6) (full strength compound bow with no plus)
Feats- Point blank and master, precise shot, wep. foc, wep. spec, rapid shot
specials- fighter abilities, armor and weapon training
any thoughts?
Take a nearly identical build as a Fighter 1 / Rogue 4. Use rogue talents 'weapon training' and 'combat trick' for two of the feats.
Attk (w/point blank and rapid) +10, +10 (d8+6) (full strength compound bow with no plus) + 2d6 w/ sneak attack
-1 to hit means a 5% reduction in hits and thus damage. However, average damage with sneak attack is 17.5 pts * 95% = 16.625 average damage, vs 10.5 with the fighter build. Without sneak attack damage is only 10.5 * 95% = 9.975. The rogue build works out better if you can get sneak attacks 8% of the time or more.
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Archery rangers have huge damage, fast feats, a mount and lots of versatility. Lastoth did a great guide here
How do archers of other classes stack up against the Rann brothers?
I'm currently playing an archer bard (arcane duelist) and he's a good, solid character. I do (generally) spend round 1 buffing the party, but then again that's why I play a bard. Move action to inspire courage and standard action to cast Good Hope (level 7).
One of the more deadly npc's I created was an archer inquisitor (level 7 iirc). It took her several rounds to throw up her buffs before combat, but she was a killing machine as my PCs found out.
Another deadly npc I created was a ranger archer (level 10). I should have dropped the (not raging) level 7 barbarian in one lucky shot but I forgot that bow crits deal triple damage and so only rolled double damage (lucky barbarian).
I don't have a favorite archer build. They all offer neat alternatives.
In my experience fighter archers do more consistant damage every round, but a ranger vs fe, or a pally with smite would both do more.. Zen archer monks do more than any from my xp.. But as stated he cant play a zen archer.. Zen's got alota boost from the guided and adaptive bow enchantments..
How do archers of other classes stack up against the Rann brothers?Zen archer monk does more damage with WAY better saves and better ac
If you can give me the general break down for the optimal zen archer build, then I will put it to sheet along with the Rann brothers.
I've been meaning to make one for some time now anyways.
Guided bow is needed for zen archer, helps cut back on MAD. Also merciful on the bow. Qingong to remove slow fall- barkskin.
I'm still in the process with my zen archer for optimizing data sets.
Archer
Half-Elf Synthesist Summoner 5
LG Medium Humanoid (human,elven)
Init +5; Senses Perception +8
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Defense
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AC 26, touch 14, flat-footed 22 (+4 AC-mage armor, +4 Dex, +8 Natural Armor)
hp 77 (5d8+0) + (5d10+3)
Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +8
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.; Fly 30 ft.
Ranged +1 Adaptive Composite longbow (Str +0) +7/+7 (1d8+4/20/x3)
+7/+7/+7 (2d6+8/20/x3)
using actual large arrows when attacking from higher position, hasted, enlarged and Bull Strengthed
Summoner Spells Prepared (CL 5):
0 (at-will) Detect magic
0 (at-will) Guidance
0 (at-will) Mending
0 (at-will) Message
0 (at-will) Open/Close
0 (at-will) Read Magic
1 standard Grease (DC 14)
1 standard Enlarge x2
1 standard Mage Armor x2
2 standard Bull's Strength
2 standard Haste
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Statistics
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Str 16(10), Dex 18(10), Con 16(11), Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 16 (parenthesis = summoner's normal attributes)
Base Atk +4; CMB +7; CMD 21
Two-weapon Fighting, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
Traits Dangerously Curious, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +9, Diplomacy +11, Fly +9, Perception +10, Use Magic Device +13
Languages Common, Serpent-folk, Celestial
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Evolutions 9.25 points (half-elven favored class bonus)
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Base Snake
Tail, tail slap, bite (reach)
1pt Improved Natural Armor
2pt fly
2pt Improved strength
2pt Improved Constitution
2pt extra limbs
Other Gear +1 Adaptive Composite longbow (Str +0), Cloak of resistance +1, Wand of Create Pit
How do archers of other classes stack up against the Rann brothers?Zen archer monk does more damage with WAY better saves and better acIf you can give me the general break down for the optimal zen archer build, then I will put it to sheet along with the Rann brothers.
I've been meaning to make one for some time now anyways.
One. You know the Zen Archer that can solo Tarrasque lol.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nix8?Zen-and-the-Art-of-Monk-Maintenance-A-Gui de
How do archers of other classes stack up against the Rann brothers?Zen archer monk does more damage with WAY better saves and better acIf you can give me the general break down for the optimal zen archer build, then I will put it to sheet along with the Rann brothers.
I've been meaning to make one for some time now anyways.
One. You know the Zen Archer that can solo Tarrasque lol.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nix8?Zen-and-the-Art-of-Monk-Maintenance-A-Gui de
I think this is why Zen Archers are banned in his game. I'm playing a Zen Archer in mine and already at level 2 I've made both the rogue and the fighter-mage archers obselite (their words, not mine).
Summoner Spells Prepared (CL 5):
0 (at-will) Detect magic
0 (at-will) Guidance
0 (at-will) Mending
0 (at-will) Message
0 (at-will) Open/Close
0 (at-will) Read Magic
1 standard Grease (DC 14)
1 standard Enlarge x2
1 standard Mage Armor x2
2 standard Bull's Strength
2 standard Haste
Why are you preparing spells in a spont-casting class? Why do you only have two second-level spells per day when 16 Cha entitles you to a third, bonus spell slot?
I think this is why Zen Archers are banned in his game. I'm playing a Zen Archer in mine and already at level 2 I've made both the rogue and the fighter-mage archers obselite (their words, not mine).How do archers of other classes stack up against the Rann brothers?Zen archer monk does more damage with WAY better saves and better acIf you can give me the general break down for the optimal zen archer build, then I will put it to sheet along with the Rann brothers.
I've been meaning to make one for some time now anyways.
One. You know the Zen Archer that can solo Tarrasque lol.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nix8?Zen-and-the-Art-of-Monk-Maintenance-A-Gui de
From what I have read, it looks like all the rules check out. I have to read into it a little more. I think what makes it so powerful is level 17 and the ability to apply stunning fists/quivering palms to his arrows.
It's the flurry that does it really. At level 1 I could fire twice like a fighter, and then take an AoO when somebody tries to move past me with my bow out. Once I hit level 2 I got better at shooting thanks to weapon focus, and had no problems firing into melee. Perfect Shot is a lifesaver at times. Now that I'm level 3 my attack bonus has literally doubled. I now have Deadly Aim and Point-Blank Master, and it all just goes uphill from there.
End game, Flurry allows 7 attacks per round. Manyshot + Rapid Shot only allow 6 if memory serves right. Not to mention i got that extra ki for an 8th shot and I get attacks of op on anyone in my bow's range (subject to interpretation).
As I told my DM, all I got is one trick, but I do that trick really really well.
See Bows Range is like 110 ft. I figured it would be like the snap shot/improved snap shot feats. Having attacks on opportunity on anyone who moves within 110 feet of you is a little too broken. Lol.
See Bows Range is like 110 ft. I figured it would be like the snap shot/improved snap shot feats. Having attacks on opportunity on anyone who moves within 110 feet of you is a little too broken. Lol.
This could very much be the case. I just read it as written:
Reflexive Shot (Ex)
At 9th level, a zen archer can make attacks of opportunity with arrows from his bow. The monk still threatens squares he could reach with unarmed strikes, and can still only make one attack of opportunity per round (unless he has Combat Reflexes).
he only threatens squares he can reach with unarmed strikes. Which means when his arrows are considered unarmed strikes, he can prob get away with it. Otherwise he only threatens 5 feat with the bow.
for the original poster....
I would suggest re-arranging stats a bit to pump up your str. As a fighter archer, your job is dmg. Pumping str will add your modifier with any comp longbow. With full BAB, starting dex of 18 will be fine. While your not going to be in melee very often, drop con to 12. again pumping str. Looks like this with a 25 point buy
Str = 17
Dex = 18 (16 + 2 racial)
Con = 14 (12 + 2 racial)
Int = 12
Wis = 10
Cha = 8
- suggest putting 4th lvl stat boost on str for a +4 mod
Comparing this to your posted build:
1. You trade a +1 to ranged attacks (21 dex) for an additional +2 dam with EVERY arrow.
2. You also get an additional skill each lvl, which isn't much, but to an already skill starved class, every point counts. This will help let you do something out of combat as well.
3. With the str mod, you can easily switch to a melee weapon, if you can't 5' step, are stuck in a threatening reach enemy, or in close quarters.
4. Archtype: Archer is much better in theory than in practice with the ranged combat manuevers. Feel free to stick with straight fighter. Bravery will help make up for the low wis (will save). Weapon training vs Expert archer; lets you add other weapon groups AND increases bow vs bow only.
Just a suggestion
Also, One, the zen archer isn't 100% that. There are a few interpretations the author takes liberties with, to get a feat to work out the way it does. There is a thread, called beastmass: min ma challenge or something. In there, besides other level 20 powerhouse builds, they dissect ONE, and show the issues with the build. There aren't many, but the very few it has, make a few differences in perceived power.
As for stepping on other archers toes, 3 archers in 1 group? In any game I played, the Dm has limited the archers, so at most 2 would occur. But your group has 3, one is a sneak attack archer- rogue, the other damage/combat utility- fighter mage. The zen archer will definitely overshadow these two builds. The rogue, if they dislike the overshadow, should try to use stealth to go around the enemy, to cut them off. The zen archer can do this too, just not as stealthy (as a dedicated stealth character might be).
A possible way to help not overshadow those two archers, perhaps cut back on your flurry. Use the monks quickness to move around the field. making you a moving target, so that he enemy tries to pin you down, while you are shooting arrows at them. This in turn will give your allies a chance to hunt down the enemy, while they are a bit distracted.
To deal with spells like fickle winds, just get a ring of greater dispel magic. This way you can use it for more than just one particular spell.
Why are you preparing spells in a spont-casting class? Why do you only have two second-level spells per day when 16 Cha entitles you to a third, bonus spell slot?Summoner Spells Prepared (CL 5):
0 (at-will) Detect magic
0 (at-will) Guidance
0 (at-will) Mending
0 (at-will) Message
0 (at-will) Open/Close
0 (at-will) Read Magic
1 standard Grease (DC 14)
1 standard Enlarge x2
1 standard Mage Armor x2
2 standard Bull's Strength
2 standard Haste
Those are not spells that are prepared, but rather how I normally would spend my spells in a 3 - 4 encounter per day only casting these when we are not overwhelming naturally.
I thought I included an additional Haste.
But yeah. That summoner spells prepared was a mistake of my brain. That is all.
Best archer I've seen/played is a Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight X.
As much as others are down on it, i still like Arcane Archer for the flexibility and utility it brings to an archer. Gravity Bow, True Strike, Spiderclimb, Fly, etc... all very useful to an archer. Personally, I think a well built AA can beat a straight fighter. Again, thats not even touching EK.
What about regular summoner archer? Double archery FTW. Not only that, you can cast haste yourself and your eidolon can immediately make use of the haste.
5 arrows per round between the two of you at level 5 if you give your eidolon precise instead of rapid. At 6 your eidolon could pick up rapid shot, for 6 arrows per round. You can also pick up arcane strike and your eidolon can pick up deadly aim.